Yeah... I'm not too sure I'm comfortable with a developer like Obsidian using it, either. Definitely not a publisher, though, kind-of defeats the purpose.
Obsidian CEO: Publishers Are Trying to Sneak Into Kickstarter
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
Its the hypocrisy of OBsidian's statement that's the problem.Sartan0 said:
I don't care who uses kickstater because it does get us games we normally wouldn't get, however I take offense to someone, in this case Obsidian, acting like some people have no right to use it.
Not quite. Now, in case you don't know, the 'Project Creators' give the 'backers' rewards, depending on ow much the Backer gives. Things like a name in the credits, or maybe a t-shirt, a poster, that kind of thing. What the T&C says, at least to me, is that if the Project Creator is unable, for what ever reason, to supply the Backer with the reward they promised the Backer, then the Backer is entitled to a refund.BreakfastMan said:
At no point does it make a reference to refunds if the project goes belly-up.
I love how people are bitching and complaining about how developers are using the Kickstarter system and then there's an uproar when a Publisher tries to use it.
You lot do realise that Kickstarter is a way for a developer to create games WITHOUT having to sign over rights to the game to some faceless corperation, right? The money donated by the players is used for development and distribution of the game. I don't know if you've checked, but the amount taken isn't exactly in the multitude of millions. The developer asks for what they NEED. This isn't about massive profits. Without publisher fees and so much extra overheads, there's more money to put into the game to make it better.
Now, the rewards. Almost EVERY amount donated (in the case of video games, movies, etc) will give back to the person who donates in the form of a copy of what they're donating to. A mere $15-20, much cheaper than what you'd pay anywhere else, and you get a copy of the game you paid towards the creation of. I'd say that's a damn good deal. Also, as previously stated, if the developer cannot fulfil the reward/s offered to someone, they get a refund. I don't see how it's a bad thing toward the developers.
Now the publisher... these are people who are supposed to fund and publicise the game, and in return get to slap their name all over it, get to make changes to the game during development and even get a cut of the profits... usually far more than the developers get of the income from THEIR hard work. They now want to use this system to get gamers to chip in and pay a percentage (if not all) of the development costs, only to take part of that money for themselves and then slap their name all over the game.
Effectively, they're doing/paying little to nothing and then reaping a portion of the rewards. It's laziness and greed in its most blatant form.
THAT'S why there's such outrage at this and why it's ok for developers to use this system.
You lot do realise that Kickstarter is a way for a developer to create games WITHOUT having to sign over rights to the game to some faceless corperation, right? The money donated by the players is used for development and distribution of the game. I don't know if you've checked, but the amount taken isn't exactly in the multitude of millions. The developer asks for what they NEED. This isn't about massive profits. Without publisher fees and so much extra overheads, there's more money to put into the game to make it better.
Now, the rewards. Almost EVERY amount donated (in the case of video games, movies, etc) will give back to the person who donates in the form of a copy of what they're donating to. A mere $15-20, much cheaper than what you'd pay anywhere else, and you get a copy of the game you paid towards the creation of. I'd say that's a damn good deal. Also, as previously stated, if the developer cannot fulfil the reward/s offered to someone, they get a refund. I don't see how it's a bad thing toward the developers.
Now the publisher... these are people who are supposed to fund and publicise the game, and in return get to slap their name all over it, get to make changes to the game during development and even get a cut of the profits... usually far more than the developers get of the income from THEIR hard work. They now want to use this system to get gamers to chip in and pay a percentage (if not all) of the development costs, only to take part of that money for themselves and then slap their name all over the game.
Effectively, they're doing/paying little to nothing and then reaping a portion of the rewards. It's laziness and greed in its most blatant form.
THAT'S why there's such outrage at this and why it's ok for developers to use this system.
BECAUSE THAT IS THE PUBLISHERS JOB, IS TO FUND THE GAME. I mean really? they are taking the one big risk they have to do normally, and shifting it to customers, in turn, reaping profits for doing next to nothing while getting their name out their on a game they did next to nothing for..SajuukKhar said:
why in the hell would you want them using kickstarter/funding devs for it?
granted, if a publisher can get a developer stupid enough to sign that deal, and people are stupid enough to fund that kickstarter, than by all means, well played, they pulled off an amazing business move to reap some decent profits. not to mention, you are completely twisting the words to what he actually says, he said: "Urquhart rather generously said that he believed the requests came not from a position of evil, but one of ignorance", the publishers were trying to pull a fast one by not having to do their part, yet reap profits, how do you NOT have a problem with that?
so your telling me, you don't want the people who actually make the game, spend countless hours working on it, to reap profits from it? they have to have a starting point somewhere, not to mention they have no idea how much people might have interest in the game itself, what's the point of taking money out of your OWN pocket, paying yourself to work years on a game, and then only sell 10,000 copies?albino boo said:
excuse me, i'll get you a nice business suit and send your resume to EA and Activision, I'm sure you would fit right in there.
Most tiers of donation include at least the game (for instance, with the obsidian one, there is only one tier that does not include the game, and that is the $5 dollar one. All others do). If the project goes belly-up, the game does not get released. Ergo, they cannot fulfill a reward, ergo you get your money back.Da Orky Man said:
If a publisher manages to get a developer who used kickstarter to fund their game to publish through them, I see absolutely no problem with it.TeletubbiesGolfGun said:
It's the devloper's game, and if they want to include a publisher who didn't fund the game then good on them.
and if a publisher manages to get a kickstarter funded game to sin with them, then good on them.
