Obama Announces Educational Game Challenge

[Marmooset]

"America needs more mathematicians, scientists and engineers..." - You want more math, science and engineering graduates? Then make a game to inspire them to learn not to teach them whilst they play!

I'm thinking they want the future scientists, etc., to come out of the ranks of the contestants, not so much the players. If the game happens to do that as well, much the better.

 

[Dogstreet]

*Scuttles off to look up 'Oregon Trail'*...

 

[strum4h]

Obviously he never played Little Big Planet or GarrysMod.

 

[Lightslei]

Calling it an 'Educational Game' is a huge mistake IMHO... when has such a game ever been considered fun? Nobody wants to play a game where they have to stop to work out Maths problems or only progress if they can name a particular historic figure.

"America needs more mathematicians, scientists and engineers..." - You want more math, science and engineering graduates? Then make a game to inspire them to learn not to teach them whilst they play!

I'm sure movies/TV series have influenced waaay more people in their career choices than any 'Educational Video' so why shouldn't a purely recreational game inspire someone into a particular career?

.. having said all of that I look forward to seeing what come out of it!

Oregon Trail.


Secondly...everyone seems to be getting bogged down in semantics, yes, that's the name of the competition, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a game designed to teach Math has to be a series of Math puzzles interspersed with other gameplay. I would hope that the Designers would get creative, with the puzzles integrated fully into the game and not simply a blatant 'please answer what 20 x 5 is to continue'.

Zoombinis
Clue Finders

So I guess those are examples on how to make it not-so-blatant.

 

[TehIrishSoap]

Couldn't You Argue That COD And GTA Are Teaching Kids Good Things? XD

 

[phoenix352]

Couldn't You Argue That COD And GTA Are Teaching Kids Good Things? XD

you mean how to efficiently and accurately distribute bullets into other human beings?
id argue bad company teaches people to work better as a team but hell....

 

[Dastardly]

The reason we have fewer people interested in math and science careers isn't because math and science need to be "more fun." It's because people need to be less dependent on "fun" to motivate them to DO things.

Our students have a ridiculously low tolerance for discomfort. Something doesn't even have to be boring, it just has to be "NOT a game," and kid shut down. But what's worse is that we let them, by making excuses.

Do I WANT to pay my light bill? No. Is it FUN? No. But I do it, and I do it on time, because I like having electricity at my house, and that's what I NEED to do to keep it. Trace it back into my childhood, and you can find the source of that simple (but strangely absent) work ethic: I didn't WANT to take out the trash, and it wasn't FUN, but I liked getting paid an allowance and being able to do things, and the chores were what I had to do to earn them.

You want kids to learn math and science? Make them learn it. And if they don't, hold them at that grade level until they do. You're not learning math or science because they're FUN. You're learning them because the thought processes they develop are critical to being more than just a mindless drone for the rest of your life.

And not everyone can be a god-damned pro-Athlete or singer.

 

[shaboinkin]

Make a video game that will teach me programming and ill be happy

 

[phoenix352]

The reason we have fewer people interested in math and science careers isn't because math and science need to be "more fun." It's because people need to be less dependent on "fun" to motivate them to DO things.

Our students have a ridiculously low tolerance for discomfort. Something doesn't even have to be boring, it just has to be "NOT a game," and kid shut down. But what's worse is that we let them, by making excuses.

Do I WANT to pay my light bill? No. Is it FUN? No. But I do it, and I do it on time, because I like having electricity at my house, and that's what I NEED to do to keep it. Trace it back into my childhood, and you can find the source of that simple (but strangely absent) work ethic: I didn't WANT to take out the trash, and it wasn't FUN, but I liked getting paid an allowance and being able to do things, and the chores were what I had to do to earn them.

You want kids to learn math and science? Make them learn it. And if they don't, hold them at that grade level until they do. You're not learning math or science because they're FUN. You're learning them because the thought processes they develop are critical to being more than just a mindless drone for the rest of your life.

And not everyone can be a god-damned pro-Athlete or singer.

so your saying kids cant choose if they want to learn something now we need to force that on them? that's the easy way of making kids hate science and math all together. people wont do something simply because its needed, paying your bills isnt fun but you do it to get something in return ie electricity or water but if they learn science but never use it in life nothing good came out of it. motivating people is the key to making them work for it, better games are a way to do so, and the low discomfort comes with the higher technology and not simply because we allow it to be. 40 years ago people tolerated these things because that was the only option available. not because parents and school were strict.

