"Official Threads" discussion.

[Ambient_Malice]

I feel that in order to stimulate the Escapist community, we should have a semi-organised system of "official threads", NeoGAF-style, for noteworthy game and film releases. It doesn't have to be complicated or fancy -- but when Metal Gear Solid 5 drops, for example, The Escapist should have a centralised thread with a strict no-spoiler policy.

I dunno who should be in charge of deciding who makes the OTs, but in the meantime, I'm gonna create some and see what happens. I think the key to a healthy community is having interesting, relevant topics to talk about. I'll use the format [OT], such as "[OT] Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain."

I've created one as a test.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.881387-OT-Zombi-PS4-XBO-PC-Wii-U-Zombi-U

 

[tippy2k2]

Why?

If people want to talk about a new release of some kind, they will make a thread. If enough people want to talk about said game, the thread will stay alive and if not, the thread will die.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

Why? If people want to talk about a new release of some kind, they will make a thread.

Except they don't. That's one of Escapist's flaws. People wanna talk about a new game, but they don't want to make threads about it. Pretty much none of the major videogames releases get proper discussion threads that are simply about the game and not about praising it or talking about how much it sucks. Also, there's a tendency to avoid threads with possible spoilers. An official thread which people can assume is spoiler free is hugely conducive to discussion.

 

[tippy2k2]

Why? If people want to talk about a new release of some kind, they will make a thread.

Except they don't. That's one of Escapist's flaws. People wanna talk about a new game, but they don't want to make threads about it. Pretty much none of the major videogames releases get proper discussion threads that are simply about the game and not about praising it or talking about how much it sucks. Also, there's a tendency to avoid threads with possible spoilers. An official thread which people can assume is spoiler free is hugely conducive to discussion.

We'll see soon enough as I see that you created one for Zombi. It certainly doesn't hurt to try, I just believe that if people wanted to talk about a game, they would.

Good luck either way.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

We'll see soon enough as I see that you created one for Zombi. It certainly doesn't hurt to try, I just believe that if people wanted to talk about a game, they would. Good luck either way.

I'll grant you could be right. But I believe that if The Escapist has threads for new game releases, people will be more likely to come to The Escapist and have constructive discussions. It might take a while, but I think that the problem with The Escapist right now is that there isn't a regular stream of "topical" threads. So I'll make some. I'm not gonna make threads about games older than a few weeks, but I'll certainly be there on September 1 with a Phantom Pain thread. And I might make a Rare Replay one and a few other titles from this month. It doesn't hugely matter to me if people don't post in them - they create a more constructive, lively atmosphere in the forums merely by existing. I think we have a wonderful, friendly, diverse community here at The Escapist. I'd like to give people something to talk about in an organised manner.

 

[IceForce]

It might take a while, but I think that the problem with The Escapist right now is that there isn't a regular stream of "topical" threads. So I'll make some.

By all means, go for it.

I'm not sure how useful it is to have 'no spoiler' threads, because some of the best video game discussion I've had on this forum relates to some very spoilerific stuff, (ME3 endings, etc.)

But still, there's no harm in doing what you're doing too.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

A mod decided to lock both threads for being low content. Which does raise the problem of how to create a fact-based OP for a discussion thread about a game that specifically avoids giving an opinion on the game in the OP without it being a low content post. I could cheat and simply insert a lick of opinion regardless of whether I even played the game or not, but that kinda defeats the purpose of such a thread, since the OP opinion ends up setting a tone for good or bad.

It's an interesting dilemma. One which is spawned from the necessary measures taken to prevent people creating OPs with zero content. The problem is that a notable videogame release is a discussion-worthy topic in and of itself. The more an OP adds, the less a thread becomes about a game and the more it becomes about the OP's opinion on a game.

Now in fairness, it could just be that The Escapist isn't suited to dedicated discussion threads for new release games. But I think the forum would benefit from a system where every major release gets a dedicated, impartially OPed thread.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

A mod decided to lock both threads for being low content. Which does raise the problem of how to create a fact-based OP for a discussion thread about a game that specifically avoids giving an opinion on the game in the OP without it being a low content post. I could cheat and simply insert a lick of opinion regardless of whether I even played the game or not, but that kinda defeats the purpose of such a thread, since the OP opinion ends up setting a tone for good or bad.

It's an interesting dilemma. One which is spawned from the necessary measures taken to prevent people creating OPs with zero content. The problem is that a notable videogame release is a discussion-worthy topic in and of itself. The more an OP adds, the less a thread becomes about a game and the more it becomes about the OP's opinion on a game.

