oh no, another of THOSE threads!

[Shoggoth2588]

The problem with Skyrim for me is how the plot doesn't insist upon you at all. After the beginning where you're saved you can ignore everyone and, everything and be just fine. Or you can join in the Civil War which is raging about as heavily as the American Civil War is now.

Spoiler

I joined up with The Imperials but that wasn't enough for the Stormcloaks to attack me on sight, even if I enter their encampments. Even after killing Ulfric Stormcloak, the stragglers left me alone.

The Dragons also, don't seem to pop up until you start doing the main quest line. There's absolutely no sense of urgency in the game.

 

[Lunar Templar]

SNIP!

The way I generall outline it is this: After Ultemecia dies (revealing the StableTimeLoop), Time Compression begins to fall apart. After which Squall becomes stuck in transportations between eras. Remember that Laguna said that the way everyone would escape that would be embracing the memories of each other and essentially putting faith in a literal PowerOfFriendship(TM). At first, Squall cannot do this, but in his last, and most decisive victory, he does, after being presented (unexplainedly, admittedly) with the possibility of life without Rinoa. (Basically, the timestream pulls a strawman on him.) That sorta scares him straight, and then he begisn remembering his friends and Rinoa, and is able to return to his time. In true tradition, immediately after that confusing shit is when we get the real happy ending. (FFIX did this same thing 2 years later, except that whole confusing part of the cinematics in FFVIII is the entire final dungeon in FFIX.)

^^;; i don't remember much of 9, cept Necron99 coming out of left field, and Alexander looking awesome

 

[Krantos]

The Dark Brotherhood HAD THAT CORPSE MOTHER THING,

Um... Did YOU play the game? The Sanctuary in Skyirm has been disconnected from the rest of the organization since the last Listener died. When the game starts, there is no Listener. So, no, they are not using the Night Mother to get contracts.

Even when *Spoiler Warning* the Nightmother arrives at the Sanctuary, no one really cares. Without a listener, she's just a dead body.

When people say "how are they getting contracts, they mean in the beginning of the questline. Everyone knows how they're doing it at the end.

 

[Krantos]

The problem with Skyrim for me is how the plot doesn't insist upon you at all. After the beginning where you're saved you can ignore everyone and, everything and be just fine. Or you can join in the Civil War which is raging about as heavily as the American Civil War is now.

Spoiler

I joined up with The Imperials but that wasn't enough for the Stormcloaks to attack me on sight, even if I enter their encampments. Even after killing Ulfric Stormcloak, the stragglers left me alone.

The Dragons also, don't seem to pop up until you start doing the main quest line. There's absolutely no sense of urgency in the game.

Thing is, that's the very thing other people like about the game. Different tastes.

Personally, after playing game after game where a support character shouts in your ear to hurry your ass up, I'm glad I can play a game where I can just do my own thing. It's the same thing I like about Red Dead Redemption.

 

[Austin Howe]

SNIP!

Snip.

^^;; i don't remember much of 9, cept Necron99 coming out of left field, and Alexander looking awesome

Necron is part of the confusing part of the ending. There's no context to him at all, he just shows the fuck up. He's at best foreshadowed in a SINGLE LINE earlier in the SAME DUNGEON. Seriously, what a missed opportunity to create fear in the player by constantly foreshadowing the actual physical manifestation of the force of death? That've been awesome!

 

[Lunar Templar]

SNIP!

Snip.

^^;; i don't remember much of 9, cept Necron99 coming out of left field, and Alexander looking awesome

Necron is part of the confusing part of the ending. There's no context to him at all, he just shows the fuck up. He's at best foreshadowed in a SINGLE LINE earlier in the SAME DUNGEON. Seriously, what a missed opportunity to create fear in the player by constantly foreshadowing the actual physical manifestation of the force of death? That've been awesome!

yeah :/ they did a much better job with Zeromus in FF4. he was still out a left field, but least you knew why he was there

 

[PortalThinker113]

Let's not forget some other games out there that don't seem to get their plotholes pointed out nearly as hard. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 comes to mind. Just watch Yahtzee's review. You'll get it. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5006-Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-3

But, that isn't even close to the vast amount of paradoxes, plotholes and inconsistencies that plague Sonic Generations. For some different reasons (but a lot of the same), I think it might be worse than that '06 thing.

As a matter of fact, if you look on Zero Punctuation, you'll see the pointing out of gobs more games that made way less sense than we ever saw in the ending of Mass Effect 3. At least that game had "Space Magic"!

Really? Sonic Generations? I'm almost afraid to ask, but I'm actually more than a little curious now... What reasons are you referring to?

 

[Vault101]

But no one cares, because the games kick ass. So, yeah, mass effect 3 should have had a MUCH better ending, but it didn't. So get over it. At least your game never decided to make every possible ending to the second game canon at once, and let you sort out the mess.