 

[dawdarsd]

While a good idea, Obama should challenge the major publishers into making a good game that is also educational.

educational games suck, i wanna rot my brains out while killing brutish,badass,intimidating - looking aliens

 

[phoenix352]

While a good idea, Obama should challenge the major publishers into making a good game that is also educational.

educational games suck, i wanna rot my brains out while killing brutish,badass,intimidating - looking aliens

i beg to differ most educational games suck but when they are done right they become good games with extra value.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

I disagree with so much that you do, Mr President. But for this, I can only applaud you.

Excellent idea to reinvigorate these subjects.

 

[2xDouble]

Seriously, guys... go watch Extra Credits' youtube days.
let me help you:

 

[Dastardly]

so your saying kids cant choose if they want to learn something now we need to force that on them? that's the easy way of making kids hate science and math all together. people wont do something simply because its needed, paying your bills isnt fun but you do it to get something in return ie electricity or water but if they learn science but never use it in life nothing good came out of it. motivating people is the key to making them work for it, better games are a way to do so, and the low discomfort comes with the higher technology and not simply because we allow it to be. 40 years ago people tolerated these things because that was the only option available. not because parents and school were strict.

Yes, I'm saying kids don't get the choice. Because they're KIDS. They haven't been out into the real world, and they can't make an informed decision on what they will or will not need out there.

You make the mistake of saying that simply because I don't agree with the "make learning fun" overdose that I'm saying motivation isn't an issue. I'm saying that we need to be sure about WHAT behaviors we're motivating, and how that motivation impacts FUTURE expectations.

Most of the time, learning is NOT fun. What you can DO with that learning might be. For instance, learning to play an instrument requires hours of practice and hard work--these are, for the majority of folks, not fun. But being able to PLAY the instrument is fun. The work and learning are the cost of the fun, and they come first.

When we take that part out of the process, making it fun, we ruin learning. Sure, we get a short-term burst of interest because of the novelty of the game... but then when they get to a level at which there IS no game? Or when they get to work and find out that there is no game, and that it's most often NOT fun? It's better to use TRUE motivation and TRUE teaching than this instant-results method that only lasts until the next test.

Our methods are what need refinement. I agree that most of the science/math curriculum presents information that 99% of people don't use beyond high school. The quadratic formula is useless to most people in the world, yet we believe every 8th grader should know it. That IS a problem, I agree. Our curriculum is currently a mile wide and an inch deep, and as a result teachers can't teach it the way they know they should.

Learning math and science isn't just about learning the content in the book. It's about learning how to THINK mathematically and how to THINK scientifically. Kids do not want to do these things in and of themselves, but they will need these skills to succeed in life. The answer isn't "make them fun." It's "make them USEFUL."

If you want someone to have a skill, you can take two approaches:

1) Bait them with treats. You'll get a superficial interest, bare minimum effort, and a gradual erosion of self-motivation... but that only comes later on, so you don't have to take the blame for it.

2) Put them in situations that DEMAND they have those skills. And then show them how to get them. Learning this way is UNCOMFORTABLE, because it forces us to stand face-to-face with things we don't know and can't do yet. But then it teaches us to SOLVE that problem.

The most important thing kids need to be learning is how to do a good job at whatever they're doing, WHETHER THEY FEEL LIKE IT OR NOT. Once a person learns that, life gets so much easier AND they get to have more fun as a result, because they'll be able to meet all the needs that could get in the way of that.

 

[Lightslei]

Make a video game that will teach me programming and ill be happy

With the problem that, that's practically impossible. Programming for what? Games, web pages, console applications?

I mean think of the list of languages there are: C, C++, VB, ASM, EXSE, Python, C-Sharp, HTML, XHTML, Java, Javascript.

And there's probably more. Besides how would you make a game that explains something like:

title Generic (Generic.asm)
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;The purpose of this program is to confuse a forum.						;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

.model small;Establishes the maximum size of space allowed.

.stack 100h;Allocates 256 (decimal), or 100 (hexadecimal) for use.

