Obsidian Mailbag
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
Thanks for saying this out loud. I've always wondered why so many people make excuses and stick up for Obsidian. What have they done that's been so great (well, they did get NWN2 working great, after many updates and expansions that is). As far as I know, this company has never released a game that didn't have plenty of bugs in it.
I just bought New Vegas and played it for a couple of hours last night. And so far, nothing bad has happened. But after playing this and Fallout 3 (done by a better developer) I think Bethesda needs to retire the game engine.
I just bought New Vegas and played it for a couple of hours last night. And so far, nothing bad has happened. But after playing this and Fallout 3 (done by a better developer) I think Bethesda needs to retire the game engine.
walls of text aside, the answer I can choose in less than a second with no hesitation is YES, I DO WANT EXTRA TESTING DONE. you can't let developers get away with releasing crappy products, going by your math, if 1/30 people had a problem with the game, and it becomes a best seller and sells millions, which it already has, thats hundreds of thousands of deffective copies, in what way is that excusable?kouriichi said:
I hate the argument "rejoice the game made it out" because there are plenty of games that would be awesome IF they had their bugs removed. If given a choice, I'd close down developers before releasing buggy games.
bethesda isn't at fault, they are at just as much as obsidian, there are plenty of ways when programing something to test it and make sure it works, not to mention, avoid further errors. Are we just going to ignore the fact that all obsidian games released before NV were buggy as hell? Also ironic that at the end of these arguments "people blame everyone but their idol" they make it look like they idolize obsidian for which they lay no blame.CD-R said:
So you would rather wait 3 more months for it to be out?Warachia said:
Youd rather not be able to play the game, at all, then have it right now to play?
I know the game has bugs. And its effected several people. But that doesnt mean its a bad game.
Your saying, this is the worst game ever produced because it has bugs, and that the company should be shutdown right now because they released this game?
If you are saying that, then your ((really only way to describe it)) and idiot. Its an amazing game. Everyone ive talked to has done nothing but raved about the game. And for good reason. But do a few problems make it a bad game? No. Its not broken. It works. You can play it. You can have a good time. If your going to complain about every little problem and nitpick, the future of gaming isnt for you.
As games get bigger, chances of bugs and problems does too. You cant have everything perfict. Its eather play the game now, or wait 2-4 months for them to explore every inch on the wasteland. And thats if they decide to keep the engine. If they decided to scrap it, the game wouldent be out until the middle of next year! Be happy you atleast have the game to play. And DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS. Dont sit here and complain "my game crashed, i want my money back!"
Yes. The game crashes every few hours, at completely random times. But theres a quick save button. Use it. ((at least if your on PC anyway. And if you arnt, you made a horrible choice on which system to purchase it for))
so let me get this straight, you're saying that it is nitpicking to point out flaws in a game that stop me from playing it? YES I would rather wait as long as it takes for bugs to get fixed, I never once said that this game was the worst game ever, that was you attempting badly to put words into my mouth, nor did I say that the company SHOULD be shutdown, I said to look at their track record. No, I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I expect to get something deep I can get immersed in, not a company that releases games that crash, and corrupt data.kouriichi said:
To tell the truth, I love Bioware, I love Bioware games, you know why? because I love story based games and gameplay. I would love for obsidian to release a great rpg, but kotor 2 I couldn't finish because an npc was missing, NVN 2 crashed and corrupted 5 hours of data, alpha protocol was almost unbeatable because the enemy could see me LITERALLY through 3 walls and could shoot through cover, and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data. Does this make them bad game designers? Yes it does, especially when they claimed to have 300+ beta testers.
But thats just you. I played((and happly own)) Neverwinter nights 2, and i never ran into problems. Same with AP. Infact, i spec'd my character in it for me to spacifically have a hard time. ((shotguns are not a good idea)).Warachia said:
If i did encounter bugs, they never stopped me from enjoying the games. They did have over 300 beta testers. But 300 people cant find every problem in a game as big as this one. Look at World of warcraft! Theyer still fixing and balancing it every week!
Theyer great devolpers, otherwise the game wouldent be half as good as it is now. Something tells me your playing NV on a console. ((because your barrowing it from your friend)) But thats a horrible idea. This game was more of less ment for PC. Consoles are outdated for the newer games coming out. Theres bound to be more problems on the console then on the PC.
Your saying, the problems youve encountered have ruined the game for you. But its selfish to say, "No one should play the game because im not having a good time." To be honest, i would have taken this game a month before it was released! before the testers even had time to fix half the bugs the game probably had!