Now in fairness, it could just be that The Escapist isn't suited to dedicated discussion threads for new release games. But I think the forum would benefit from a system where every major release gets a dedicated, impartially OPed thread.

Now you're just being bitter. Here's the thing: The Escapist is 100% perfectly capable of having a discussion about new releases. That's not what you did. You didn't start a discussion. You had no opinion, no point of view, nothing to say or add to anything. All you posted was that a game exists. That's not enough. That's not a discussion and you shouldn't try to force a place to discuss video games.
We already have a place where we all come together to trade ideas, discuss games, argue, grandstand, debate and overall participate in a larger community.
ITS CALL THE FORUMS! Forum, from the Latin, meaning a meeting place or public square where business and general daily life takes place.

And your idea that a game release is a topic in and of itself? Its not. Its a fact. A sentence. Nothing more. There's no discussion to be had, no points to make. Nothing to bring in a reader and certainly nothing to bring them back.

We don't need to create a forum within a forum. If you have something noteworthy to say on a new game, please by all means create a thread. I promise I will be one of the first to reply and I will approach your content with the same respect and consideration any legit Thread post deserves. But if you keep creating threads about the idea of discussing a game, without actually discussing the game, you will eventually get banned. Its just the way it goes.

 

[Rip Van Rabbit]

I feel that you may be vastly underestimating the Escapist Community's ability to use the forums to their own advantage. Discussion threads, whether it be a particular topic/piece of news/game release or reminiscing over older releases, will be created without the need for further structure. Especially structure that is not left to the user's discretion.

We have all the tools available to discuss a topic, have an opinion and branch off into further smaller discussions as a thread progresses. Imposing a specific structure is limiting, and conversely, leaving the opening topic impartial leaves the thread devoid of discussion value.

Take your latest locked threads for example, I understand that you wanted people to talk about those games. Yet merely presenting the existence of a game in the opening topic and nothing more...somewhat leaves the thread devoid of discussion value. There were no interesting ideas being presented or divergent opinions that we can talk around, it simply comes across as something akin to an advertisement. At the end of the day, opinions about said topic are the only things we can talk about...so an initial opinion (The OP) leads to reactionary opinions and discussion of further opinions...and that's how we end up with a discussion.

Basically, if members of the community want to discuss something, they will. Plenty of big releases in the past have gotten "First impressions"/"Why I dislike"/"Things that bug you about 'insert title of game here'/"Positive things about 'insert title of game here'." - types of threads, for example.

If anything, the first impressions threads bring about the most discussion. Or if you're looking at a game before release, create a thread regarding the topic of whether there is certain amount of hype for 'upcoming game title here'.

 

[IceForce]

Yes, I probably should have suggested you okay it with a mod first. I forgot to suggest that. That wasn't very forward-thinking of me.

But if you keep creating threads about the idea of discussing a game, without actually discussing the game, you will eventually get banned. Its just the way it goes.

I guess it could also be seen as a way of farming thread badges, while putting in little to no effort.

But yes, you raise a good point.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

Now you're just being bitter.

Not at all. I fully respect the decision of the mod(s). After all, they're the ones who have the difficult job of managing these forums.

And your idea that a game release is a topic in and of itself? Its not. Its a fact. A sentence. Nothing more. There's no discussion to be had, no points to make. Nothing to bring in a reader and certainly nothing to bring them back.

Not exactly. It's similar conceptually to "Generals" threads used by 4chan, for example. Threads that are designed to be discussion threads for a particular topic -- a game, a movie, a particular hot button issue. When GamerGate was discussed on the main forums here, it was given its own dedicated "topic" thread where the point of the thread was not to discuss the OPs opinions but rather for the community to discuss the topic itself.

We don't need to create a forum within a forum. If you have something noteworthy to say on a new game, please by all means create a thread. I promise I will be one of the first to reply and I will approach your content with the same respect and consideration any legit Thread post deserves.

Fair enough. So for example, when The Phantom Pain is released, how about I create a "Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain" thread. For the OP, I'll cover my views on the Metal Gear series and how Phantom Pain is the spiritual successor to Peace Walker in a brief manner. Nothing overtly "opinionated", since Metal Gear Threads tend to go south if someone starts listing their favorite Metal Gear games or ranting about how Metal Gear belongs on PS4/PC by merit of the series' history. But I appreciate your point about the OP needing to provide SOME insight or perspective. I just think the caveat is that there should be greater focus on the game itself rather than the OP's opinion on it.

