Old social values you could get behind

bliebblob

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As classist, racist and misogynist as ye olden times were I do sometimes envy the clear rules they had back then on miscellaneous social situations: clearly outlined dress codes, husband always pays for dinner, no speaking to people you haven't been introduced to... That sort of thing. A far cry from nowadays where supposedly things are a lot more freeform, except when they're not at all.

Secondly, if the stories from my parents are to be believed, students and school children these days are a bunch of spineless squids compared to several decades ago. Education was a lot more oppressive back then and yet they still got away with some incredible shenanigans, not to mention the legendary student protests they pulled off in their university/college years. By contrast, the people I went to high school with all hated the principal's guts for various (very legitimate) reasons. As did the majority of the teachers! But did anyone ever address the issues in any way ever? Nope. Not a single word, prank or parody in four years. Not even on the Hundred Days festival which is a local tradition where the pupils in their final year of high school take over the school for a day and parody the staff.
 

C. Cain

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CpT_x_Killsteal said:
If i had to guess, I'd say it would have originated at some time during medieval Europe, primarily among knights and nobility.
I'm inclined to concur - to a certain degree. The notion of chivalry did indeed exist and was essentially supposed to be the code of conduct for knights. That said, not only were knights a minority among the population of medieval Europe, they were also not united in applying said code of conduct.
Take for instance the robber Barons. This expression is derived from the practice of certain knights or nobles to impose ?unjust? tolls; thus there was a large enough number of knights who defied these values in favour of money, power, and status. It even entered our contemporary vocabulary as an expression, albeit with a slightly different meaning (namely unscrupulous businessmen).
 

San Martin

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Entitled said:
Purity culture.

Well, I would prefer a more gender-neutral version of it, where women don't get singled out with slut-shaming like they always were and are. But in principle, I would prefer it if everyone would be encouraged to keep their pants on.
Why do you say that? What's wrong with sexy, sweaty carnality?
 

Thaluikhain

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Oh...I do sorta like how a guy could always wear a suit, no matter what was going on.
 

JoJo

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Dirty Hipsters said:
I really wouldn't mind if "children should neither be seen nor heard" made a comeback.
I'm pretty sure the phrase was "children should be seen but not heard" but anyhow, it was just a stuffy Victorian idea which thankfully been consigned to the dustbin of history along with most of the other bigoted attitudes of that era.

OT: Sign me up for the free love of the 60's, while I suspect it's partly a myth at this point it'd be cool if people were a little less caught up about sexual orientation and slut/virgin shaming.
 

L. Declis

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thaluikhain said:
Leading from the front and going down with the ship...though exactly when and how much these were things is debatable.

You're in a position of responsibility, and you don't do your job, there should be consequences. No golden parachutes, no "I didn't know about this thing I really should have", if you want credit you have to take blame.
This is something I like.

Agayek said:
More seriously: Honestly, I'd kinda like it if the traditional "nuclear family" became more of a thing again. I don't mean the "the working dad, the housewife, 2.4 kids, and a white picket fence", Leave it to Beaver style thing, but that actually having a stable home and family environment would be returned to a high cultural prominence and be something people actively work toward.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but there just doesn't seem to be the same push for that as there was in yesteryear. I've seen a lot of people come from broken homes. I've seen a lot more people have kids when they really, obviously weren't ready for it, and neither the kid nor the parent(s) ever came out better off. I'd really, really like it if we as a culture started emphasizing and glorifying the prepared, complete family again instead of disdaining it.
Damn, I came onto this thread to write this.

In the U.K, where I grew up (in the South, bruv), people were often impressed and the default assumption is that your parents are divorced. I remember I was about 12 before I had met someone of my generation who had both parents together and being seriously impressed by it.

I know that it kinda messes with you, and even today, I often say to my girlfriend "I want you to meet my parent..." tripping over the "s" that is supposed to be there. I know my mother did everything she could and I love her, but I honestly intend that when I get married, that is it. I won't have a broken house, I won't cheat and I will make sure my family is happy.

It is probably a sad statement on society when that is considered a lofty goal... A happy family.

Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Family Values, owning up to ones mistakes and successes alike, integrity, etc. Shit people today have seemed to have lost not only the definition to but the books it was written on and any semblance of where/when it happened to disappear. Work ethics are in the toilet, for the most part. People I know/have known complaining about entry level jobs paying them a minimum wage but they do little to nothing to improve their skillset or show their bosses that they're worth more than the entry-level position they just got hired at.
Oh god, this. I hate it when people put no effort into their resume or work. Like they have a dream and then just don't bother taking any steps towards it because they are not close yet. It's frustrating.

davidmc1158 said:
Fat people being more sexually desirable. Seriously, back when food was a constant worry, if you were fat, the ladies all knew you had the scratch to live through the lean times. You were a fine catch.
Yeah, but people think this meant that being 'obese' was attractive. It wasn't. It was the chubby, even fat people. Not the scooter riding level of fat.

Even in the Ancient Times, you should look at their idea of beauty. Curvy, chubby, but not stretch marks McHamPlanet.
 

Entitled

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San Martin said:
Entitled said:
Purity culture.

Well, I would prefer a more gender-neutral version of it, where women don't get singled out with slut-shaming like they always were and are. But in principle, I would prefer it if everyone would be encouraged to keep their pants on.
Why do you say that? What's wrong with sexy, sweaty carnality?
For the same reason most other posters say their own ideas above: Because I'm just old-fashioned that way.

I don't think that there is anything immoral either about free love, or about the present day hookup culture, but then again, neither do I think that there is anything immoral about e-books, but I can still get nostalgic about old printed books with faded pages. Likewise, it's easy to get sentimental about the times when chastity was a virtue, that didn't need to justify itself with the cold logic of universal moral imperatives, just appreciated for what it is.
 

carnex

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Let's see

Removing from society anyone who is opposed to goverement's mandate, morality and laws.
That would work.

Jus joking

Out of all old values, I would like that people take institution of marriage more seriously. Both in form of who they are getting married to and commitment to marriage (before anyone asks, I do not support domestic violence and abuse in any way shape or form, bugger off).

But then, as with many others here, I'm spewing utopia.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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romanticisation of a past that never existed ahoy!

Entitled said:
Likewise, it's easy to get sentimental about the times when chastity was a virtue, that didn't need to justify itself with the cold logic of universal moral imperatives, just appreciated for what it is.
what it is was a thing deisgned to ensure you knew whos children were whos....and by extension opress and control women



Agayek said:
More seriously: Honestly, I'd kinda like it if the traditional "nuclear family" became more of a thing again. I don't mean the "the working dad, the housewife, 2.4 kids, and a white picket fence", Leave it to Beaver style thing, but that actually having a stable home and family environment would be returned to a high cultural prominence and be something people actively work toward.
a stable environment is a by-product of good socio-ecenomic standing

[quote/]Maybe I'm just cynical, but there just doesn't seem to be the same push for that as there was in yesteryear. I've seen a lot of people come from broken homes. I've seen a lot more people have kids when they really, obviously weren't ready for it, and neither the kid nor the parent(s) ever came out better off.[/quote]
that happened in the past too...except you know the guy might run off and not be accountable, your baby might have been forced to go into adoption....orrr mabye you could get a backyard abortion....at a discount


[quote/]I'd really, really like it if we as a culture started emphasizing and glorifying the prepared, complete family again instead of disdaining it.[/quote]
depending on what the modern equivalent would be...the nuclear family has some baggage attached to it

CpT_x_Killsteal said:
If i had to guess, I'd say it would have originated at some time during medieval Europe, primarily among knights and nobility.
yeeeeeaaaahhhh....as I understand they didn't really practice that shit.....

those are just kinda vague concepts, I mean people were probably polite as hell in the 1800's but the thing is its all to varying degrees

you know "ladies"? well that was pretty cool to be a "lady"...except to have that honor you had to be rich...otherwise you weren't worth crap

Uriel_Hayabusa said:
I feel that some parts of society have become entirely too sympathetic towards criminal behavior, to the point that certain criminal actions will be blamed on things like poverty or racism or a crappy childhood or something else that's ''out of that person's control''. The way I see it, anyone who blames outside factors for their criminal actions is only looking for excuses.
I think its very easy for people (particularly privileged people) to spout the ever comforting "take responsibility for your actions" thing

