On Remakes and Nostalgia

[gillebro]

A pretty interesting insight, as always. Yahtzee has once again shown that he's a pretty intelligent bloke. Personally I love Mario games, but it's the idea of each one being unique, more than anything else, that allows me to enjoy them. I'll probably play NSMBWii if and when I'm able to afford it, and I'll enjoy it too, but only because it will essentially be the same as Super Mario Bros; a game that I can play for free on the computer and that has the classic 8-bit graphics that simply cannot lose their charm.
I couldn't resist a smile at Yahtzee's God comment, and I have to admire his balls. Saying that kind of stuff in Australia can be a bit risky, if my past experience has taught me anything.

 

[Jin-Roh]

This Was a great Read.

But I predict that Mario is still gonna live.

Yes, Mario will live on just like Sonic. But it will be in the idea of this is fun for the kids. And it will be dumed down too.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

He should have been left in Space? Then I await your Super Mario Galaxy 2 Review--will they make it a piece of toast, or will it be a whole new sandwich? And I really like that he had that after thought, that it was perhaps just a little too far. Is it effective sarcasm? Sure. Is it offensive and insulting to the tune of the rest of his noted speech? Of course. But that afterthought keeps him this side of douchebaggery--he was staying in character, and had to clear it up. That he had that thought keeps him from becoming one of his much ridiculed surly protagonists whom have no emotion or self doubt, those traits that keep us human. Regardless of how he actually believes on the matter, he recognized that he was becoming a cheap one-liner, and has the opportunity to prevent it next time. So good, Yahtzee. It's nice to see you stay human.

Am I the only one who wants the next super mario game to be a grim and gritty noir setting with other popular nintendo characters?

There Will Be Brawl?

But does Tetris have any presence in anyone's minds when they aren't actually playing it? Any emotional impact?

When you dream, you don't see them, do you? Those Tet-pieces, ever falling, lining up? Occasionally, there are viruses from Dr Mario amongst them, and do you know how frustrating it is to wipe them out? Tetris pieces intermixed with pills, to take out lines and viruses? And then you realize that not only are the Tet-pieces and Pills in your dreams, but you're actually playing, and doing well? That you are so familiar with it that your subconscious is even winning, insofar as one can actually win at Tetris? If that's not an emotional impact, then I've no idea what is.

 

[Xirdarch]

around

After space, where the hell are you supposed to go? And don't say Alternate Dimensions and cross overs please.

Technically, Mario already did alternate dimensions (Super Paper Mario).




Anyway, as Mario has very, very, very little plot in his games (JUST enough for him to have something to do...ignoring the rpgs, of course), I really don't see the problem in heading backwards in a series like this, especially when the gameplay is greatly refined when compared to Super Mario World, his last console 2D platformer.

But your forgeting Mario Party 4-8 in which the whole cast of mario were simply standing around when a giant box full of drug fuelled fun astounded them with shitty minigames and dice rolls whilst simultaniously stealing all their cash.

 

[MuD3]

well... i haven't played "new" super mario bros. wii, but i am somewhat looking forward to it. even if i do despise the wii and curse my wife for bringing that abomination into our home. the ONLY mario games i have ever liked are super mario bros. and super mario bors. 3. every other mario game ever created can go suck a cock for all i care. so naturally i'm some what excited to play a mario game that is actually what a mario game is to me... a 2D platformer. thats what i want out of mario...

 

[squid5580]

But does Tetris have any presence in anyone's minds when they aren't actually playing it? Any emotional impact?

Yes: the emotion is called "fun", and once you have it, the next time you want it, Tetris will come back to your mind.

That's how cravings work.

No one said the story has to be good. It just has to exist. Doom wouldn't be very good if all you got was go kill that! Why? Because I the developer said so. Instead you get go kill that because they are bad guys. It may not be deep or complex or even good and that doesn't matter. As long as you are getting a reason to do what you are supposed to other than "because I said so"

That's not a story, that's a setting.

"Rescue Pauline from Donkey Kong" isn't a story, not is ascending the building evading barrels and flames.

Pacman's setup is "Pacman eats dots while he's chased by ghosts!"; there's no story whatsoever. Ms Pacman's "story" is "This is Pacman's wife".

Videogames, fundamentally, don't need stories, only setups or goals. Sometimes stories enrichen the experience, but believing that they are required is a flawed notion.

It's like asking for the backstory of Simon from "Simon Says".

Donkey Kong kidnapped Pauline is the story. PacMan and his wife being chased by ghosts while they eat is the story.

Simon Says, Tetris and Peggle to name a few are the exceptions. They are the crossword puzzle next to the Sunday Funnies. Their only purpose is to challenge the player. All other games that aren't puzzle games are designed to challenge through motivation.

 

[mrtenk]

Yahtzee, it's hard to put mario down when he's nintendo's mascot. That'd be like Bungie putting down the Master Chief, or you putting down the imp.

No, I don't agree we should abandon Mario all together. How about Nintendo get's together a team of crack specialists to find something interesting to do with the Mario franchise.

I propose Nintendo makes an adult mario game. something with more mature themes. I mean, afterall, mario's core audience back in the 80's are now adults anyways, so it's about time Nintendo takes that into account. maybe somthing dark and very self aware in terms of it's humor. Give Princess Peach, Mario, Bowser, and Luigi some human qualities. Make a legible universe that parodies our own.

It's not like Nintendo Can't move on, it's that it chooses not too. All the franchise remakes make me sick. I think it's about time they take there trademark videogames and characters and have fun with them.

 

[Warstratigier]

Whether it be gods or gaming, those that embrace fanatic zealotry over them will always do more harm than good, if not all harm and no good.

