Obsidian Mailbag

[Dommyboy]

Wasn't Bethesda supposed to test NV though?

 

[Something Amyss]

You covered some of my favourite bad arguments here:

"I didn't have any problems"--I drove home drunk last night and didn't die**. Doesn't mean it's not dangerous to do so. So the question becomes, "so what?"

"Your computer sucks!"--While this can technically be true, it's thrown out as part of the fanboy defense so often it's ridiculous and hard not to roll your eyes every time someone says it. My computer does suck, for the record. If I play the game, it will be on the 360, which has bugs despite having a hardware standard.

"You didn't talk about the good things"--On top of Shamus not writing a review of the game, a game should not be talked up for doing what it's supposed to do. This is part of a larger issue with the "Illusion of Fairness."

"Bias"--People should call out bias in reporting. Even reviews are biased, because it's hard to objectively measure much more than graphics and audio. You can't measure things like "fun" completely objectively. Even things like controls are hard to measure that way.

And beyond that, Experienced Points is pretty clear about its role. He didn't even need to bring up his article's opinion nature.

"Blame the publisher"--I do. But I don't blame them solely. They should be the last line, not the first.

All said, it still brings up a big question: Why defend a broken game? Won't that beget more of the same?

My money's on yes.





**DISCLAIMER: Zachary Amaranth did not drive home drunk last night. Drinking and driving is stupid and may result in death. I don't always drink, but when I do, I never touch Dos Equis.

 

[USSR]

You're picking on Obsidian! I love their games and you're just a big mean hater-face.

I just found my new troll insult.

Thank you

 

[Vryyk]

Well lookie' hurr boys, we got us one o' them gee-nee-uses. Gol-darn them's some fancy wordin's. I shurr wish we had one'a them eddications so we could be half as in-tee-lectual.

He was criticizing the incorrect use of a word that is not in common parlance. The use of it annoyed me too; I hate when people use uncommon words and have no idea as to their actual meaning. Just write like everyone else if you don't want to take the time to educate yourself.

Whoah thar mister, yah gotta slow down fer' us simple folk. Too many o' them fancy wordin's in that thar sentence. Ima have t' get me a dic-shun-ary after I milk ol' bessie.

 

[Raptorianxd]

I love how we have become complacent with our videogames. If it even remotely runs, we will defend it, no matter how buggy, or problematic the game is, because we are more disinclined to take it the way it is than to strive for something better.

Thank you, Shamus.

-Raptor, out.

 

[Johnny Xtreme]

Regardless of platform it seems each version has a wide array of bugs. My personal favorite? The black screen of death. Not sure if it's present on the PC or PS3 versions though.

I think this problem is all across the board. I love the game, but I am tired of getting corrupt saved files.

 

[Deviluk]

Dragon Age just crashed and I lost 3-4 hours of gaming. Auto-saving, where were you?? I'm in the mood for hating on bugs right now, good on ya Shamus! Somebody has to make a fuss about these things, because most of us just except them now.

 

[Mr Smiles]

i dont know why people flame about.... flaming about bugs? GAH! new vegas was fun, i'll give it that, but buggy as hell, now, i have nothing against obsidian, or zeni, but obsidian released a buggy game, they deserve to be criticised, and yes, it may be a HUGE game with an old engine, but that's not a proper excuse, you make stuff work with what you'r given, and if you get bugger all, you make do, and they tried, they just fell a tad short. at least i got a patch to fix up a few of the worst bugs, but they should make it 95% bug free on release.

 

[Razhem]

Im one of those people who say "it worked for me".

Why? Because it did. Infact, ive modded the game to hell and back now. I probably have 30 or 40 mods loaded up and running at once. And its still smooth and bug free.

And if there are any bugs i would notice, i forget about them. yes, the radscorpion is sticking halfway in the ground. So shoot it and move on, its not like its worth any less xp.

I even went through a list of bugs ((thank you fallout wiki for having many listed)) and went looking for bugs! I wanted to see if i could locate even a few of the list. I ended up finding one, and it crashed my game.

