o.o Other M's Narration isn't worse than the other games

Snotnarok

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It wasn't just shitty monologues that made Other M bad, it was a number of things like having her freak out at the sight of Ridley, you know the guy she's killed FIVE TIMES already and she freaked out like it was the first time she's ever seen him.

Yet in Zero Mission, they show she's scared but she fights on, why? Because she's trained to fight so she does just that. Not fall apart crying in fear like the cliche Team Ninja thinks she is.
 

JediMB

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hazabaza1 said:
Maybe it was her shit voice acting. That seems to make people hate her.
I would say it's a combination of Sakamoto's bad writing... and Sakamoto's terribad voice direction.

Jessica Martin is actually a pretty decent voice actress from what I've heard elsewhere. She was just instructed to speak in a manner completely devoid of emotion. Sort of like how George Lucas pulled down Hayden Christensen's acting.
 
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Grygor said:
Daystar Clarion said:
I'm pretty sure that if Jennifer Hale had done the VA for Samus, instead of some monotone nobody, it wouldn't have been so bad.
I wouldn't be so sure about that - anyone in theater or film will tell you that good acting cannot save bad writing.
Well, it would have still sucked, but it wouldn't have sucked as bad.
 

JediMB

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Snotnarok said:
Yet in Zero Mission, they show she's scared but she fights on, why? Because she's trained to fight so she does just that. Not fall apart crying in fear like the cliche Team Ninja thinks she is.
Team Ninja were responsible for the game engine and mechanics. Please don't blame them for Sakamoto's terrible writing.
 

Snotnarok

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JediMB said:
Snotnarok said:
Yet in Zero Mission, they show she's scared but she fights on, why? Because she's trained to fight so she does just that. Not fall apart crying in fear like the cliche Team Ninja thinks she is.
Team Ninja were responsible for the game engine and mechanics. Please don't blame them for Sakamoto's terrible writing.
So I should blame them for Samus snot green armor or sexified Zero Suit? Don't get me wrong I played the game, and beat it and I couldn't sell it fast enough. But fair enough Team Ninjas not at fault for that.
 

SpartanBlackman

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I know a lot about Metroid. Something that very few people know about Metroid is that it had a official, canon manga series. It spanned from before Zero mission, to the end of the first game.
Now, in this, Samus goes and fights Ridley, breaks down and cries.
Years later, She fights him again, overcomes her fears and destroys him.
That is the reason I hate Other M.
It made Samus into a crybaby, when everything else in all the other media said she was a bad-ass.
 

JediMB

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Snotnarok said:
JediMB said:
Snotnarok said:
Yet in Zero Mission, they show she's scared but she fights on, why? Because she's trained to fight so she does just that. Not fall apart crying in fear like the cliche Team Ninja thinks she is.
Team Ninja were responsible for the game engine and mechanics. Please don't blame them for Sakamoto's terrible writing.
So I should blame them for Samus snot green armor or sexified Zero Suit? Don't get me wrong I played the game, and beat it and I couldn't sell it fast enough. But fair enough Team Ninjas not at fault for that.
Personally I don't mind the armor color, although it certainly couldn't have made it into the game without Sakamoto and Nintendo's approval, but... the Zero Suit being sexified for Other M? Seriously?

I've loathed the damn Zero Suit since it was introduced in Zero Mission. It's ugly, and it's always been an obvious device to pull Samus out of her armor and into something that would show off her figure. To me, nothing done in Other M in the suit department was worse than the unlockable art in Zero Mission, and... well, any visual issues with cutscenes would probably be D-Rockets' fault anyway.

I played the game, enjoyed the actual gameplay (thanks, Team Ninja), but grew to despise the writing and overall production/direction as I spent more time thinking and talking about it. I'm keeping my copy on the shelf, though.
 

Naeras

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I don't think there's much to be said that Extra Credits and Zero Punctuation hasn't said on this already. The writing itself is terrible, but the delivery of the story manages to be even worse than that. I mean, it's like what they did with Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader in the Star Wars prequels. Only worse.
 

Snotnarok

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JediMB said:
Snotnarok said:
JediMB said:
Snotnarok said:
Yet in Zero Mission, they show she's scared but she fights on, why? Because she's trained to fight so she does just that. Not fall apart crying in fear like the cliche Team Ninja thinks she is.
Team Ninja were responsible for the game engine and mechanics. Please don't blame them for Sakamoto's terrible writing.
So I should blame them for Samus snot green armor or sexified Zero Suit? Don't get me wrong I played the game, and beat it and I couldn't sell it fast enough. But fair enough Team Ninjas not at fault for that.
Personally I don't mind the armor color, although it certainly couldn't have made it into the game without Sakamoto and Nintendo's approval, but... the Zero Suit being sexified for Other M? Seriously?

