Obsidian's doing a Kickstarter, what are your thoughts?

[Jason Rayes]

Definitely getting it. Yes Obsidian have a rep for buggy games, buggy games that have good stories and are good fun to play. They also provide good post release support that irons out the bugs. I solved a patched New Vegas without a single glitch.

I notice a few people complaining about the lack of screenshots etc. Ok, a Kickstarter is something that is done so a company can START a game. There are no screenshots because there are no screens to take shots of. At best with most Kickstarters you get a splash screen or some concept art.

 

[Callate]

I have mixed feelings. I can certainly understand from Obsidian's point of view the appeal of moving away from the traditional model, especially after that debacle with getting withheld bonuses because of Metacritic ratings ([link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116343-Obsidian-Lost-Bonus-for-Fallout-New-Vegas-by-One-Metacritic-Point[/link])

But on the other hand, while long-absent series and fondly remembered game designers "returning to the scene" via Kickstarter is one thing, a major player like Obsidian doing so is something else, and makes the hairs on my neck stand on end. We may be about to see a new level of revolution in the way games are made and financed... or we might be about to see the first big-time Kickstarter project implosion. God love Obsidian, they've got a reach/grasp problem, and if they think 10,000 backers are going to be more forgiving than one big company, they may have a nasty surprise awaiting them.

I hope the game rocks the world and the system. I don't feel the kind of absolute confidence in that outcome that I'm ready to pop champagne.

 

[kingthrall]

I buy their game when it is on the shelf. I never support kickstarter projects for the simple fact that there is no guarantee it will work and that you are going to like the end result.

Heres a funny example.

I was really drunk in the city going home and passed a poor person who asked me for some money to go back home. He needed 100 dollars for a plane ticket apparently. I gave him $50 being happy drunk.

The next day I saw him with a new jacket asking for more money, hiding when he noticed I saw him on the other side of the road.

Morale of the story- dont trust anyone with your money unless you willing to lose it.

 

[TrevHead]

I'm usually quite sceptical about KS but if reputable game studios can use it to bypass publishers like EA then yeah good times.

 

[Norrdicus]

But on the other hand, while long-absent series and fondly remembered game designers "returning to the scene" via Kickstarter is one thing, a major player like Obsidian doing so is something else, and makes the hairs on my neck stand on end. We may be about to see a new level of revolution in the way games are made and financed... or we might be about to see the first big-time Kickstarter project implosion.

I have to ask, where were you when Tim Schafer was asking for money? Not to be rude or anything, it's merely that a lot of people seem to have forgotten who caused the Kickstarter game boom to begin with.

 

[Jason Rayes]

I have to ask, where were you when Tim Schafer was asking for money? Not to be rude or anything, it's merely that a lot of people seem to have forgotten who caused the Kickstarter game boom to begin with.

Bingo, I was thinking this myself. As someone has already pointed out if this enables creative companies to bypass the restrictions of working for a big publisher, I'm all for it. Both the game Double Fine are trying to make and the game Obsidian are trying to make would NEVER have gotten funding from a big publisher. Graphic Adventures and Old School RPG's are considered dead non profitable genres. The Publishers aren't in it for the finished art, they are in it for the profit. If a developer, any developer, big or small, has to turn to Kickstarter to get their funding, that's fine. At the end of the day if the fans think the project is worth it, they will fund it. That's the whole point of Kickstarters.

 

[Yali]

Tim Cain: "... is the opportunity to make an M-rated game. I think many publishers steer clear of that these days."

*Lips involuntarily form the words "Thank you"*

 

[CoS_Dorian]

The fact that they raised 1.1 million in 24 hours on Kickstarter makes my jaw drop. Personally not a huge fan of Obsidian but I feel happy for them. I think they totally deserve what people believe in them.

 

[Kimozabi]

KOTOR 2 - they had roughly a year to make that game.
NWN2 - they were again pressed for time to make that game.
Fallout NV - they made the game on Bethesdas engine, how could any company not make a buggy game?

Their buggy history is far from their own fault.

 

[GiantRaven]

The update on Kickstarter has me even more interested. Has there been a fantasy RPG with a significant focus on differing ethnicity and nationality before? Rather than the overused 'herp a derp Elves and Dwarves don't like each other lol!'

I definitely haven't seen any.

 

[Callate]

I have to ask, where were you when Tim Schafer was asking for money? Not to be rude or anything, it's merely that a lot of people seem to have forgotten who caused the Kickstarter game boom to begin with.

Fair point. I tend to think of Schafer more as one of those "fondly remembered designers", even though it's not strictly accurate- Double Fine has made, and continues to make, games quite recently. I guess I still don't tend to think of Schafer or DF as on quite the same "scale" as Obsidian- since Brutal Legend, Schafer's offerings have been kind of small-scale indie offerings like Stacking and Happy Action Theater, while Obsidian has continued to swing for the fences with AAA offerings like Alpha Protocol and Fallout: New Vegas.

I'll grant it may be a somewhat nebulous distinction.

