On the recent puppy-throwing...

[AlanShore]

Pardon me if I don't trust you.

Pardon me if I don't care.

I'm so glad that you know everyone and what they want.
That must be a very handy skill to have.

It is, yes. Come on, you honestly think that people actually dream about being a cab driver / toiler cleaner / other menial job one day and the majority of them ended up in those jobs because they really want to and not because they didn't apply themselves?

 

[Cmwissy]

You could always just not have pets, if you're expecting to have to 'tap' a bunch of kittens on the head later on. A little foresight, less killing. Also, spaying and neutering can save on needless tapping. You owe it to your pet- it is a responsibility.

Getting a pet in rural southern France isn't what's it like getting a pet in Whereveryoulive-land, allow me to explain.

You can't simply go to a pet shop and buy a pet and then continue to look after it for the next 18 years before it dies, in fact, I can't even remember a pet shop being near us. And after that you can't go to a local veterinarian and get the pets spayed or neutered for a small price.

All our dogs/cats were either wild or stray, most of them wandered around our house every so often for a couple of months in search of food, we then eventually started feeding them out of pity or annoyance, they started hanging around more and they were our 'pets', they couldn't be spayed or neutered because we had no way of getting to the 'local' vet that was 50 miles 'down the road', this happened 3 or 4 times with both cats and dogs and they all got pregnant.

We did our best to look after 3 dogs and 7 cats but since the majority of them were female and we *could not* (Unless you think I should've gone to town on their lowers with a rock?) spay them, so when we were expecting double the amount of pups and kittens we had to do something, so we did exactly what our neighbors who lived on the other side of the mountain did and drowned them.(Like the complete monsters we are)


Of-course, we also searched around for bus services and taxi services that would allow pets (Or bus or taxi services at all) on board, we also asked around for anyone who wanted pets, anyone with more advice (Which was all the same "Drown them") and any other way. But you don't want to hear that, you just want to hear about how monstrous we are.

They were kittens just a moment ago.

We've killed both - We're complete monsters.

 

[Scout Tactical]

Now, this is the first topic I've actually decided to start myself so bear with me on this. Watching the massive outburst of anger on most forums in regards to the video of the teenage girl throwing puppies in the river, I immediately started thinking one thing.

"Do people have any idea how many HUMAN BEINGS die every day for no good reason?"

Now allow me to explain that. I just can't get my head around the amount of outrage that this has caused. Yes, it's a sick act and I'd just as happily throw the girl into a river herself, but is it really -that- big a news story that some puppies got killed? Thousands drown in floods in some hellhole and it barely raises any eyebrows, but a girl throwing puppies in the river and everyone's greasing up the sniper rifles for a takedown. It's not the first time this has happened either (US Marine throws puppy off cliff-video, for example), so for added discussion value I'm going to ask...

Why does something like cute puppies being hurt merit such a strong response from people, while simultaneous human suffering elsewhere seems to go unnoticed? Or is it just me being a cynic, to begin with? Now discuss!

I quoted you directly, OP, so that I could give you this reading material.

"A single death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic." -Erich Maria Remarque
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AMillionIsAStatistic

"Kicking the Dog is the fodder of anything resembling a modern-day Morality Play. A character performs an act so casual and immoral that you know that they are scum." - TVTropes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog

Simply put, this combines the two attributes people hate the most: a murderer with a low kill count, and innocent victims who can't defend themselves, and can be picked off casually.

 

[Baby Tea]

Come on, you honestly think that people actually dream about being a cab driver / toiler cleaner / other menial job one day and the majority of them ended up in those jobs because they really want to and not because they didn't apply themselves?

No, I believe that people can be happy and still have worth while doing those jobs!
And I don't look down on them from my pretentious high-horse simply because of their career.
I know janitors who are quite happy! I know cab drivers who are happy! I know farmers who are happy! These people aren't so insecure that they need to prove to themselves, or anyone else, that their worth is based on their career or formal education. Especially since both of those factors presupposes all sorts of things! Opportunity, finances, social status, location, etc.

And if you think they are so useless, drive yourself to work, clean your own office, fix your own car, and grow your own food.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

well i'm not agreeing with what she did was right but, disposing of unwanted puppies or kittens by throwing them in rivers has been around for quite a while especially in the more eastern part or europe.

That's absolute bullshit.

True, but the standard farming practice is to drown them in a bucket... in rural farming areas of england and america. Or at least it was for the last 200 years. However this was an unsavory act and no farmer enjoyed doing it, unlike this girl who revels in the murder.