I dont really get what your trying to say

Mass effect and Skyrim are polar oposites in how they handle story and gameplay

the elder scrolls (I think) pretty mcuh says "go now..run along and find somthing to do" where are Mass effect takes you (grabs/hand cuffs) by the hand and says "let me tell you a story"

hence why they handle the lore differently

Im not abouy to chew on the bones of that dead/reaperfied/killed again hoarse....but yeah, I dont see why your comparing the games

 

[General BrEeZy]

yeeeah, i need to play more Skyrim! xD

 

[Nieroshai]

Well, you have to consider the following factors:

-Many players view the Elder Scrolls games as a great big sandbox to play as whatever fantasy archetype they can think of. The main draw isn't so much the story for them as it is playing any type of character build they want. After all, what other game allows you to play as a bipedal lizard in hellish Daedric armor while toasting enemies with blasts of lightning from your claws?

-As you pointed out, The Elder Scrolls lore frequently changes from game to game. For example, Daggerfall had dragon hatchlings that you could fight, yet later games stated that dragons had been extinct for centuries (until the events of Skyrim, of course). You could even speak with a "dragon" if certain conditions were met:

(Well okay, it's actually the Daedric lord Peryite, but my point still stands)

Long story short, longtime players have become accustomed to the various retcons within the Elder Scrolls universe. Mass Effect on the other hand had a (mostly) cohesive lore that stayed reasonably constant up until the end.

There were a lot of things in two that had people facepalming, especially my DM, like the fact that in the span of 2 years the entire galaxy decided ejectable thermal clips were a good idea and replaced every gun everywhere with them. Fair enough, the Council can presumably do that, ignoring that some mercenaries and colonists would not have the new stuff. But then somehow the crew of Jacob's father all had the newer gear. Then there's 2's decision that cool costumes were more important than giving crewmembers more than rebreathers when in vacuum or hazardous environments. This one's just silly as opposed to being a bad thing, but where before there was not a cigarette to be seen in space, by 2 even elcor were smoking. So was tobacco something humans introduced recently, or have batarians been rolling plants in white paper all along just like us? Also, did grenades just fall out of galactic favor?

I nitpick, yes, but 2 did change some things involving gameplay that really tweaked with the lore in a "I was pretending this wasn't a game, but NOW it's un-ignorable" kind of way.

 

[Fappy]

The ending of Mass Effect betrayed the entire series up to that point in a million ways already discussed to death here on the forums. TES lore is all about perceptions and myth therefore making it whatever the writers need it to be. Most long time TES fans expect this and embrace it.

 

[Fappy]

The skeleton key is probably just another expansion on the whole CHIM thing.

What is the CHIM thing?

CHIM is the idea that the Elder Scrolls universe and everything in it is nothing more than a daydream of a God. When you become aware of that you either zero sum and disappear (like a certain race) or you achieve CHIM and win the ability to travel through time, defy the laws of the world (console commands and the likes). See the teachings of Vivec for more hints.

In short, Micheal Kirkbride is a fucking genius.

Fixed it fer ya.

I love the theory that Vivec thinks you must kill him in order to "win" Morrowind.

 

[DoPo]

The skeleton key is probably just another expansion on the whole CHIM thing.

What is the CHIM thing?

CHIM is the idea that the Elder Scrolls universe and everything in it is nothing more than a daydream of a God. When you become aware of that you either zero sum and disappear (like a certain race) or you achieve CHIM and win the ability to travel through time, defy the laws of the world (console commands and the likes). See the teachings of Vivec for more hints.

In short, Micheal Kirkbride is a fucking nutcase.

In other words, you either become Neo or go "runtime error" out of the world.

 

[mega48man]

And the dark brotherhood just doesn't make sense. Okay, so there is only ONE group of assassins left in tamriel, fine. Obviously they only operate in skyrim, right? except they don't. It specifically mentions that they still operate in most of the provinces, with the havewave that they hear about people performing the ritual that used to summon them. This is impossible. Unless they have an incredibly expansive network of spies in every town and hamlet, they aren't going to hear that someone wants them from across the continent. news of a murder (attempted or otherwise) isn't going to spread that far. If they DO have that powerful spy network, they are powerful enough to have other assassin centers besides the one in skyrim.

This was addressed. The only way they find out is through hearing rumors of someone performing The Black Sacrament. Much like how you did when you found out about the boy in Windhelm. So it takes them a lot longer to actually reach a customer.

the dark brotherhood also does have it's spies scattered throughout skyrim. Having already joined the brotherhood, i was minding my own business in Windhelm once, just goin all CIS on the crime scene, and i guard random whispers to me "PSSST, i know who you are, hail sithus!"

I jumped in my chair a little and went "WHAT DA FAAACK?"

so this goes to show that the Dark Brotherhood have more eyes and ears in more places than you may think. also, when you've established the new HQ in dawnstar the night mother lets you know someone's making the black sacrament like your iPhone goes off when you get a facebook update.