 

[MetalMagpie]

Ahhhh, no.

Obsidian needs to iron out its management issues before it sees a dime from me. They can't keep to a schedule and their bug testing sucks balls.

Every time someone says that, a child dies. Every single one of the common complaints levelled against the company are from draconian publishers fucking them up the ass.

Lucasarts: Ludicrously Strict Deadlines

Atari: Ludicrously Strict Deadlines

Bethesda: Promised to PA test on New Vegas, didn't

Sega: Rushed AP out before it was finished

Dungeon Siege 3 suffered none of this bull, and was released stable and finished.

See, there's one common element in all of this: Obsidian.

Other development studios who work under Lucas Arts, Atari, Bethesda and Sega can all keep to a schedule and release a finished product in time. Okay, maybe not so much Bethesda but still.

In the case of AP, if you didn't already know, it wasn't doomed because of deadlines. It was because of incompetent management with screwed up priorities.

Going from publisher to publisher and using the exact same excuse, I think they wore out their trust.

Ok, if you want to dismiss them based on that, that's fine. It's silly and kind of a shame, but that's not a problem.

It's not that silly to decide not to spend money on a future game with very few concrete details because the company's past record isn't as good it could be.

Asking for money with a vague description like "it'll be something like these other games" is only really a convincer for fans.

 

[Thoric485]

Food for thought: all the money gathered from gaming-related kickstarters until now doesn't even amount to ME3's marketing budget.

In the grand scale of things, if even one memorable title comes out of it all, it would have been worth it for me.

 

[Thoric485]

From the Kickstarter page:

We were actually contacted by some publishers over the last few months that wanted to use us to do a Kickstarter. I said to them "So, you want us to do a Kickstarter for, using our name, we then get the Kickstarter money to make the game, you then publish the game, but we then don't get to keep the brand we make and we only get a portion of the profits" They said, "Yes"

I don't have words.

 

[Jason Rayes]

snip

Wow I missed that part.

You can see why Obsidian is tired of working through Publishers. "Hey do a kickstarter that way we won't even have to pay for production, we get to keep your IP, PLUS we take a cut. How can you resist?"

*Facepalm*

 

[DoPo]

So, project update: DRM free game. Several people in this thread said they'll consider pitching in if that's an option and it now is. It will be on GOG - project backers (of appropriate amount) will choose whether they want the game from Steam or GOG. There are few more digital tiers for backing, including "addons" to - pay $25 extra and you get another digital copy. Those who backed the project enough to get the Collector's edition, will also get access to the beta.

Spoiler: Full update

Project Update #4: Update #4 - Digital Tiers, DRM, and Add-Ons Update

Well you all did it, you helped us get to $1.6M and we now have a Mac version and are adding more story into the world.

We have also been listening and reading your feedback on Kickstarter and have some changes that are happening as soon as this update is posted. One thing, we are not updating just yet are the stretch goals, but don?t worry those are going to get updated very soon. Oh, and we are putting a schedule together for updates that will include guest stars almost every day ? Josh will be talking more about the design tomorrow (Sep 19), our unflappable CTO Chris Jones (architect of the Fallout and Arcanum engines) on Friday (Sep 20), and I think we will be able to squeeze one in from Mr. Tim Cain over the weekend.


So, what are those changes?!?

DRM Free Option

You asked and we are delivering. In conjunction with GOG, we are going to offer a DRM free version of the game for our Kickstarter Backers. When the campaign ends, you will be able to choose whether you would like a key from GOG or Steam. For our Mac friends, we are still working on a DRM free option, since GOG does not currently support the Mac. Oh, and the great guys at GOG are having a special right now on all of the great Infinity Engine games, so check that out as well.
New Digital Tiers

We are adding a $50 and an $80 digital tier. The $50 tier will get you the digital version of the game, the soundtrack, the digital version of the Collector?s Book, a collection of wallpapers made for multiple resolutions and multiple monitors, high resolution concept art, a high resolution version of the map, and ringtones. For the $80 tier, you will get all of that plus a digital copy of the strategy guide, and a second digital download of the game.

Add-Ons

This is a short list for right now, but we will be adding more as the days pass including some pretty swank Obsidian-wear.

Add a Digital Download of the Game +$25

Add Three Digital Downloads of the Game +$60

As a quick tutorial on how to add add-ons, goto the Project Eternity site on Kickstarter and then hit the Manage Your Pledge button. The reward tier you had already selected will still be selected and the amount will be in the big box at the top. All you need to do is add the dollar amount that covers the add-ons you would like to your pledge and enter the new total number. For instance, if you are at the $35 Pledge level and want to add one Digital Download, you would enter $60 as your total pledge.

New for our Collector's Edition Box Level ($140)

Lastly we want to announce that we are going to give our backers at the Collector?s Edition Box Level ($140) a little extra today and that is Beta access to the game! That?s just a little taste of what we will be adding into tiers in the coming days and weeks through stretch goals and the occasional random act.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

So, project update: DRM free game. Several people in this thread said they'll consider pitching in if that's an option and it now is. It will be on GOG - project backers (of appropriate amount) will choose whether they want the game from Steam or GOG. There are few more digital tiers for backing, including "addons" to - pay $25 extra and you get another digital copy. Those who backed the project enough to get the Collector's edition, will also get access to the beta.

