Of Physics & Metallurgy...

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SckizoBoy

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Jan 6, 2011
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A Hermit's Cave
OK... despite being a chemist and having a good grounding in physics, this problem still bothers me...

How do High-Explosive Anti-Tank shells do what they do? I mean, any better than APC, APCBC or APHE rounds...? And how does spaced armour reduce its effectiveness?

Better yet, can anyone explain the Monroe effect? I've looked it up, I've had people explain it to me, but I'm just not getting something there...

/the random
 

Albino Boo

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Jun 14, 2010
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SckizoBoy said:
OK... despite being a chemist and having a good grounding in physics, this problem still bothers me...

How do High-Explosive Anti-Tank shells do what they do? I mean, any better than APC, APCBC or APHE rounds...? And how does spaced armour reduce its effectiveness?

Better yet, can anyone explain the Monroe effect? I've looked it up, I've had people explain it to me, but I'm just not getting something there...

/the random
APC, APCBC, APHE rounds all rely on the kinetic energy of the shell to penetrate the armour and then the explosive to do damage. A heat round has the explosive as the penetrator. The charge goes off when the round hits the armour surface creating a focused stream of gas at one point as opposed the normal omnidirectional explosion. This acts like a blowtorch and burns a hole through the amour. The reason why they are used is because they have the same penetrative power regardless of range. The KE of the round is simply not a factor. Also, this means the projectile can be smaller and slower but have the same hitting power. Think of the size of an 88mm gun and compare that to a guided AT missile. Spaced armour allows the gas to dissipate between surfaces.

The Monroe effect is just the name stamped on to the explosive altering the pressure of gas produced by the detonation.
 

OneCatch

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Jun 19, 2010
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SckizoBoy said:
OK... despite being a chemist and having a good grounding in physics, this problem still bothers me...

How do High-Explosive Anti-Tank shells do what they do? I mean, any better than APC, APCBC or APHE rounds...? And how does spaced armour reduce its effectiveness?

Better yet, can anyone explain the Monroe effect? I've looked it up, I've had people explain it to me, but I'm just not getting something there...

/the random


I'd point out that HEAT rockets aren't infallible - shells relying on normal kientics are actually better in many utilities.

With a normal penetrator, whether a bullet, a crossbow bolt, or an APDS round, the penetrative power is generated from the propelling force at the point of firing. This accelerates the projectile, which then mashes through stuff, generally to newton's depth approximation.

With a normal explosive shell, the aim is to either use enough explosive to distort to destroy the armour (inefficient) or to reinforce the front of the shell enough that it mostly penetrates the armour before fully exploding on the other side.

HEAT and HESH rounds don't rely on this, and are able to give similar but not necessarily better anti-tank capability against steel armour. It's more flexible because it can be mounted on delivery systems which don't go fast enough to penetrate by pure kinetic energy or explosive payload alone (rockets, low velocity guns, recoiless rifles, RPGs).
All the delivery system has to do is get the warhead to the armour, rather than actually getting through it as well, because the warhead does that.

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With HEAT rounds, the charge is supposed to detonate on the surface, then rely on the aforementioned Munroe effect to create a jet of metal as a penetrator. It's kind of 'a bullet firing a bullet'.
It's important to mention that the jet of metal doesn't get hot enough to melt through the armour, it's pure kinetics.

Looking at this image, it's surprisingly intuitive why that jet forms as it does. The liner is accelerated most in the middle, and less as you move towards the edges. I guess this can be justified by imagining the explosive at the edge of the liner as volume expansion from series of point objects.


Momentum is conserved because what's left of the case in that diagram, the majority of the explosive, and whatever else is left of the rocket will be dispersing, mostly to the left in that frame of reference.

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HESH rounds kind of use the armour it's trying to defeat as the penetrator, though usually with a less refined end result in mind! Instead of getting a pellet as in the picture, you get shards of armour spalling from the other side.

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Spaced armour helps with both of these types because it stops the shaped charge from deploying properly. It forms away from the face of the armour, and then (hopefully) doesn't penetrate as far or at all.
With HEAT this is because the jet will disperse before penetrating both layers, with HESH it's because only the top layer of armour will be spalled, and the fragments don't have enough energy to penetrate the second layer of armour.


Has that clarified things, or made them worse?!
 

Albino Boo

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OneCatch said:
It's important to mention that the jet of metal doesn't get hot enough to melt through the armour, it's pure kinetics.
When dealing with gases KE, pressure and temperature are just different ways of talking about the same thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_theory
 

OneCatch

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albino boo said:
OneCatch said:
It's important to mention that the jet of metal doesn't get hot enough to melt through the armour, it's pure kinetics.
When dealing with gases KE, pressure and temperature are just different ways of talking about the same thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_theory
Sorry, but not really.
You might as well say 'temperature and volume are different ways of talking about the same thing'.
Though the two are related by the ideal gas law (PV=nkT), it doesn't mean they're the same thing. It just means that when you change one, the others are affected too.
High temp means high pressure if the volume stays the same. Similarly, if you reduce volume and keep the same temp, pressure increases.
You actually get pretty weird effects because of these relationships (for example massive cooling when you force expansion within a medium and therefore decrease pressure).

Temperature is caused by the magnitude of general molecular movement and vibration.
By contrast, pressure is caused by the average 'outward' movement of those molecules, and their collision with an outside medium (for example a container).
The two are linked (higher pressure means more violent interactions between molecules and with the edge of the container) but aren't the same thing by any stretch.


It's just not the case that the jet melts it's way through the armour though. It's a kinetic effect.