[i/]now don't get me wroooooong[/i] when people do bad shit they made bad choices....thats on them

the thing is though...disenfranshisement is the MAIN cause of most social ill's...well adjused people from stable backgrounds and a stable environment generally don't do a lot of bad shit (for various reasons)
 

Queen Michael

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Toplessness being discouraged both among men and women. Men, keep your shirts on, please.
 

spartan231490

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I could really get behind the old fashion value of personal responsibility. I'm sick of fucktwats who think the world owes them for breathing. I'm sick of this sue happy culture where, even though it's your fault, and even though it makes everyone's life suckier in the long run, you sue someone on the off chance of getting a boat-load of cash. I'm sick of SJW telling me I'm victim shaming when I warn someone not to go out alone at night, or to lock their doors. This culture has now demonized anyone who takes responsibility, instead encouraging people to act like the victim and expect the world to bend to their wishes.
 

San Martin

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Entitled said:
San Martin said:
Entitled said:
Purity culture.

Well, I would prefer a more gender-neutral version of it, where women don't get singled out with slut-shaming like they always were and are. But in principle, I would prefer it if everyone would be encouraged to keep their pants on.
Why do you say that? What's wrong with sexy, sweaty carnality?
For the same reason most other posters say their own ideas above: Because I'm just old-fashioned that way.

I don't think that there is anything immoral either about free love, or about the present day hookup culture, but then again, neither do I think that there is anything immoral about e-books, but I can still get nostalgic about old printed books with faded pages. Likewise, it's easy to get sentimental about the times when chastity was a virtue, that didn't need to justify itself with the cold logic of universal moral imperatives, just appreciated for what it is.
Fair enough. I'm not here to judge, and from the sounds of it, neither are you.

With you on e-books. I think they're a great invention, good for the environment, and I read lots of them. But if I can choose, it's nice to read an old printed book; you can smell the history!
 

Lilani

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May 27, 2009
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Entitled said:
Purity culture.

Well, I would prefer a more gender-neutral version of it, where women don't get singled out with slut-shaming like they always were and are. But in principle, I would prefer it if everyone would be encouraged to keep their pants on.
All purity culture really does is make people ashamed of their sexuality and unable to cope with it when the time is "right."

http://thoughtcatalog.com/samantha-pugsley/2014/08/i-waited-until-my-wedding-night-to-lose-my-virginity-and-i-wish-i-hadnt/

And I don't really see this changing even if you make it gender-neutral. At least when it's only heaped upon girls at least ONE gender is allowed to grow into their sexuality relatively naturally, and without shame or expectations they don't even fully understand.

Uriel_Hayabusa said:
I feel that some parts of society have become entirely too sympathetic towards criminal behavior, to the point that certain criminal actions will be blamed on things like poverty or racism or a crappy childhood or something else that's ''out of that person's control''. The way I see it, anyone who blames outside factors for their criminal actions is only looking for excuses.

David Draiman, the lead singer of Disturbed (a band I don't particularly like, by the way) said something about this subject that perfectly encapsulate my feelings:

''The minute that you start blaming everything around you for why somebody loses their goddamn mind is the minute that everybody comes up with an excuse to be a maniac''

Source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOCP-nQvPzg
Well, considering poverty, lack of education, and lack of a proper family structure are all things which are known to increase the likelihood of criminal behavior, I think it makes perfect sense to be sympathetic to people in those situations and people who are forced to lead those lives. Yes, I say FORCED. People who are born poor are much more likely to not finish high school and remain poor themselves. As much as I love and respect Bill Cosby, I hate it when my (overwhelmingly white) friends and family quote his little speeches on how black people today and serving themselves badly. Yes, he grew up during a time of horrible discrimination and was treated badly and unfairly when he first entered the entertainment business.