I've loathed the damn Zero Suit since it was introduced in Zero Mission. It's ugly, and it's always been an obvious device to pull Samus out of her armor and into something that would show off her figure. To me, nothing done in Other M in the suit department was worse than the unlockable art in Zero Mission, and... well, any visual issues with cutscenes would probably be D-Rockets' fault anyway.

I played the game, enjoyed the actual gameplay (thanks, Team Ninja), but grew to despise the writing and overall production/direction as I spent more time thinking and talking about it. I'm keeping my copy on the shelf, though.
While I get the Zero suit was basically for sex appeal it made a bit of sense to dress light when you're going to be walking around in power armor all day. And it covered more than Samuses armor in Super Metroid if you recall. However in other M they added heels to it (which in the original concept art the artist made it clear to "do NOT give the heel too much height!") and showed her off in the suit every chance they got while in Zero Mission it was more about, she took her armor off and she got shot down and lost her suit so that at least made sense and trying to highlight how defenseless she was(though still very capable).

All the more highlighted by when she got her armor back she went on a rampage in the pirate ship. And other than that it appeared only at the end of the games with 100% completion, so it was not supposed to be a focus.

So uh, I think my point in there (somewhere) was: it's not bloody casual wear it's just something to wear IN the armor and they were waving it about too much.
 

TheDooD

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Naeras said:
I don't think there's much to be said that Extra Credits and Zero Punctuation hasn't said on this already. The writing itself is terrible, but the delivery of the story manages to be even worse than that. I mean, it's like what they did with Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader in the Star Wars prequels. Only worse.
Pretty much this all the way. They took something people grew up with and could pretty much relate to, hell identify with and fliped the script to try to modernize it. It's still pretty funny now SWTOR, KOTOR 1 & 2. Feel more true to the movies then the movies themselves. It's pretty much the same with Samus being a silent protagonist was when she was at her best. Also the fact that you only get to she her body is only for being an elite player that can beat the game the fastest minimum time with getting a certain amount of items.
 

Atmos Duality

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This is part of sometimes how the "Book is better than the movie".
In the absence of spoon-fed deliveries, the imagination can produce inflections and characterizations that are more suitable for the audience.

Tangentially: A big part of what makes quality acting (including voice-acting) so damned difficult to do revolves around this sort of psychology. Speech intones can be as important as body language in portraying a character; it's not merely enough to deliver the lines.

As it relates to Other M, this is precisely the game pissed me off. Samus didn't come across as as confident, authoritative and (perhaps even socially distant, as her career has been done almost entirely solo) intelligent bounty hunter, but a weak, simpering wannabe daddy's-girl.

In comparison, Metroid Fusion's text-only dialog can be interpreted to a degree: Reflective, ponderous, cold/logical, perhaps even wistful.

And of course, Fusion lacks many other overtly stupid things that were present in Other M.
Such as glaring character contradictions, and half-baked foreshadowing scenes.
 

Cain_Zeros

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Daystar Clarion said:
I'm pretty sure that if Jennifer Hale had done the VA for Samus, instead of some monotone nobody, it wouldn't have been so bad.
And why the hell didn't she? She did what little there was in the Metroid Prime games. I mean, the writing itself still would've been bad, but it would've been bad and well acted.
 
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Cain_Zeros said:
Daystar Clarion said:
I'm pretty sure that if Jennifer Hale had done the VA for Samus, instead of some monotone nobody, it wouldn't have been so bad.
And why the hell didn't she? She did what little there was in the Metroid Prime games. I mean, the writing itself still would've been bad, but it would've been bad and well acted.
That's what always bugged me.

Apparently the female voice actress is good enough for sounds of extertion but not for a fully voiced Samus.

'Tis a strange world we live in.
 

Vault101

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ehhhh..from what I have heard they didnt do samuses charachter very well

now dont get me wrong, the Idea of her speaking/having a personality isnt out of the question..but you have to do it RIGHT
 

ReinWeisserRitter

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If you'd noticed, few people complain about the narration. They complain about the delivery, as in, the acting, the portrayal of the characters, and so forth. People can drone all they want about how much more cinematic and engaging elaborate movie scenes and voiced dialogue make a video game, but plainly and simply, it's a lot easier to fuck up, and the vast majority of video games, if not absolutely all of them, do so in some way.