Spoiler: Full update

Project Update #4: Update #4 - Digital Tiers, DRM, and Add-Ons Update

Well you all did it, you helped us get to $1.6M and we now have a Mac version and are adding more story into the world.

We have also been listening and reading your feedback on Kickstarter and have some changes that are happening as soon as this update is posted. One thing, we are not updating just yet are the stretch goals, but don?t worry those are going to get updated very soon. Oh, and we are putting a schedule together for updates that will include guest stars almost every day ? Josh will be talking more about the design tomorrow (Sep 19), our unflappable CTO Chris Jones (architect of the Fallout and Arcanum engines) on Friday (Sep 20), and I think we will be able to squeeze one in from Mr. Tim Cain over the weekend.


So, what are those changes?!?

DRM Free Option

You asked and we are delivering. In conjunction with GOG, we are going to offer a DRM free version of the game for our Kickstarter Backers. When the campaign ends, you will be able to choose whether you would like a key from GOG or Steam. For our Mac friends, we are still working on a DRM free option, since GOG does not currently support the Mac. Oh, and the great guys at GOG are having a special right now on all of the great Infinity Engine games, so check that out as well.
New Digital Tiers

We are adding a $50 and an $80 digital tier. The $50 tier will get you the digital version of the game, the soundtrack, the digital version of the Collector?s Book, a collection of wallpapers made for multiple resolutions and multiple monitors, high resolution concept art, a high resolution version of the map, and ringtones. For the $80 tier, you will get all of that plus a digital copy of the strategy guide, and a second digital download of the game.

Add-Ons

This is a short list for right now, but we will be adding more as the days pass including some pretty swank Obsidian-wear.

Add a Digital Download of the Game +$25

Add Three Digital Downloads of the Game +$60

As a quick tutorial on how to add add-ons, goto the Project Eternity site on Kickstarter and then hit the Manage Your Pledge button. The reward tier you had already selected will still be selected and the amount will be in the big box at the top. All you need to do is add the dollar amount that covers the add-ons you would like to your pledge and enter the new total number. For instance, if you are at the $35 Pledge level and want to add one Digital Download, you would enter $60 as your total pledge.

New for our Collector's Edition Box Level ($140)

Lastly we want to announce that we are going to give our backers at the Collector?s Edition Box Level ($140) a little extra today and that is Beta access to the game! That?s just a little taste of what we will be adding into tiers in the coming days and weeks through stretch goals and the occasional random act.

saw this and was thinking of making a similar post, it's good that obsidian is hearing the fans and found a way for it to happen (especially with GoG)

 

[DoPo]

Kickstarter is basically a way of getting investors without having them actually expect a return on that investment. God forbid Obsidian employees actually take a risk and invest some of their own money into the project. Then again, you'd have to be pretty stupid to do so when there are countless idiots out there just waiting for a reason to start throwing money at their screens.

Dude, do you think Obsidian employees can scrounge up 1 million dollars to...pay...themselves? How does that even work? And you are aware that Kidkstarter is essentially the same as you somebody starting their own business, right? The exact same thing happens - you get money from somewhere to fund it. Or do you think that every single person who opens up a business says "Yep, I have these hundreds of thousands lying around gathering dust" before they do. Because, I'll some don't have that kind of money.

 

[DoPo]

Dude, do you think Obsidian employees can scrounge up 1 million dollars to...pay...themselves?

What the hell are you talking about? Do you honestly believe the people behind a private business shouldn't succeed on their own merits?

How does that even work?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Fact, people want money for work they would be doing. Fact, Obsidian would be doing work. Fact, if they collect money, they'll just pay themselves. What do their own merits or my belief in them have to do with it? They need to do trivial things like eat, pay rents (maybe) and those kinds of stuff. You know, the ones money provide. If they don't get money for their work, well, they'll not be able to work for long, no matter how great they are.

And you are aware that Kidkstarter is essentially the same as you somebody starting their own business, right? The exact same thing happens - you get money from somewhere to fund it.

Really? Do the investors get a return on their investment?

Depends on the company and the type of investment - some would get constant percentage of profits, others will get money when the company is sold, i.e., finished. For Kickstarter projects (a lot of them, at least) they do get something from investing - pay 25 bucks and you get the game. What Kickstarter does is equivalent to a limited liability. In fact it is limited liability - if the company, or the project in this case, goes bust, you only lose your initial investment, nothing more. This is how LLC works.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

I have a large hatred for Obsidian games and they are by far one of my least favorite video game developers. This is mainly due to the fact that I've shelled out far too much money on their games only to be left broke and disappointed. Alpha Protocol was shit, New Vegas ended up corrupting 3 of my saves and lets not mention the numerous bugs that made Kotor II and the former two games unplayable at times.