Get out of here with your common sense and rational thinking and actually understanding the topic. We don't like that around here. This is for bagging on whatever was mentioned in a harsh light in the first post. Not for being reasonable.Byere said:
Also captcha: unlimited wishes. Yes, that's what I've got for Obsidian.
like i said, if they actually pull it off, hats off to them for getting that business decision to happen, however, from a consumer/developers point of view, the whole point of kickstarter is to AVOID the publisher (at least get them to not meddle with the project/deny the project from being made)SajuukKhar said:
and in turn, i would either A) not fund that kickstarter because of the developer doing as such, and probably remember them doing that in the future or B) not fund the kickstarter, but still consider the game after it's been made.
that is why people are frowning at it, more than likely the publisher would try to stick their filthy hands into it too much.
The only reason publishers get a free pass to be the thick-skulled punk bullying the little dev nerds into doing their homework is because they're rich and paying for everything.
The whole system kind of falls apart when they abandon that second part.
You can say "let's reap the profits of these guys' work because we paid for it to begin with". That's completely justified.
You can't say "let's reap the profits of these guys' work even though we contributed absolutely nothing and have no reasonable claim to the works!" That's balls-to-the-grinder lunacy.
Good on Obsidian for doing what they're doing and passing the word along.
If it were up to me, I'd sack the publishers on the charge of "Attempting to practice evil without a license."
The whole system kind of falls apart when they abandon that second part.
You can say "let's reap the profits of these guys' work because we paid for it to begin with". That's completely justified.
You can't say "let's reap the profits of these guys' work even though we contributed absolutely nothing and have no reasonable claim to the works!" That's balls-to-the-grinder lunacy.
Good on Obsidian for doing what they're doing and passing the word along.
If it were up to me, I'd sack the publishers on the charge of "Attempting to practice evil without a license."
You guys know that a variation on this has already kind of happened, right? Paizo put up a Kickstarter to help fund a Pathfinder MMO, [http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology-demo] but there's a catch. The money raised from that kickstarter is not for making a game, but rather is being used to fund a tech demo that the company will then use in hopes of attracting traditional investors. If you pledged at least $2000, you even get to play the demo.
Obsidian are a mercenary dev, they work for whoever pay them, if they start to speak shit about publisher, they just destroy chance of getting work from them.Hammeroj said:
Project Eternity is actually gonna be the first game they make of their own volition.
So, a publisher wants to own an IP, possibly make changes to it, and take most of the money from the sales, but doesn't want to actually fund it?
Wow. Pure naked greed. That's all I'm going to say. No, I don't care who's telling us this. I don't care that the obsidian CEO might or might not also be a dick. This is disgusting. The sad thing is I'm not surprised. I swear to you now that if these publishers thought they could get away with hiring bank robbers, they would do so without a second glance. Because they're assholes. Because they're greedy.
This is why they will die. This is why these publishers will go out of business and be replaced. Because they think NOTHING of trying to pull stupid shit like this. They think NOTHING of saddling the consumer with things like always online DRM and chopping up games in order to sell those parts back as DLC rather than making actual expansions. They're not going to last in this new climate. Sure, kickstarter seems small now, but when some of those projects succeed, they'll climb the ladder in notoriety until they're preferable to both publishers and investors.
Of course, there's a dark side to this, after all, not all ideas are good and not all people necessarily fund things that are risky, so there will be some stagnation, but overall this is way better than the current system, and I'd welcome it any day.
Oh, and many people on here seem to only be aware of double fine adventure, wasteland 2, and the banner saga's success on here. Well, just look at this, ok? http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-funded
That right there, that's what proved to me that kickstarter is one of the best new funding methods. Just look at all those games. You could scroll for hours! I think we could be on the edge of a new age here.
Wow. Pure naked greed. That's all I'm going to say. No, I don't care who's telling us this. I don't care that the obsidian CEO might or might not also be a dick. This is disgusting. The sad thing is I'm not surprised. I swear to you now that if these publishers thought they could get away with hiring bank robbers, they would do so without a second glance. Because they're assholes. Because they're greedy.
This is why they will die. This is why these publishers will go out of business and be replaced. Because they think NOTHING of trying to pull stupid shit like this. They think NOTHING of saddling the consumer with things like always online DRM and chopping up games in order to sell those parts back as DLC rather than making actual expansions. They're not going to last in this new climate. Sure, kickstarter seems small now, but when some of those projects succeed, they'll climb the ladder in notoriety until they're preferable to both publishers and investors.
Of course, there's a dark side to this, after all, not all ideas are good and not all people necessarily fund things that are risky, so there will be some stagnation, but overall this is way better than the current system, and I'd welcome it any day.
Oh, and many people on here seem to only be aware of double fine adventure, wasteland 2, and the banner saga's success on here. Well, just look at this, ok? http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-funded
That right there, that's what proved to me that kickstarter is one of the best new funding methods. Just look at all those games. You could scroll for hours! I think we could be on the edge of a new age here.