Obsidian Mailbag

[krellen]

But what about NWN2, which was published with Bioware's assistance? Same with KOTOR2.

Neither had BioWare's assistance. BioWare's name was on those games because they were sequels to BioWare work (and possibly built on some BioWare systems), but BioWare itself had nothing to do with them.

If you're a programmer, you will know how difficult it is to work with someone else's code, and how much more difficult it is when you don't have that person around to ask questions of.

 

[Continuity]

Experienced Points: Obsidian Mailbag

Shamus responds to the many gripes about his gripes with Obsidian and Fallout New Vegas.

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I think the problem is that you are maybe asking too much, WRPG with depth which is something Obsidian specialise in, is limping along on its last legs. Even Bioware has practically abandoned depth ( not that they were always that consistent anyway). My point is that Obsidian give us something we crave, i.e. depth, and they plainly do that at the expense of polish - I expect the reason for this is that we can't have both due to the timescales and budgets they are being set (which are notoriously tight for sequels), and of the two I opt for depth over polish every time.

So I say roll on the bugs, so long as its a great game with depth much can be forgiven (and patched )

 

[rainbowunicorns]

Well lookie' hurr boys, we got us one o' them gee-nee-uses. Gol-darn them's some fancy wordin's. I shurr wish we had one'a them eddications so we could be half as in-tee-lectual.

He was criticizing the incorrect use of a word that is not in common parlance. The use of it annoyed me too; I hate when people use uncommon words and have no idea as to their actual meaning. Just write like everyone else if you don't want to take the time to educate yourself.

 

[ksn0va]

All I can think of right now is how Obsidian put the entire franchise in a very difficult position. Because when the next game (Fallout 4 or another expansion probably) comes out, it has to be perfect. If they had ironed out 1 or 2 major flaws from FO3 then the next iteration wouldn't suffer even if it had a couple of minor issues. Which makes me really worried about Fallout.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

You're picking on Obsidian! I love their games and you're just a big mean hater-face.

I have to agree with that answer 100%. Over the past year I've probably made more posts decrying Borderlands than praising it. Based on that you would think that I hate the game, but the over 150 hours that I've sinked into it sing a different tune. I actually consider Borderlands to be among my favorite games. People need to realize that there's a fine line between someone trolling a game because it's too popular for its own good (like Halo or Final Fantasy, who's fanboys are too easy to rile-up), and someone who genuinely enjoys a game and hates seeing flaws that drag it down (especially ones that shouldn't be hard to fix); making their voice heard for that minuscule chance that a developer will see it and maybe fix things. Even if it's just for the sequel.

I believe very vehemently that as a consumer of games, it's part of my job to question whether or not a developer is giving me the best game they can be. I see these people who blindly defend a game (even its bad parts) and I picture them being happy with the developers laying a big steamer inside the jewel case and selling that as their game. I don't know, maybe they're in some sad denial where they refuse to admit maybe some of their $60 purchase was wasted money so they convince themselves that they bought the Holy Grail as some form of mental self defense... but whatever the case, it always saddens me to see how so many gamers set the bar so low by being so overly defensive even when the flaws are glaring them in the face.

If most gamers had their way, games would just get continually worse and worse and worse and they would still defend them to their dying breath. :/

 

[krellen]

That's not what Wikipedia says. Not that Wiki is infallible, but it seems reasonably accurate.

You need to re-read the wiki, then. "Technical support" doesn't mean "doing it for you", or even "helping you finish it", either of which "assistance" implies.

I do technical support for a living. There's a vast difference.

 

[FlyAwayAutumn]

Well New Vegas has worked fine for me so far, which it seems is very lucky for me.

One problem that has come up many times for me is that in first person mode my characters arms will go up and block my view.

Other than that minor problem it seems I've been very lucky in having avoided all these problems that most people have had. Yay for me!

 

[Kris015]

Actually I didn't have any problems except stuttering/lag when npcs were around (fixed it with a mod) and a couple of crashes. I must've been lucky or you are all lying! Waha hahaha ha ha ha..

 

[UnravThreads]

If Bioware is an example of a developer who makes stable games then we as gamers really need to up our expectations- they're still nowhere near as bad as Obsidian, but certainly aren't a company to hold up as a paragon in this area.

You beat me to it!

But at the same time, stability means absolutely nothing if the game is unbalanced - Just like Dragon Age. As the saying goes, I'd rather play an unpolished gem than a polished turd.

 

[Vestsao]

This only edifies one of the most prominent arguments against PC gaming. The substantial diversification in PC hardware ensures that developers have a difficult time developing games which will adequately run. You'll have a game which has a particular error with one graphics card and runs smooth as butter on another graphics card.

Edifies means informing someone in a sort of 'character-building' or 'moral' way.

Wait here, I'll google for an example...tum te tum...

Here, "Knowledge puffs up but love edifies." from Corinthians.

I couldn't find an irreligious example, it appears it has religious connotations as well

I don't think it fits here. And when one person uses a word wrong it kinda tends to spread, so I tend to pedant about it if I think they won't mind too much.

Hope you don't!