 

[the December King]

You could always just not have pets, if you're expecting to have to 'tap' a bunch of kittens on the head later on. A little foresight, less killing. Also, spaying and neutering can save on needless tapping. You owe it to your pet- it is a responsibility.

Getting a pet in rural southern France isn't what's it like getting a pet in Whereveryoulive-land, allow me to explain.

You can't simply go to a pet shop and buy a pet and then continue to look after it for the next 18 years before it dies, in fact, I can't even remember a pet shop being near us. And after that you can't go to a local veterinarian and get the pets spayed or neutered for a small price.

All our dogs/cats were either wild or stray, most of them wandered around our house every so often for a couple of months in search of food, we then eventually started feeding them out of pity or annoyance, they started hanging around more and they were our 'pets', they couldn't be spayed or neutered because we had no way of getting to the 'local' vet that was 50 miles 'down the road', this happened 3 or 4 times with both cats and dogs and they all got pregnant.

We did our best to look after 3 dogs and 7 cats but since the majority of them were female and we *could not* (Unless you think I should've gone to town on their lowers with a rock?) spay them, so when we were expecting double the amount of pups and kittens we had to do something, so we did exactly what our neighbors who lived on the other side of the mountain did and drowned them.(Like the complete monsters we are)


Of-course, we also searched around for bus services and taxi services that would allow pets (Or bus or taxi services at all) on board, we also asked around for anyone who wanted pets, anyone with more advice (Which was all the same "Drown them") and any other way. But you don't want to hear that, you just want to hear about how monstrous we are.

They were kittens just a moment ago.

We've killed both - We're complete monsters.

Don't feed strange animals unless you're ready to take them in, I guess would be an appropriate reaction.

So in how long a time span were you basically neglecting to take care of your animals? It happened FOUR times, and during that entire timespan, you had no access to a vehicle? And basically everyone in 'rural southern france' around you was a selfish prick, because in all that time no one could help you out?

You're right, this seems monstrous. But to me, it's monstrous in your initial neglect, not in the barbaric act that naturally has to follow.

 

[Xcelsior]

I laughed my ass off at the puppy video

Phew, at least I wasn't the only one. Seriously, though what that girl did was horrible.

 

[AlanShore]

No, I believe that people can be happy and still have worth while doing those jobs!
And I don't look down on them from my pretentious high-horse simply because of their career.
I know janitors who are quite happy! I know cab drivers who are happy! I know farmers who are happy! These people aren't so insecure that they need to prove to themselves, or anyone else, that their worth is based on their career or formal education. Especially since both of those factors presupposes all sorts of things! Opportunity, finances, social status, location, etc.

And if you think they are so useless, drive yourself to work, clean your own office, fix your own car, and grow your own food.

While they may be happy, my original point on the first page was that they were unremarkable (i.e, ordinary, average, nothing special and ultimately forgettable) and I don't see why people put humans on some kind of pedestal compared to other forms of life.

And I do drive myself to work, clean my own office, fix my own car and grow my own vegetables. Especially cleaning my office as the woman who does it at the moment can't even do that properly.

 

[-Samurai-]

I see all these people talking about how puppies can't defend themselves. Can infants and toddlers? Can they fight back before they're killed? Are they aware of what's happening to them?

About 2 weeks ago a local woman gave birth. She put her new born infant in a car seat and threw it into a river. Where were the people rallying for the rights of that human child? Bitching about some damn puppies.
[small]I'd love to find a link to the article, but anything having to do with the words "thrown into a river" brings up links to this girl and the puppies(I'll keep searching, though).[/small]

 

[IamQ]

Now, this is the first topic I've actually decided to start myself so bear with me on this. Watching the massive outburst of anger on most forums in regards to the video of the teenage girl throwing puppies in the river, I immediately started thinking one thing.

"Do people have any idea how many HUMAN BEINGS die every day for no good reason?"

Now allow me to explain that. I just can't get my head around the amount of outrage that this has caused. Yes, it's a sick act and I'd just as happily throw the girl into a river herself, but is it really -that- big a news story that some puppies got killed? Thousands drown in floods in some hellhole and it barely raises any eyebrows, but a girl throwing puppies in the river and everyone's greasing up the sniper rifles for a takedown. It's not the first time this has happened either (US Marine throws puppy off cliff-video, for example), so for added discussion value I'm going to ask...

Why does something like cute puppies being hurt merit such a strong response from people, while simultaneous human suffering elsewhere seems to go unnoticed? Or is it just me being a cynic, to begin with? Now discuss!

It's not always that you see leaked videos of murder of humans. Sure, there are sites for that, but no one links things from those sites. If someone on a major site did it, it would probably get just as much attention.