In my opinion, what few attempts at plot Metroid had previously made were generally good, because they weren't elaborate; we typically got a limited perspective from a character that was surprisingly introverted and thoughtful, but also generally light on words. We were allowed to get in Samus' head, but only so far as to make us wonder more about what motivated and drove her. What was more important, more immediate, were her surroundings, the conflict she faced, and when that conflict was front and center, Samus was all action; any wonderings or hesitation at that point were contributed by the player. I felt it worked in the context of the games, and for the most part, all it was was text on a screen over a few stills.

Something video games as an industry have lost is realization that high production values are not what makes good, engaging video games; it's the presentation of the concept, the ability to grip the player and make them feel like they're a part of the adventure. Imagination still has a place in this industry, because if it can get our minds working on their own, we're engaged in the experience. The harder developers try to impress us, the more they serve to take us out of the experience. Video games rarely feel "natural" anymore; you can tell it's trying to get a reaction out of you. This is a bigger rant than this game, certainly, but it's still related to it: Metroid M's biggest failure was ultimately that it took us out of the game with its shallow attempts to impress us. It wasn't something the series needed, and indeed, it isn't something most games need.
 

Cain_Zeros

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Daystar Clarion said:
Cain_Zeros said:
Daystar Clarion said:
I'm pretty sure that if Jennifer Hale had done the VA for Samus, instead of some monotone nobody, it wouldn't have been so bad.
And why the hell didn't she? She did what little there was in the Metroid Prime games. I mean, the writing itself still would've been bad, but it would've been bad and well acted.
That's what always bugged me.

Apparently the female voice actress is good enough for sounds of extertion but not for a fully voiced Samus.

'Tis a strange world we live in.
Strange world indeed.
 

Torrasque

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For me, I started playing Metroid with the Primes. The thing about the Prime games, is that Samus has absolutely no personality in the games. She may grunt and gasp at times, but she does not say anything or project her personality in any ways. Since the Primes were so successful, I think it would be safe to say that a lot of people say "this is Samus" and point to the Primes. The problem with that, is her "personality" is something that you project on her, she does absolutely nothing about it.
The games that DO have her saying stuff, are very few. I've played MOM, Fusion, and the first Metroid, and MOM and Fusion are the only ones I've seen where she says anything. So technically speaking, Samus' personality should be derived from those two games. Disregarding MOM because of how incredibly unlikelable she is, I just have Fusion to go on. In Fusion, I actually liked her; she wasn't exactly what I pictured from the Primes, but was pretty close. Yes she followed orders, but she also defied orders and did things how she saw fit. In the Primes you get no orders at all besides nav points and the general direction giving in Prime 2 and 3, thats probably why people seem to think that Fusion and MOM hold your hand.
The Samus that I thought I knew as a very strong very independant character was ruined by MOM, but redeemed by Fusion. I don't get that whiney tone that you do by playing Fusion. Maybe because I have played the Primes to death, or maybe because I refuse to believe that my favorite female protagonist is a whiney *****. Either way, I'd suggest either hearing Sigourney Weaver talk for a while then play Fusion, or play the Primes more.
 

Torrasque

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ReinWeisserRitter said:
If you'd noticed, few people complain about the narration. They complain about the delivery, as in, the acting, the portrayal of the characters, and so forth. People can drone all they want about how much more cinematic and engaging elaborate movie scenes and voiced dialogue make a video game, but plainly and simply, it's a lot easier to fuck up, and the vast majority of video games, if not absolutely all of them, do so in some way.

In my opinion, what few attempts at plot Metroid had previously made were generally good, because they weren't elaborate; we typically got a limited perspective from a character that was surprisingly introverted and thoughtful, but also generally light on words. We were allowed to get in Samus' head, but only so far as to make us wonder more about what motivated and drove her. What was more important, more immediate, were her surroundings, the conflict she faced, and when that conflict was front and center, Samus was all action; any wonderings or hesitation at that point were contributed by the player. I felt it worked in the context of the games, and for the most part, all it was was text on a screen over a few stills.

Something video games as an industry have lost is realization that high production values are not what makes good, engaging video games; it's the presentation of the concept, the ability to grip the player and make them feel like they're a part of the adventure. Imagination still has a place in this industry, because if it can get our minds working on their own, we're engaged in the experience. The harder developers try to impress us, the more they serve to take us out of the experience. Video games rarely feel "natural" anymore; you can tell it's trying to get a reaction out of you. This is a bigger rant than this game, certainly, but it's still related to it: Metroid M's biggest failure was ultimately that it took us out of the game with its shallow attempts to impress us. It wasn't something the series needed, and indeed, it isn't something most games need.
Man, I don't see why I bother posting at all today... People keep saying what I would like to say, but better!
Well said sir, I agree entirely.