You know what? I reloaded my save, tried it again, and it worked fine. It was a one time fluke i forgot about minutes later, and never complained about.

Your "gripes" are just that. Petty gripes. Your letting minor bugs get under your skin. Infact, half the bugs ive seen in videos or such, i find comical, and wish HAD happened to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKIkw3LIoQ
^ Is that a bug, or the coolest doctor in a game ever? ^

Yes theres bugs. But you can ignore them. Or put the game on hold for a week until it gets patched. Or go play Fable 3 until they patch New Vegas. Or take a vacation with your family. Or pull some overtime for some extra cash so you can get your kid a better christmas gift.

Your words were "So, everyone knows about this so we ... shouldn't discuss it?".
But really, you wernt descussing it. You were complaining about it. Not a single person i know complained about bugs in NV. Maybe they commented about a random crash, or laughed because a Death claw was moon walking at him, but they never complained about it.

You dind't even bother to read the article, did you? Last time I checked, your saved game imploding is not considered a "minor bug". You got lucky, go you, that doesn't change the game being a mess for other people, which from what I've heard is even more frustrating because the game itself is pretty awesome. That the game is awesome doesn't stop it from being a broken mess.

 

[John Horn]

First the topic at hand. I pre-ordered Fallout New Vegas - silly old me. I'll never make that mistake of trusting Bethesda or Obsidian again. They've burned be before.
I have a brand new computer (just 3 weeks old). Built it myself into an Antec Nine Hundred Two cabinet.
Motherboard: Asus P6X58D-E
CPU: Core i7 950 3.06Ghz
GPU: Asus ENGTX480 (Geforce GTX 480)
RAM: Corsair Dominator 6gb ram
SSD: 120gb OCZ Vertex (not using the old magnetic disc HDD dinosaurs any more)
BRW: LG Bluray burner
PSU: Seasonic M12 700W
I have all the latest drivers installed. Latest DirectX.
All other games work nigh on perfectly.

In the game, I press New Game. Upon finishing the introduction video to FNV, I am immediately greeted by "Fallout_NV.EXE has stopped working." Classic CTD.

After 4 days of playing other non-broken games while waiting for a response/patch from Bethesda/Obsidian, I start researching. Apparently I have to use a DLL file that was made by some fan in 2008 for Fallout 3. d3d9.dll - you place it in the FNV directory.
When the game starts - it tells me it's readjusted my graphics settings. I look into the Options, and I notice that FNV now believes my GPU is a GeForce 7900GS. Clever little ID spoofing trick done by this dll. The game suddenly works pretty well, although it runs an inferior shader model for DirectX 9 - so the graphics look like clay poo. I don't mind that. I just mind the fact that Bethesda has never gotten their corporate finger out of their asses and owned up to fix this problem in the 2 years that have passed since Fallout 3! They have had TWO years to fix a game breaking problem (for some) that has been circumvented by a fan-made DLL file. I think that is scandalous.

After 30.5 hours of game time, I've finished the game. It was certainly fun enough at times. Brilliant even. But I'm growing tired of the Oblivion engine and its design limitations. Does it have some other bugs? Certainly. WARNING: Spoilers ahead. It has the occasional CTD which has only occured when loading a new area. I've been lucky in that I've frequently saved. The save-game corruption issue happens specifically in the REPCONN facility mission known as "Come Fly With Me." If you're unlucky enough to have gotten that issue - all subsequent savegames will become corrupted as well. Autosaves' own worst nightmare. But I somehow manoeuvred around that problem by some strategic saving and alternate routes. There was some other bugs as well. Branching quests accumulating into branching bugs. After I dispatched Benny in The Top's - as I left the building, my accomplice "Boone" was nowhere to be found. So I thought he had skedaddled, and tried to hire another goon. But he said "you've already got company." I was annoyed, but I didn't think more about it. Until I went to see Caesar ("Render Unto Caesar"). Now is when a bug from the Benny quest piled up on top of the next (unrelated) quest. As I was approaching the camp of Caesar's Legion, I showed him my "Mark of Caesar" - giving me free passage to see Caesar. Yet, they always ended up attacking. After some researching, I learned that it's because my accomplice "Boone" had gotten bugged after the "Kill Benny" quest. He was in my party - but he wasn't there. I was apparently not alone in having this bug. I had to load back in time to BEFORE killing Benny and tell Boone that "we need to go our seperate ways." That way I don't get that bug later on. Then, Caesar's Legion at the camp no longer attacked me. I feel like I'm playing Back To The Future here. But Isn't that game some 2 months off?