OT: Strange that people leap to the defence of a game like that. Bugs are a major issue. Titan Quest, the PC version of Juiced, really PISSED ME OFF with their constant CTD's. It's not something you can just ignore.

Thank you!

 

[pacati]

I'm surprised you read all the responses to your article. I don't know whether to applaud you for caring or to cry for you (because that must have been hell).

 

[Xianthos]

Ok then im lucky guy :-/ Besides well known questing / script / clipping bugs i didnt experience any game breaking bugs. Its ok for now day standarts, when there are a ton of buged games released.

 

[HK_01]

The thing I hated about your previous article was that for people who hadn't played the game, because you didn't say anything good, it would give them the wrong opinion that the whole game was bad.

If I remember correctly, he did hint at the fact that the game would be fun if it weren't so broken. At least I got that impression.

 

[onelifecrisis]

I just read the article. I read this column every week and the tone of this article is different to the rest. It reads like a forum post.

Shamus, you've stooped to their (my) level! Don't do that! Rise above it. Do some yoga or something.

 

[krellen]

'support and guidance' are the exact words

Which is exactly how I would describe my job.

If you watch a developer interview on KOTOR2, Feargus Urquhart says "We're doing everything, but without the work done before by BioWare it would be impossible".

In both cases - KOTOR2 and NWN2 - the engine was BioWare's, but the work done in and with it was all Obsidian. Because the engine was BioWare's, BioWare's name went on the product, even though they had nothing to do with the direct production of that title. That's how the software world works.

 

[mr_rubino]

Double-postey.

 

[mr_rubino]

" I want to see Obsidian deliver a top-notch game that's not infested with bugs and glitches. This is simply not going to happen as long as gamers continue to accept sub-standard quality and make excuses for them."

You're still completely missing the point, Shamus. Very brave to dismiss any substantive point made against your misplaced rant, as well. Calling it angry fanboyish noise also was so very respectful.

Thing is that the console and gaming press is constantly ignoring huge bugs and gameplay problems from large commercial games. Mafia 2 - not a word. Red Dead - not a mention. Bethesda's Fallout 3, on the same engine - few mentioned bugs in their initial write-ups. And the escapist is no better. This is nothing new, and something that has been pointed out many, many times before.

But when Obsidian makes a game, there's no end to the kind of criticism coming up. And you fail to account for why that is - either by actually describing the bugs specifically, or by perhaps drawing up some guidelines for what type of gameplay bugs reviews easily could note in the future.

If you don't do that, then this simply comes off as the usual console-magazine appetite for internet drama, and nothing more, Shamus. Frankly, it's the least you can do when the entire point with the article was to make a larger point about the industry.

So I'll make a bet with you now - the next time any of the larger and well backed developers make a game, the escapist won't mention a single bug. And they will also not note that this game - in a first in the industry - has absolutely no bugs, clipping errors, visual artefacts, or otherwise things that will be tortured to fit the definition for the occasion.

Care to bet against me on that..?

More persecution complex from the PC gaming community. Gotta do something to justifying buying an unfinished product from a company that continues putting out such, I guess. Yes just keep your chest puffed up like that. And maybe if we keep feeding them money, they'll change sometime soon.

Your argument in a nutshell: "*points* Look over there. *points elsewhere* Now look over there. *points another direction* There too. Why won't you address things that are not part of what you were writing about?! And I demand a thorough explanation of the same handful of so-called game-breaking bugs everyone has been reporting from this game, because I don't think I believe you, Mister Man!!! SHOW ME A PERFECT GAME OR SHUT YOUR DAMNED MOUTH-HOLE AND STOP BEING A MEANIE BY POINTING OUT NV'S FLAWS AS IF YOU'RE A GAME CRITIC OR SOMETHING, PUNY HUMAN!!! YOU WILL FIGHT ME ON MY TERMS!!!"

 

[kouriichi]

Im one of those people who say "it worked for me".

Why? Because it did. Infact, ive modded the game to hell and back now. I probably have 30 or 40 mods loaded up and running at once. And its still smooth and bug free.

And if there are any bugs i would notice, i forget about them. yes, the radscorpion is sticking halfway in the ground. So shoot it and move on, its not like its worth any less xp.

I even went through a list of bugs ((thank you fallout wiki for having many listed)) and went looking for bugs! I wanted to see if i could locate even a few of the list. I ended up finding one, and it crashed my game.

You know what? I reloaded my save, tried it again, and it worked fine. It was a one time fluke i forgot about minutes later, and never complained about.

Your "gripes" are just that. Petty gripes. Your letting minor bugs get under your skin. Infact, half the bugs ive seen in videos or such, i find comical, and wish HAD happened to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKIkw3LIoQ
^ Is that a bug, or the coolest doctor in a game ever? ^

Yes theres bugs. But you can ignore them. Or put the game on hold for a week until it gets patched. Or go play Fable 3 until they patch New Vegas. Or take a vacation with your family. Or pull some overtime for some extra cash so you can get your kid a better christmas gift.

Your words were "So, everyone knows about this so we ... shouldn't discuss it?".
But really, you wernt descussing it. You were complaining about it. Not a single person i know complained about bugs in NV. Maybe they commented about a random crash, or laughed because a Death claw was moon walking at him, but they never complained about it.