 

[Cocamaster]

Donkey Kong kidnapped Pauline is the story. PacMan and his wife being chased by ghosts while they eat is the story.

I "suppose" this is intended to support your argument, but it actually doesn't; it supports mine.

If you altered those words to mean something different (Pauline is a construction worker and donkey Kong is throwing her barrels away) or removed them entirely from the universe, the objective of the games would remain the same: "get to the top of the building" and "eat all dots".

In any case, the so-called "story" ends before the game even begins, creating the setup for the game and then dissapearing completelly.

Narrative is none-existant. The game flows because the goals, not the story, drive the action. Pretty much every early videogame is an example of this and making claims of the importance of story equals dismissing gaming's roots.

 

[Sentient6]

He REALLY likes his branston pickles, doesn't he?

 

[4484448444844484]

It may be just toast, but it's the best damn toast you'll ever have.

 

[funguy2121]

I really can't understand this antipathy towards this new Mario game. Hasn't every Zelda game follwed what is essentially the same formula as it's predecessors with a new gimmick or two?
Even with the transition into three dimensions, they kept the core gameplay, and those games would have worked in the old top-down format.
Look at the DS iterations of Zelda. Quite similar to the SNES/Gameboy era. Utilizing the stylus, but essentially unchanged.
Adding new elements to a much-loved formula is okay.

What I'm worried about is Mario Galaxy 2. Couldn't they think of a new setting?

I understand your Zelda comparison, but I think Yahtzee's big beef with it (as well as mine) is that this is basically the first new console side scrolling Mario game in over 14 years, but this game really brings NOTHING new to the Mario series in terms of innovation or new gameplay. This game should have at LEAST been more robust than SMB3, but it isn't. There's less suit powers, many of the levels blatantly rip off elements of previous Mario games, and the additions of Wii waggles, Toad escort missions, and multiplayer seem to degrade the experience more than anything. I mean hell, the plot and mission style is a direct copy of SMB 3. If this game had come out for the N64 or even the Gamecube, these issues would be a bit more tolerable. But in this day and age, it just seems to come across as lazy and falling back on "Nostalgia" as an excuse to not try and make any real improvements to the formula, which the Mario series is in DIRE need of.

"Blatantly rip off?" I know you said a great deal more than this and I agree with some of it but I just cannot become un-stuck from this "blatant rip off" notion. Just call me Billy Pilgrim, but did you really say that the makers of Mario blatantly ripped off the makers of Mario?

Hey, didja hear the new U2 album?

Nah, I stopped listening after they started ripping off all of U2's old stuff.

No hard feelings, please don't flame...

 

[Basslover]

Who cares if the game doesn't do anything new and who cares if it doesn't have a compelling story? The point is that it's fun, you just pick up the pad, play for a while and have fun. I don't care that it players like Mario 3, Mario 3 isn't magically going to make pop and get new levels nor power ups. Also, who cares where you go to after space? The point is that it is still enjoyable. I just see this as another example of Yathzee's pretentiousness and another fantastic showing of why I preferred him when he just did the Zero Punctuation and didn't get a column.

Games are supposed to be fun, and the new Mario does that, the reason Nintendo can get away with doing this year after year is a track-record of quality on the core franchise and it is still there, not like some poor Hedgehog who doesn't know what to do anymore. As long as that quality is there, they will still be marketable and people will still enjoy them, the moment it starts screwing up like Sonic, Mario will start getting ignored, it's as simple as that.

Amen

 

[The Big Eye]

Regarding the opening paragraph: I'm getting the impression (not really from this article, but still) that many members of both the religious/spiritual side of things and the atheist/nihilist side are fully assured of the truth of their beliefs. I'm not talking about the GOD IS REAL!!!!!! types or the THERE IS NO GOOOOD!!!!! types, but the ones who are filled with such calm certainty that it's impossible to get a serious emotional response out of them, let alone change their preceptions.

I think that to jump to either side of the fence requires a great big leap of faith - nothing more, nothing less. Ultimately, it's really just a matter of how one feels the world ought to be.

Went off on a bit of a tangent there, I know. Slightly more OT:
Is it just me, or has Yahtzee started sounding angrier as of late? I know that he's always been a badass critic sort of person, but these days it feels more like he's trying to inject the required amount of caustic wit into the material. I'm wondering if he really is still this angry about stuff (you'd think that, these days, he'd have a good deal less to gripe about, what with the wealth and fame and accolades and all), or if he's simply trying to put on a good show for us. Either way, it's kinda wearing thin for me.

 

[BobSacamano]

I will have to rely on Yahtzee's own words on Painkiller to defend Left 4 Dead 2: "any game in which you can make all of the enemies' limbs fly off in many different directions is already a work of art." Lack of story be damned.

Ohhhhh that's right, the Australian version didn't have limbs flying off. I can understand why he wasn't very impressed now.

 

[Russian Redneck]

I don't give a damn about what future histories one hundred years from now will think of our generation since we won't be alive to witness their recounts. So, I'll continue to blissfully feed the cesspool of escapist cultural faggotry by purchasing and playing new Mario games Nintendo continues to release, as well as watching shitty 80s cartoon feature film remakes, and enjoy it, thank you very much! =)

 

[edthehyena]

Reading this after reading the article about games developers keep playing makes me think about L4D(2). He's wrong when he says that games that get by without a plot and are pure gameplay aren't lasting. They have some of the best replay value. A game that tells a story is like a book -- once you finish it, you know the story, and there's little reason to play it again. If you do play it again, it's different the next time around.

A game like L4D, the civilization games, or my favorite TF2 doesn't have that degradation of story, because there is no story. These games are different every time you play, and they still have all the same fun mechanics.

Also, this argument that Mario has gone 3-d and now can't go back because it's going backwards is just wrong.