.data
message1 db "Can you understand this?", 0dh, 0ah, '$'

.code
main proc
mov ax, @data	;Establishes the data segment
mov ds,ax	

mov ah,9	;Print procedure is called
mov dx, offset message1;address of first string to print
int 21h		;execute interrupt 21

main endp

END main

 

[phoenix352]

so your saying kids cant choose if they want to learn something now we need to force that on them? that's the easy way of making kids hate science and math all together. people wont do something simply because its needed, paying your bills isnt fun but you do it to get something in return ie electricity or water but if they learn science but never use it in life nothing good came out of it. motivating people is the key to making them work for it, better games are a way to do so, and the low discomfort comes with the higher technology and not simply because we allow it to be. 40 years ago people tolerated these things because that was the only option available. not because parents and school were strict.

Yes, I'm saying kids don't get the choice. Because they're KIDS. They haven't been out into the real world, and they can't make an informed decision on what they will or will not need out there.

You make the mistake of saying that simply because I don't agree with the "make learning fun" overdose that I'm saying motivation isn't an issue. I'm saying that we need to be sure about WHAT behaviors we're motivating, and how that motivation impacts FUTURE expectations.

Most of the time, learning is NOT fun. What you can DO with that learning might be. For instance, learning to play an instrument requires hours of practice and hard work--these are, for the majority of folks, not fun. But being able to PLAY the instrument is fun. The work and learning are the cost of the fun, and they come first.

When we take that part out of the process, making it fun, we ruin learning. Sure, we get a short-term burst of interest because of the novelty of the game... but then when they get to a level at which there IS no game? Or when they get to work and find out that there is no game, and that it's most often NOT fun? It's better to use TRUE motivation and TRUE teaching than this instant-results method that only lasts until the next test.

Our methods are what need refinement. I agree that most of the science/math curriculum presents information that 99% of people don't use beyond high school. The quadratic formula is useless to most people in the world, yet we believe every 8th grader should know it. That IS a problem, I agree. Our curriculum is currently a mile wide and an inch deep, and as a result teachers can't teach it the way they know they should.

Learning math and science isn't just about learning the content in the book. It's about learning how to THINK mathematically and how to THINK scientifically. Kids do not want to do these things in and of themselves, but they will need these skills to succeed in life. The answer isn't "make them fun." It's "make them USEFUL."

If you want someone to have a skill, you can take two approaches:

1) Bait them with treats. You'll get a superficial interest, bare minimum effort, and a gradual erosion of self-motivation... but that only comes later on, so you don't have to take the blame for it.

2) Put them in situations that DEMAND they have those skills. And then show them how to get them. Learning this way is UNCOMFORTABLE, because it forces us to stand face-to-face with things we don't know and can't do yet. But then it teaches us to SOLVE that problem.

The most important thing kids need to be learning is how to do a good job at whatever they're doing, WHETHER THEY FEEL LIKE IT OR NOT. Once a person learns that, life gets so much easier AND they get to have more fun as a result, because they'll be able to meet all the needs that could get in the way of that.

you make a fair point my good man/woman.
i agree with it but i still think there is a way to combine the game part without undermining the learning bits.any regular game teaches people to solve small problems that they don't even think about twice anymore. there is hope in mixing the two.

 

[cobrausn]

They should all make games about fiscal responsibility. And then it should become mandatory for all politicians to play it. Every day.

 

[shaboinkin]

Make a video game that will teach me programming and ill be happy

With the problem that, that's practically impossible. Programming for what? Games, web pages, console applications?

I mean think of the list of languages there are: C, C++, VB, ASM, EXSE, Python, C-Sharp, HTML, XHTML, Java, Javascript.

And there's probably more. Besides how would you make a game that explains something like:

title Generic (Generic.asm)
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;The purpose of this program is to confuse a forum.						;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

.model small;Establishes the maximum size of space allowed.

.stack 100h;Allocates 256 (decimal), or 100 (hexadecimal) for use.

.data
message1 db "Can you understand this?", 0dh, 0ah, '$'

.code
main proc
mov ax, @data	;Establishes the data segment
mov ds,ax	

mov ah,9	;Print procedure is called
mov dx, offset message1;address of first string to print
int 21h		;execute interrupt 21

main endp

END main

You do have a point kind sir. That would be a very confusing and boring game, if at all.