At the end of the day, opinions about said topic are the only things we can talk about...so an initial opinion (The OP) leads to reactionary opinions and discussion of further opinions...and that's how we end up with a discussion.

One can actually talk about the game or movie in question. One's experiences with it, good or bad. The inherent flaw of using an OP's opinions as the tone setter for a thread is that it risks derailing discussion of the game/movie/etc itself and going rapidly off topic. However, you're not exactly wrong.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Dude, those threads exist, when the game gets a review we then get a big ol' thread for chipping in either opinions on the review OR on the game. Like, when MGS5 comes out we're either going to post in the review thread or (more likely) start a lot of them, probably including a bajillion ones on The Quiet's outfit.

Plus, why would you need it to be 'official'? If you wanna discuss a game then post what you thought of it or ask others what they thought and then it'll start a conversation. Or someone else will make a thread and THAT will. Official threads do nothing you can't have just from starting a thread other than a guarantee your topics will be the most posted in.

 

[votemarvel]

It's a nice idea but I think it would be best if the mods create them.

Way back when I was a regular poster on the Xbox.com forum and we had a great selection of game discussion threads.

For a while it worked really well. There was a 50 page thread limit at the time so at page 49 someone would create a new version and people would transition over.

Then people started to believe there was a certain kudos attached to creating a popular thread. You get them started earlier and earlier, You'd end up with several new versions as people competed to be the thread starter. People would start them even though they had no interest in the game and would never post in the thread beyond starting it.

It honestly got to the point that the moderators there banned them completely rather than put in the effort to organise things.

Sorry for the ramble but the thought of game discussion threads brings back some poor memories.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

Plus, why would you need it to be 'official'?

Fair enough point. I think General Discussion Thread would be a better term. [GDT] or simular. The intent of such a thread is to have a centralised thread for general, non-specific discussion of specific game titles. Say you want to share a funny picture of an animal from Metal Gear Solid. Do you create a new thread "Funny picture of Metal Gear critter!", post it in the "I hate Phantom Pain!" thread, the "I love Phantom Pain!" thread, the "Phantom Pain's PC port is awesome/terrible!" thread, or the "Metal Gear Solid 5 is the spiritual successor to Mario 64!" thread?

I think The Escapist would benefit from a system where games can be allocated a SINGLE thread dedicated to general discussion that doesn't fall under any particular category. In particular, such a thread should be kept very separate from the review thread since discussion of the review is likely to derail discussion of the game itself. This doesn't stop people making their own, more specific threads. But I think it streamlines things somewhat and gives people a special type of thread where they can discuss a game or movie on The Escapist without having the discussion sidelined by the OP's particular point of interest. A thread where the OP *hates* a game is useless to people who like the game. A thread where the OP *loves* a game is useless to people who don't like the game. I think there needs to be a more neutral middle ground.

However, this is just my opinion.

It's a nice idea but I think it would be best if the mods create them.

I actually agree completely. At the very least, mods should control the creation process even if they don't actually write the OPs for said threads. But it's a lot of work, and it would be unfair to expect the Escapist mods to take on that workload.

 

[Lufia Erim]

I feel that in order to stimulate the Escapist community, we should have a semi-organised system of "official threads", NeoGAF-style, for noteworthy game and film releases. It doesn't have to be complicated or fancy -- but when Metal Gear Solid 5 drops, for example, The Escapist should have a centralised thread with a strict no-spoiler policy.

I dunno who should be in charge of deciding who makes the OTs, but in the meantime, I'm gonna create some and see what happens. I think the key to a healthy community is having interesting, relevant topics to talk about. I'll use the format [OT], such as "[OT] Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain."

I've created one as a test.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.881387-OT-Zombi-PS4-XBO-PC-Wii-U-Zombi-U

Nice idea.Except the escapist doesn't want to grow as a healthy community. This place is about staying stagnant and stale while exuding a holier-than-thou attitude so strong a blind man could see it.

Proof. You got a warning for absolutely no reason in the thread you used as an example wanting to breath some life in the forums.