 

[Cmwissy]

Don't feed strange animals unless you're ready to take them in, I guess would be an appropriate reaction.

We didn't - We didn't for a very long time - But then they were resorting to raiding our cupboards/fridges, we also felt bad about not feeding them.

So in how long a time span were you basically neglecting to take care of your animals? It happened FOUR times,

I'm not sure what this is referring to. If you mean we were neglecting them by not getting them spayed or neutered then you'd be wrong - We were constantly phoning the 'local' vet trying to get them to visit us because in the entire time of us having pets we had no way of getting to the vet. The vet was always busy. Don't think we didn't try. Sometimes we tried 'letting them go' so we didn't have to do the following act and sometimes we tried making them more domesticated so they wouldn't get knocked up by another stray.

and during that entire timespan, you had no access to a vehicle?

I really have a strong urge right now to call you some rude names, but I'm not going to because I like keeping things at least somewhat civil. Not everyone is as well off as you, especially not in these areas I was living in. I'm living in Greater London right now and I still don't have a car.

And basically everyone in 'rural southern france' around you was a selfish prick, because in all that time no one could help you out?

Or perhaps they had their own problems? My neighbour lived a good American block away from me. I was living on a mountain, the nearest village was about a mile off.

You're right, this seems monstrous. But to me, it's monstrous in your initial neglect

There was no neglect, we made do with what we had.

Barbaric act that had to follow.

You're too middle-class for your own good.


Once more, I am against having to do these things - And I'm against the way the girl carried them out in the video. And if I could, I would go back to that village I lived a mile away from and build a vet, but I can't.

 

[Baby Tea]

While they may be happy, my original point on the first page was that they were unremarkable (i.e, ordinary, average, nothing special and ultimately forgettable) and I don't see why people put humans on some kind of pedestal compared to other forms of life.

Because they are people. Not just human, but people.
They were, or are, someone's son, someone's daughter, someone's father, mother, sister, brother. They have stories you've never heard, and they've had experiences you'll never experience. They've gone through things that would break you, and they've experienced joys you can't imagine. Their career or their education doesn't define their worth, and it certainly also says nothing about how 'remarkable' they are. That fact that you think so is disgusting.

And I do drive myself to work, clean my own office, fix my own car and grow my own vegetables. Especially cleaning my office as the woman who does it at the moment can't even do that properly.

It's the internet. Of course you do those things.
I'm done here.

 

[the December King]

I see all these people talking about how puppies can't defend themselves. Can infants and toddlers? Can they fight back before they're killed? Are they aware of what's happening to them?

About 2 weeks ago a local woman gave birth. She put her new born infant in a car seat and threw it into a river. Where were the people rallying for the rights of that human child? Bitching about some damn puppies.
[small]I'd love to find a link to the article, but anything having to do with the words "thrown into a river" brings up links to this girl and the puppies(I'll keep searching, though).[/small]

I think a comparison between puppies and babies is being made here, in their defenselessness and innocence and such.

Did this woman post her child's drowning on youtube to amuse herself?

But I do remember that incident! I think she was immediately arrested, but I'm not 100 percent positive. If you do find a link, please post it, I'd like to learn more about it.

 

[Vrach]

snip

Jesus, the amount of people using that argument over and over is really tiring.

Do you see a snuff video posted on YouTube by someone who is bragging about the act publicly? No you fucking don't. When someone does, trust me, the rest of the internet population outraged at this and me are going to be 10 times as outraged. At the moment - you have nothing to compare this act to.

This is not just murder. This is a video of a young psychopath laughing and enjoying the act of extinguishing lives of helpless creatures, with her brother proudly filming the act and posting it on international public video channel. Is it that hard to see the difference?

There is another thing. A rape or murder of a human gets prosecuted, the police put their effort into it. An act like this usually goes unpunished. The police have 'better' things to do and you're not gonna see them looking into animal abuse unless it's reported or it's directly witnessed by a police officer.

Since these morons were stupid enough to film themselves, the internet did the society and the police a favour and tracked the girl and her brother for them. Why the hell are you morally repulsed by such an act, it's nothing short of a good thing.

 

[Jonluw]

Because they have a clear culprit. When humans die, very rarely do you get to know who the one person responsible is; and even if you do, he is rarely directly involved with the persons death. When a bunch of people drown because of a flood, that's sad; but you haven't got anyone to blame for their deaths (Unless you believe in a god that is.). Much less a video clip showing the killer performing the act.

Let me put it this way <spoiler=Mafia 2 spoiler>When Henry was killed by the Chinese drug lord, I wanted to avenge him just as much as Joe did; but had he been sent of to fight in the war, and died as a result, I probably couldn't have cared less.

