Official Discussion about the new Forum Rules

[Spinwhiz]

Hello again Yureina,

From my post above it looks like our meeting actually touched on some of your points, however let me expand on a couple I don't think we got to. It's not that they aren't important, it just takes steps to make change.

-snip-

One idea that came up was to have moderators, when taking action on the forums either in the form of modwrath or locking threads, express the reasons for said action being taking within the offending post or thread. While this is something that does occur already, it does not occur in every case. The result of this being that there are moderator actions taken that, to an outside observer, do not see the reason why action was taken. When that happens, unless a post or thread is so clearly out of line that is plain for all to see, all a member sees is that someone got in trouble, but having little idea what specifically that person did wrong, or what led the moderators to give a specific punishment. Without understanding why action has been taken, or why someone was suspended rather than probated for an apparently light offense, confusion and mistrust can easily breed. On the other hand, if a moderator taking action were to edit an offending post expressing what the person did to receive a punishment (or simply a warning), and possibly also put a link to the code of conduct within that edit, other members could have a better idea why specific action was taken, and so to understand what specifically a person did wrong. While it might not seem like such reasons are the "business" of the community at large, and especially so if a punishment was given due to a person's repeat offenses, stating why action was taken to me seems a better alternative than simply leaving bystanders uncertain about the rules or what was behind a moderator's involvement. Uncertainty about the reasons behind the actions of those in authority inevitably leads to suspicion and mistrust of that authority.

This is a great idea and will be looked into after the first set of changes take place. I agree with you, part of the reason for the "RAWR" of the community is the unknowing circumstance as to WHY it is happening. If nothing else, I think the link and reason is a good step in the right direction, even in basic form. We may not however be able to state "multiple infractions" however only because it's a grey area. Although, with a layout of the new potential rule set, community members will probably be able to figure it out without much problem.

The second idea that was pondered was about the supposed ability of the moderators on this site to be able to wrath, delete posts, or close threads at their own discretion. To me however, I know that the moderators on this site, in fact, do have specific guidelines about their actions that, in fact, ensure that their powers are far from being absolute. What I didn't know however was that, apparently, there is a system in place that allows members who have been wrathed to appeal that action if they feel that a moderator acted unjust or too harshly against them. Since I myself have never been wrathed, this is something I didn't even know existed, and, after asking a few of my other friends, didn't seem to be known by several others as well. I snooped around a bit and found no mention of this system anywhere in the code of conduct or the other "official" threads about the rules of this site. Furthermore, not only does this appeal system exist, but, if a case has merit and it is found that a moderator made a wrong decision, that moderator can be held accountable for their actions. I do not know if a moderator who grossly exceeds their authority could be removed or not, but I would assume that that option is possible, even if it is one that would likely be as rare as the offense that would provoke it.

In my opinion, this existing appeal system is something that the community at large should be made aware of, and not just those who receive punishment. It is something that should be clearly mentioned in the forum code of conduct, so that those who see the forum rules also learn of the existence of this appeal option as well. As I said myself when I first learned of this, learning about an appeal system at the moment that I would need it would not be very reassuring to me, because, being something unknown to me, it is not a system that I would be able to reasonably believe actually worked or put any faith into. If, on the other hand, I knew that an appeal system existed before I was at the point that I needed it, I would be much more comfortable about it. This reversal might seem odd since I still would have had no personal experience with that appeal system, but actually there is something very important I am trying to say here. The value of an appeal system is less in its practical value, but in its symbolic value. In other words, that a member who feels that they have been wrongly punished by a moderator is capable of challenging that decision, getting it reversed, and seeing that moderator be held accountable is an example of a "check" on moderator authority. It is an example of the fact that mods on this site do not have absolute power, but in fact are also subject to rules and guidelines that they need to follow or to face the consequences. If members are able to believe that there are checks on the authority of the mods, even if the moments when moderators make unjust decisions are rare, then I would think that the community would be more comfortable dealing with them. The belief that authority can act arbitrarily or is not subject to restrictions, however unfounded those beliefs may be, is something that must be avoided at all costs.

You are correct and a better summary or what the appeal system is and how it can/will be used, especially for members, is going to be drafted. Everyone is held accountable for their actions, even moderators.

While these are only two relatively simple ideas, the thought that lies behind it is what to me is most important. A list of established rules is always helpful in trying to help members subject to rules, but the manner of their implementation is just as important in my opinion. Those who are subject to rules need to be reassured that those rules will be applied fairly, the reasoning behind moderator actions being taken, and that that authority itself is also subject to guidelines and rules. Although this is not a perfect arrangement (there will always be those who dislike authority in general), it is, in my opinion, the best one possible in order to try to promote a better relationship between a community and those that wield power within it.

Although I am reasonably certain that the ideas that I have presented here, as well as the general theme behind them, are probably already within the minds of the moderators and staff of this site, I still felt it necessary to make this post and to present these ideas that my friend and I discussed. What has been written here is an attempt to try to come up with solutions that might help improve the relationship between the community and the moderators of this site. I am hopeful that the thoughts that I have presented in this post may help inspire further discussion or thinking about ideas to try to help further improve this forum community that we all share together. :3

Sincerely,
Yureina[/quote]

Thank you once again. As stated above, your thoughts are in-line with our own in how to make the forums better. I appreciate your time and hope you found my responses helpful.

Best,
Spin

 

[Yureina]

-snip-

Thank you for the reply. It is good to hear that the ideas that I presented here are within the minds of the mods and staff of this site, and so will very likely be adapted. At present, these were the chief ideas I had in mind about ways to try to improve the site, and so I ended up presenting them here in this thread after having brought them up with another moderator. For now, it would seem that, since 'reforms' are on the way, I think I will go ahead and wait to see what sort of changed will be coming and what effects they will have. I am hopeful that the changes that will be made will make these forums an overall better place for all concerned. :3

I'll still be around, of course, thinking about any potential ways that things could improve even after the changes are put in place, and so will, like these other ideas, present them to you if I find it to be an important issue to address. Also, if there is anything you might think I can help out with in some way, don't hesitate to ask. In the meantime... I think I will go play some games.

Take care,
Rei

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, if the rules guidelines understand that I am trying to be a decent forum-goer and doesn't have any weird misunderstandings, then I believe we're cool. After all, I tend to just operate by Rule Zero* here.

Spoiler: *

The one that says "Don't be a Jackass!". Seems to work out well enough.