Why? Because its a great game. Your letting a few bugs get in the way of YOUR good time. I ignore them, like any half sensible person.
OH! And if you didnt even purchase the game (("and every time I borrow NV from a friend, it eventually crashed while loading, corrupting the data")) you really dont have a right to complain about it. :/ you should buy your own copy and see if you encounter the problems. Chances are its from the scratched disk your friends been loaning you.
It's not just me, look at the article we are arguing on, look at other similar forums, hundreds of people (as the escapist is a small group of the large gamer whole) have the exact same issues, you can update consoles and with obsidians grand 0/4 games that worked right for me, OF COURSE I'LL BORROW NV BEFORE BUYING IT. If I borrow something, and it doesn't work, that means it doesn't work for the person I borrowed it from (I checked and it doesn't, he returned it) and I might get the same problem, I work for my money, and because of living expenses I don't have much. I never said that nobody should play the game because I wasn't having a good time, I said bugs should be fixed before release, and funnily enough, people seem to be having more bugs on pc than consoles.kouriichi said:
If your argument is going to consist of nothing more than attempting to put words in my mouth because you assume to know what I am saying, go ahead, you can have you bottle, I won't respond anymore.
:/ im not putting words in your mouth.Warachia said:
Im saying your argument is a selfish one. You didnt even purchase the game, and your complaining about it.
Many people do have bugs. But most of them dont care there are bugs. YES THERE ARE BUGS, WE GET IT. So dont play the game, and dont complain about it.
Why are you complaining about it to begin with? You didnt spend a dime on it. You dont own the game and play it every day. Ask your friend what he thinks. Is he still playing it? Is he having a good time?
YOUR JUST PICKY! PICKY PICKY PICKY! You want this game to be perfict. Thats nice. Dont buy it, wait for the bugs to be fixed. Dont sit there like an idiot and bad mouth the company and game because you DIDNT SPEND A PENNY on the game that your complaining about bugs in.
Your arguement is basically, "Im barrowing the game from my friend because i dont want to spend $60 right no, ((the internet pirate's argument, which, chances are if no one pirated theyer past games they could afford to hire more testers)) and the bugs in the game i dont own and didnt pay for are making it unplayable for me because im picky and didnt accually even purchase the game."
I bought the game. There are bugs. OH WELL. i got over it. If there was a problem, i reloaded the game. If it crashed, oh well, i saved my game. Data got corrupted? Oh well. Delete it, and play it again, this time, having more fun because your arnt starting out starke nakid with no concept of direction in the world.
Yes, i pay the cost of living too. 800 bucks a month in rent, plus food, cable, heating, internet and cell phone.Warachia said:
Thats not excuse to complain about a game you didnt even purchase. :/
"i cant afford the game, so im going to barrow it, and then complain about it because i played it FOR FREE."
Genious!! Your a step forward for mankind!
Lets all barrow a game, and then tell everyone how bad it was because im picky and let a few bugs get in the way of my good time!Here. Let me ask you a few simple question. Did you enjoy the game? Did you have a good time playing the game? Was the voice acting, character design, musical choices, and fluid movement all on par with any other game out there?
You and me both. I struggled my way through the friendly AI taking a nap through half the game, a number of CTD's at random intervals and other assorted bugs only for the game's digital certificate to expire at about the time I got to the last boss. After installing the patch to fix that, I discovered that it deleted my saves. Thanks Epic. Thanks a bunch.Sgt. Sykes said:
For those short on time, just read the bold part.
I'm sure it's been said before, but it's worth repeating. For the sake of RPGs, Black Isle needs to get the band back together.
Obsidian appears to have gotten a lot the people with the insane complexity and reach of Fallout 2 and Planescape: Torment (and all the rest), but very little of the technical genius that, y'know, made those games work. Bioware got the technical geniuses and pencil-necked geeks who know how to make a game work, but there have been more than a few complaints that they've been making the same game over and over with variations on the theme. The technical end of the games are fantastic, with titles such as Mass Effect and Dragon Age ranking among my favorite of the recent crop of RPGs, but there is a little less depth to their products as the years have gone by.