In short: When someone dies, it makes you sad; but if someone is killed, it makes you angry. Particularly if you know the culprit.

In addition, puppies are a lot cuter than humans.

 

[Shoqiyqa]

Humans? For a start, there are nearly seven billion of the bloody things in the world already, and they're causing all kinds of trouble with expanding their housing and destroying ecosystems and everything else like that. For something else, Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen? Humans. Deliberate infection of natives with smallpox? Humans. Slavery? Humans. Nanking? Humans. Suvla Bay? Humans. Khmer Rouge? Humans. Agent Orange? Humans. Bosnia? Humans. Kosovo? Humans. My Lai? Humans. 9/11? Humans. Abeer al-Janabi? Humans. Cluster bomb submunitions? Humans. White phosphorus use against civilians? Humans. Religious laws forbidding stunning animals before slitting their throats? Humans. Warsaw Ghetto? Humans. The stolen generations? Humans. Deepwater Horizon? Humans.

Stains on the carpet and a chewed shoe? Puppy.

 

[Aphex Demon]

I think it comes naturally in human nature for us to be more upset at innocent cute puppies getting killed for fun. Compare that with someone getting shot and killed in afghan, We as humans are used to this as it is part of our humanity. We are still all animals.

 

[the December King]

Don't feed strange animals unless you're ready to take them in, I guess would be an appropriate reaction.

We didn't - We didn't for a very long time - But then they were resorting to raiding our cupboards/fridges, we also felt bad about not feeding them.

So in how long a time span were you basically neglecting to take care of your animals? It happened FOUR times,

I'm not sure what this is referring to. If you mean we were neglecting them by not getting them spayed or neutered then you'd be wrong - We were constantly phoning the 'local' vet trying to get them to visit us because in the entire time of us having pets we had no way of getting to the vet. The vet was always busy. Don't think we didn't try. Sometimes we tried 'letting them go' so we didn't have to do the following act and sometimes we tried making them more domesticated so they wouldn't get knocked up by another stray.

and during that entire timespan, you had no access to a vehicle?

I really have a strong urge right now to call you some rude names, but I'm not going to because I like keeping things at least somewhat civil. Not everyone is as well off as you, especially not in these areas I was living in. I'm living in Greater London right now and I still don't have a car.

And basically everyone in 'rural southern france' around you was a selfish prick, because in all that time no one could help you out?

Or perhaps they had their own problems? My neighbour lived a good American block away from me. I was living on a mountain, the nearest village was about a mile off.

You're right, this seems monstrous. But to me, it's monstrous in your initial neglect

There was no neglect, we made do with what we had.

Barbaric act that had to follow.

You're too middle-class for your own good.


Once more, I am against having to do these things - And I'm against the way the girl carried them out in the video. And if I could, I would go back to that village I lived a mile away from and build a vet, but I can't.

Well, I appreciate your restraint in not addressing me by unsavoury names.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh... I have been lucky enough to have had people help me in the past, or responsive vets and assistance services at least, when things got messed up.

I just get fired up when animals are killed for general amusement, and anyone even trying to touch on a middleground perspective can get caught in the backlash.

 

[AlanShore]

While they may be happy, my original point on the first page was that they were unremarkable (i.e, ordinary, average, nothing special and ultimately forgettable) and I don't see why people put humans on some kind of pedestal compared to other forms of life.

Because they are people. Not just human, but people.
They were, or are, someone's son, someone's daughter, someone's father, mother, sister, brother. They have stories you've never heard, and they've had experiences you'll never experience. They've gone through things that would break you, and they've experienced joys you can't imagine. Their career or their education doesn't define their worth, and it certainly also says nothing about how 'remarkable' they are. That fact that you think so is disgusting.

And I do drive myself to work, clean my own office, fix my own car and grow my own vegetables. Especially cleaning my office as the woman who does it at the moment can't even do that properly.

It's the internet. Of course you do those things.
I'm done here.

So what if they're people? The puppy being thrown in the river and other animals have a mother, a father and most likely brothers and sisters, has experienced and gone through things we could never experience or understand properly but somehow they're not worth as much as a human life. Again, why?

And I never said their worth was determined solely by education or career; you could be a high school drop-out and still go on to achieve amazing things, but most don't, hence why I say most people are unremarkable. Is that too hard to get?

And yes, I do all of those things, is that really so hard to believe?

 

[Cmwissy]

I just get fired up when animals are killed for general amusement, and anyone even trying to touch on a middleground perspective can get caught in the backlash.

I agree with you 100% - I'm sure anyone with at least the smallest sense of morality would at the very least try to stop unnecessary death.