However, he had two parents who both stayed together, both worked, both made sure he had the best educational opportunities, encouraged him to succeed in these avenues, and instilled in him the value of hard work. And he was rewarded for his efforts--his educational and professional success grew through his hard work. Now there is a poisonous culture that exists in poor urban areas which doesn't value education, family structure, or professional success. Most children are in broken families, and the people in their neighborhoods who have money don't have it because of jobs, they have it because they're in gangs or sell drugs or other illicit things. Parents don't instill in their children "traditional values" because they themselves weren't raised with them, and nor in their life were they rewarded for having them. Having an education doesn't get you success in that world, committing crime and serving time does.

People aren't born with good values intact, they are greatly influenced by the environment they're raised in and the opportunities which they are given. People who are poor have very few opportunities, and people raised around crime are forced to tolerate or even join in it just to protect themselves. America has the most stringent punishments of any first world country--we imprison people for the longest lengths of time, we imprison people starting at the youngest ages, we still execute people which most civilized countries have stopped doing, and we have solitary confinement which most countries and even the UN recognize is a form of psychological torture. Yet we have the highest rate of imprisonment of any civilized country, and the worst recidivism rates. Obviously punishment is not getting us anywhere, because a lack of discipline is not the root of the problem.

Anyway, on topic, the only one I can really think of and not despise the reason it existed or the way it was originally carried out is family dinners. I suppose one reason family dinners don't often happen anymore is because with both parents working there isn't a lot of time left over to cook, but at least on the weekends it's a good thing. Hell even if you don't have a family and it's just you and your spouse it's a great way to spend time and not be consumed by other things for a few moments.
 

Jack Action

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CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Honour, dignity, respect, pride; and I'm not talking about the "I must keep this secret to preserve my honour", I mean people holding themselves accountable for their own actions. Taking responsibility, that kind of thing. Very few people seem to hold these values these days, some even laugh them off as medieval, mostly people who prefer "Money, Power, and Status" or "Greed is good". God how I hate those people.
Seconded. If you've got dignity, you're seen as arrogant. Respect's been replaced with ass-kissing. Asking for donations online so you can do whatever you want is seen as acceptable and encouraged. Nothing's ever your fault. Failure = the world's conspiring against you, instead of your skills being inadequate.

Is ours really a 'better' world, in this regard?
 

ClockworkPenguin

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None really. They either survived and therefore aren't 'old', never really existed, had good reasons to be removed or whilst agreeable either have been or could be replaced by superior values.

For example, noblese oblige. It would be better if people in power recognized the role fortune and the rest of society played in their success and accordingly felt a duty to help the less fortunate.

However, I don't want to see it return, because whilst we're in the realm of pure social speculation, lets just replace it with a properly meritocratic and just system with an adequate safety net.

Nostalgia just isn't the same these days. When I were a kid, old folk had proper golden ages to look back on, where everything were better because reasons. They didn't get bogged down with this 'self awareness' and 'sense of perspective' malarky.
 

Death_Cometh

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I'm actually quite happy with the current social values we have because for all the abuse the system suffers (something I am not happy about but will abide with) we are living in a relatively free society where anyone can within reason become anything and the freedom to be anything. We look at these old institutions with rose tinted glasses and only see the good parts and not the terrible parts. We forget these things changed for a reason.

People who complain about the "death" of the institution of marriage forget that when the idea of marriage was formed people didn't live as long so "till death do us part" usually meant till you died of exhaustion from working and having children. and As Vault 101 mentioned this was to keep women and children oppressed and to sort out who's children were who's. People who are in their 40s now will probably live to be a hundred and people in their 20s will live to be 120+ and loving and living with someone that long will just become more and more difficult.
 

Teriver

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I don't know whether or not it can be considered "old world" but I would like to see a resurgence in people keeping their word.
It used to be that breaking your word was considered the height of scumbaggery but now people do it all the time, especially in politics but then when have politicians not broken their word.
I think it would just be nice to know that if promised told you they were going to do something then they would.
 

Rabbitboy

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Queen Michael said:
Toplessness being discouraged both among men and women.
WHAT?!

OT: Being able to wear a speedo on the beach without raising questions about your sexual orientation.
 

grey_space

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I would like to bring back the code duello. People wold talk less shite and be infinitely more courteous if they knew that they would be called ou for being shits. Also, everyone would train more because they would have to. And violent individuals would would have both a legal outlet and a way of keeping themselves off the streetss attacking innocent people.