Anyways, there are so many bugs in this game that it would take an entire essay to write about all of them. Don't take mine or Shamus' word for it. If you really want specifics, check the Bethesda forums, and you can read a myriad of rich bug reports. It's the buggiest game I've played in recent memory. The other being Alpha Protocol... But Alpha Protocol was a mediocre game anyhow - so it wasn't much of a loss that it was bugged.
However, when Fallout NV is this buggy - a game on the precipice of greatness - then it perturbs me greatly.

Bethesda and/or Obsidian will never get any more pre-orders from me. I'm a fool for even buying into the concept of a pre-order. Pre-orders almost guarantee that the game will be shitty upon release. They attempt to goad us into pre-ordering by offering us cheap trinkets like "special items." Corporate shareholders who are in it for the short haul must love this business model. Early bursts in the revenues and stock value, pre-empting any critical journalism which could potentially depress the stock price. This business model splits the risk faced by publishers.
I notice this trend is growing. Less emphasis will be put on Quality Assurance, and more emphasis on Marketing.

Now for something completely OT.

This only edifies one of the most prominent arguments against PC gaming. The substantial diversification in PC hardware ensures that developers have a difficult time developing games which will adequately run. You'll have a game which has a particular error with one graphics card and runs smooth as butter on another graphics card.

Edifies means informing someone in a sort of 'character-building' or 'moral' way.

Wait here, I'll google for an example...tum te tum...

Here, "Knowledge puffs up but love edifies." from Corinthians.

I couldn't find an irreligious example, it appears it has religious connotations as well

I don't think it fits here. And when one person uses a word wrong it kinda tends to spread, so I tend to pedant about it if I think they won't mind too much.

Hope you don't!

OT: Strange that people leap to the defence of a game like that. Bugs are a major issue. Titan Quest, the PC version of Juiced, really PISSED ME OFF with their constant CTD's. It's not something you can just ignore.

OT

I'm not a grammar nazi at heart. I usually don't criticize people's usage of words - be it pretentious fancy words or anything stupid. A varied vocabulary means we get less bored to read the same meanings over again. But it irks me when a grammar nazi doesn't do his research. Turns me into one.

The usage of "edifies," although uncommon, is not incorrect here. You know the word "edifice"? Just another word for a large building that has been "edified" (established). To edify can indeed mean to "educate morally or spiritually." But there are 3 other usages for the word. In fact the primary meaning of the word "edify" is to "to establish; to improve; to strengthen". All 3 of these work perfectly in the context of "edifies one of the arguments." Strengthens or improves one of the arguments... etc.

So PLEASE - if you have a gripe about a word sounding pretentious - then just say that. Don't make a fool out of yourself and try to prove it means something which it doesn't. I don't like myself when I become a grammar nazi.
http://www.english-test.net/toefl/vocabulary/words/020/toefl-definitions.php#edify

 

[Jaded Scribe]

I will however say that I think that your overlooking the role the Publisher can play in all of this. I suspect that Obsidian likes the push the envelope with content quite a bit, and then when the publisher sees what they have produced goes "OMG, noes you can't do that" and forces them to roll out the censorship and rebuild portions of the game close to release.

This is however apparently not the case with "New Vegas", but I do think it was a factor with "Neverwinter Nights 2" and some of their other games. Atari in paticular seems to be a group of prudes, I keep looking at "Troika" and "Temple Of Elemental Evil" as an example of why things probably go wrong when they deal with real RPG developers who are serious about making M rated games.