By no means are either company's games bad. Oh, hell no. When Obsidian gets their bugs worked out and, you know, decides to hire female voice actors for some of their games*, I love them. I've been playing New Vegas for a while, and despite many definite bugs and slowdowns, it's the first Fallout game since F2 that actually feels like a Fallout game. Similarly, I own and am in the process of replaying all the Mass Effects, Dragon Age, and Jade Empire. I like these games a lot. But think of what someone with Obsidian's ambition could do to knock them out of the park, if they had Bioware's technical sense and QA to fall back on.
So, once again, please, Black Isle, get back together. One half of you is having their games meddled to bits by EA (Like the sound glitches on Windows 7, the stupid DRM fiascos, the silly microtransaction policies for things that should have been in the game to begin with, the EADM, and the inability to play due to the Cerberus Network not being up the first day in ME2), and the other has enough bugs and weirdness in their games that they might as well be a European developer.
*This was the sole reason they didn't include a playable female in Alpha Protocol according to the dev team. They had to meet a deadline or a budget or something and were unable to hire a voice actress.
I'm sure it's been said before, but it's worth repeating. For the sake of RPGs, Black Isle needs to get the band back together.
Obsidian appears to have gotten a lot the people with the insane complexity and reach of Fallout 2 and Planescape: Torment (and all the rest), but very little of the technical genius that, y'know, made those games work. Bioware got the technical geniuses and pencil-necked geeks who know how to make a game work, but there have been more than a few complaints that they've been making the same game over and over with variations on the theme. The technical end of the games are fantastic, with titles such as Mass Effect and Dragon Age ranking among my favorite of the recent crop of RPGs, but there is a little less depth to their products as the years have gone by.
By no means are either company's games bad. Oh, hell no. When Obsidian gets their bugs worked out and, you know, decides to hire female voice actors for some of their games*, I love them. I've been playing New Vegas for a while, and despite many definite bugs and slowdowns, it's the first Fallout game since F2 that actually feels like a Fallout game. Similarly, I own and am in the process of replaying all the Mass Effects, Dragon Age, and Jade Empire. I like these games a lot. But think of what someone with Obsidian's ambition could do to knock them out of the park, if they had Bioware's technical sense and QA to fall back on.
So, once again, please, Black Isle, get back together. One half of you is having their games meddled to bits by EA (Like the sound glitches on Windows 7, the stupid DRM fiascos, the silly microtransaction policies for things that should have been in the game to begin with, the EADM, and the inability to play due to the Cerberus Network not being up the first day in ME2), and the other has enough bugs and weirdness in their games that they might as well be a European developer.
*This was the sole reason they didn't include a playable female in Alpha Protocol according to the dev team. They had to meet a deadline or a budget or something and were unable to hire a voice actress.
Christ almighty, Kouriichi, stop acting like a spoiled two year old obsessed with instant gratification.
Keeping a game 2 extra months for testing doesn't mean it's going to never be released. It means you have to wait for a finished product. Fans of competent companies tend to understand that.
EDIT: Forgive me if I have a hearty laugh reading you tell someone they can't complain about free entertainment.
Keeping a game 2 extra months for testing doesn't mean it's going to never be released. It means you have to wait for a finished product. Fans of competent companies tend to understand that.
EDIT: Forgive me if I have a hearty laugh reading you tell someone they can't complain about free entertainment.
This was really a joke. I haven't played New Vegas, so I have no idea whether it's good or not, but, next time, use direct quotes. Don't twist the question to make it easier to answer.
I agree. Gamers need to stop making excuses for games and companies.
You can't move the industry's quality forward by just accepting all the problems, only by naming them and providing criticizim can the problems be worked out because they are not being ignored.
Personally, I think that bioware should stop relying on story for good games and should start using GAMEplay instead (looking at you, dragon age)
Discounting the endings, I personally think obsidian makes better stories.
You can't move the industry's quality forward by just accepting all the problems, only by naming them and providing criticizim can the problems be worked out because they are not being ignored.
Personally, I think that bioware should stop relying on story for good games and should start using GAMEplay instead (looking at you, dragon age)
Discounting the endings, I personally think obsidian makes better stories.
In general I also found the game pretty glitchy (and yes, it is literally required for me to ALWAYS have task manager open when playing or I risk having to reboot my computer when my sound card makes a noise like a thousand angry scarab beetles and my entire computer acts like I tore out 90% of the memory) but my only real problem with the way you said it was the "any level of play testing" thing. Perhaps they play tested it on my computer and the computers of all my friends who DIDN'T have this save game issue. It's one to say "this bug is ridiculous and should have been caught" but saying that it should have been easily caught in playtesting when it could easily slip through doesn't make sense to me.