With a half ass "put more things in your OP" excuse as to why you got a warning . When you obviously didn't break any obvious rules. At the very least the mod should have just locked the thread explaining what you did wrong. In more that 1 vague sentence.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I certainly like the idea, but the Escapist forums just aren't healthy enough to support a bunch of specific threads. Neogaf is huge, and vibrant, threads on specific games are bound to get some attention. We aren't lucky enough to get that right now on the Escapist. It's a bit funny that I'm saying this, since I usually don't believe the Escapist forums are close to death like others do, but I admit things feel really slow in general.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

Nice idea.Except the escapist doesn't want to grow as a healthy community. This place is about staying stagnant and stale while exuding a holier-than-thou attitude so strong a blind man could see it.

I think you're being too harsh. The Escapist has much better moderation and a much nicer user base than a vast majority of its peers.

Proof. You got a warning for absolutely no reason in the thread you used as an example wanting to breath some life in the forums.

Regardless of my intentions, the Code of Conduct has rules--admittedly vague--about not creating low content posts that don't contribute anything meaningful. The problem is that under this rule, posting a thread declaring "Half Life 3 will be released tomorrow, here are the details," would technically be a "low content" post. Would the thread fill with posts and content in response to the fact-based OP that doesn't inject any opinion? Sure. But still, them's the rules.

With a half ass "put more things in your OP" excuse as to why you got a warning . When you obviously didn't break any obvious rules. At the very least the mod should have just locked the thread explaining what you did wrong. In more that 1 vague sentence.

In their defense, I probably should have created this thread and then waited a while before creating test ones. I don't think the mods in question really know how to deal with those types of treads because the forum's CoC wasn't created with them in mind. They're just trying to enforce the rules to the best of their ability.

Neogaf is huge, and vibrant, threads on specific games are bound to get some attention.

Which is pretty remarkable considering the rate at which users get banned for absurd and sometimes nonexistent offenses. Kinda reminds me of YOU CAN'T COME.

 

[Drathnoxis]

So let me get this straight. You want a semi-permanent thread for each new big release that comes out. You do realize that this would pretty much flood the forums if it worked how you wanted it to and if it doesn't they would dry up within a week and be pretty much useless.

This isn't 4chan, you can't just come in here and post a picture or a couple words. The Escapist has always been a place that encourages more in depth discussion and there is no point doing that in a general no-spoilers thread when you will get a much better discussion out of a specific thread.

Basically OP, if you don't have anything to say, don't say it.

Also this should be in Off-Topic because it's discussing the forums and not games directly.

EDIT:

Nice idea.Except the escapist doesn't want to grow as a healthy community. This place is about staying stagnant and stale while exuding a holier-than-thou attitude so strong a blind man could see it.

I'm curious as to what soured you on the Escapist so much and caused you to want all your threads locked?

 

[Tilly]

I've seen plenty of sites that have official and organized threads. I much prefer this! So annoying if you want to say something new and interesting but you have to say it on page 40 of a thread, that hardly anyone else will see.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

So let me get this straight. You want a semi-permanent thread for each new big release that comes out.

Yes. There aren't actually that many of them each year, contrary to popular belief.

You do realize that this would pretty much flood the forums if it worked how you wanted it to and if it doesn't they would dry up within a week and be pretty much useless.

Maybe. Maybe not. The purpose of such threads is to facilitate discussion while a game is "topical." But they can theoretically last a very long time if people keep playing and talking.

This isn't 4chan, you can't just come in here and post a picture or a couple words.

4chan has an entire board dedicated to "generals" threads. A thread about emulation, a thread about Metal Gear Solid, a thread about Final Fantasy, a thread about . The point of those singular threads is to discuss the game or topic itself. The OP usually contains relevant information about the game with links and all that jazz. The more active threads usually run to about 700 odd posts, 404, and then get created anew. When people don't want to talk about the games, they disappear.

The Escapist has always been a place that encourages more in depth discussion and there is no point doing that in a general no-spoilers thread when you will get a much better discussion out of a specific thread.

In NeoGAF's case, spoilers must be tagged with

Spoiler

spoiler - Chico is Reznov

tags. If people want to have an in depth discussion on Metal Gear over on 4chan, they go to the Metal Gear general thread over on /vg/. Granted, this has a lot to do with /v/'s erratic board culture. But the underlying principle is solid.

So annoying if you want to say something new and interesting but you have to say it on page 40 of a thread, that hardly anyone else will see.

If said thread has an active population of people who visit it on a frequent basis to see what's new, the post will be seen by people. As for it getting "lost in the wash", at least your post will be part of a thread that people are likely going to read through at in a year's time. Not to say that people shouldn't be allowed to make their own threads. I despise the "you have to post in the official thread" mentality.