Contract Design Work (any media) 101: Keep in close contact with your contractor and get approval on items before you burn a ton of time and money developing said items. This goes double for objectionable items when you are working with a publisher that has the reputation of being prudish.

If this was really the cause, it's still Obsidian's fault for not getting the go-ahead on those items they wanted to include.

 

[Frostbite3789]

This goes hand in hand with something I've experienced recently as far as people defending developers for no reason. This time, it being EA Sports and their not patching/releasing a roster update for NHL 11 until the game is out for about 2 months. One guy went as far as to say "The developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts" They're fixing a broken game mode and rosters that aren't even up to date on the summer happenings out of the good of their hearts? No. I'm pretty sure they have to do that because I spent $60 on their game.

OT: I've been waiting on getting New Vegas for exactly these reasons, waiting for the patch to hit consoles.

 

[mr_rubino]

You're picking on Obsidian! I love their games and you're just a big mean hater-face.

I just found my new troll insult.

Thank you

I've used similar Whedonesque language devices in the past, but I usually use "big mean poopy-face."
This ain't debate class. I am well within my rights to bring the language down to a level that fits the argument as it is presented.

Does some portly Irish guy on the internet really have to explain why "It worked for me. You're biased and mean! PC gaming thrives on the consumer knowing as little about the product as possible." is a wholly irrelevant and childish response?

 

[Bloodstain]

Hey, now it's our turn again! Let's hate on the haters hating haters!

 

[Mr Smiles]

Hey, now it's our turn again! Let's hate on the haters hating haters!

i hate the haters hating hater hater haterers.... hate.... :3

 

[kouriichi]

Im one of those people who say "it worked for me".

Why? Because it did. Infact, ive modded the game to hell and back now. I probably have 30 or 40 mods loaded up and running at once. And its still smooth and bug free.

And if there are any bugs i would notice, i forget about them. yes, the radscorpion is sticking halfway in the ground. So shoot it and move on, its not like its worth any less xp.

I even went through a list of bugs ((thank you fallout wiki for having many listed)) and went looking for bugs! I wanted to see if i could locate even a few of the list. I ended up finding one, and it crashed my game.

You know what? I reloaded my save, tried it again, and it worked fine. It was a one time fluke i forgot about minutes later, and never complained about.

Your "gripes" are just that. Petty gripes. Your letting minor bugs get under your skin. Infact, half the bugs ive seen in videos or such, i find comical, and wish HAD happened to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKIkw3LIoQ
^ Is that a bug, or the coolest doctor in a game ever? ^

Yes theres bugs. But you can ignore them. Or put the game on hold for a week until it gets patched. Or go play Fable 3 until they patch New Vegas. Or take a vacation with your family. Or pull some overtime for some extra cash so you can get your kid a better christmas gift.

Your words were "So, everyone knows about this so we ... shouldn't discuss it?".
But really, you wernt descussing it. You were complaining about it. Not a single person i know complained about bugs in NV. Maybe they commented about a random crash, or laughed because a Death claw was moon walking at him, but they never complained about it.

You dind't even bother to read the article, did you? Last time I checked, your saved game imploding is not considered a "minor bug". You got lucky, go you, that doesn't change the game being a mess for other people, which from what I've heard is even more frustrating because the game itself is pretty awesome. That the game is awesome doesn't stop it from being a broken mess.

its not just me its working for though. Like i said, not a single person i know ((including the 30 people who go up to the local timbuktu)) has complained about it being a mess. Most of the people who are having problems tend to be more theyer fault then that of the games.

So 1/30 people had theyer memory wiped? amazing! That means the game is completely broken and the company messed up! Most of the time when i do hear about bugs from this game it is minor. "Floating dogs", "People missing", "texture bad". I dont think any of those are game breakers.

it is an amazing game. And people are freaking out about the "terrible bugs" that ruin it. But i cant say any bugs ive seen, or heard of would ruin the game.

So what if your game data was erased? Play the game again. Its not like you have 200 hours on a single save.

 

[Archindar]

I still love Obsidian, despite the flaws.