Online Activation Is a Ripoff

Gildan Bladeborn

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The crap publishers keep pulling with various completely ineffective and annoying forms of DRM, when anyone with even half a brain can see that it doesn't work(!), would make me wonder if it's because they're brain-damaged or their investors are, so they have to fork out money for expensive copy-protection software that does jack to stop pirates or they'll be seen as "not doing enough to stop piracy, oh noes!". I say 'would' because I don't think DRM has anything to do with piracy at all, but first let's look at how piracy impacts the bottom line.

Software companies love to bandy about the potential revenue figures for all the pirated copies circulating around the interwebs and call them "losses due to piracy!", but that's both dishonest and misleading. Software piracy is stealing, but it's not stealing - if I take merchandise from a physical store without paying for it I have both deprived that retailer of the money they would have ordinarily received for that item and the item. If you download a copy of Crysis, you have a copy of Crysis you didn't pay EA for, which has the same impact to their bottom line as a customer browsing through the software section and deciding not to buy it.

The 'losses' are hypothetical, since the 'loss' was to their potential revenue - there's no way at all to confirm that, had piracy actually been impossible (ha!), they would have sold all those copies the pirates downloaded. Publishers say "Look how popular our games are, we are losing so much money from piracy!" and point to the piracy figures while neglecting to mention the bit where the folks pirating your games are bloody software pirates, who do not as a rule pay for things. The number of pirated copies does not equal "units we could have sold if only DRM couldn't be circumvented", since that would rely on the demographic that's content to rip you off now suddenly deciding to purchase your stuff - this is an inherently flawed assumption.

Thieves are not a reliable purchasing demographic as a general rule, and there's absolutely no way to tell if the pirates would have paid for your game if they couldn't have just stole it - and it's readily apparent that you can't keep them from pirating your software anyways.

I choose to believe that the suits know all this and use piracy! as a straw-man that keeps the general public from being outraged at their real reason for pushing DRM down our throats: It screws over the second-hand games market and, if they are lucky, sometimes the honest customers have to purchase things they already bought again! Unlike pirates, the people who frequent used games stores actually have a tendency to PAY for things, but as far as money reaching the publisher, used games sales might as well just be piracy, because they don't see squat from those. And how does your continuing use of the software you paid for once help their bottom line? (Answer: It doesn't!)


If publishers came right out and admitted their draconian DRM schemes were really just ways to increase sales by screwing over paying customers and the used-games market, well that wouldn't work so well for them. Thank goodness they can keep playing the "Pirates, oh noes!" card!
 

Ytmh

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Markness said:
You have to be realistic. How many people will be affected by the servers shutting down 5 - 10 years after the game has been released. I'm probably not going to be playing halo 1 again, let alone installing it. The point is before you even start debating over this, you're assuming that the company or the community won't release a patch that enables it to be reinstalled. I happen to believe that it just isn't likely that this will happen.
And this is precisely why what you're saying has no weight as it only applies to YOU. Sure, YOU may not want to play Halo in 10 years. YOU may not want to play Bioshock 10 years from now. YOU may not want to play any of these DRM games 10 years from now, but what if I do? What if anyone does? If piracy is a question of timescale, then honestly why not just start pirating right NOW? Why give money when in the end you'll HAVE to pirate anyway?

This is what the rental analogy refers to, since you obviously missed the point. You're not really buying anything, you're just asking for permission to use something so long as they'll let you. After that, you're on your own and you'll just have to pirate to be able to play half of these games (and that's being real optimistic, I doubt patches/etc will get released often for most of these games.)

I've seen other posters already note that they get "backup" pirated versions of the very games they're buying, this is not too unusual either but it's frankly insane.

An interesting analogy are emulators and so on, which used to be a big deal since basically all of it is "piracy" but you can't really BUY most of those things anymore anywhere or if you can they're prohibitively expensive (until the whole virtual console fiasco, lol.) I'm frankly glad that such thing as emulation exists as keeping the past alive is a MUST in any form of media, be it films, music or games. If games being produced now with this DRM nonsense are going to be dead weight in the future (even for archival purposes) then piracy should as well be encouraged to make them survive, if anything, for later generations.
 

theultimateend

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Ytmh said:
Markness said:
You have to be realistic. How many people will be affected by the servers shutting down 5 - 10 years after the game has been released. I'm probably not going to be playing halo 1 again, let alone installing it. The point is before you even start debating over this, you're assuming that the company or the community won't release a patch that enables it to be reinstalled. I happen to believe that it just isn't likely that this will happen.
And this is precisely why what you're saying has no weight as it only applies to YOU. Sure, YOU may not want to play Halo in 10 years. YOU may not want to play Bioshock 10 years from now. YOU may not want to play any of these DRM games 10 years from now, but what if I do? What if anyone does? If piracy is a question of timescale, then honestly why not just start pirating right NOW? Why give money when in the end you'll HAVE to pirate anyway?

This is what the rental analogy refers to, since you obviously missed the point. You're not really buying anything, you're just asking for permission to use something so long as they'll let you. After that, you're on your own and you'll just have to pirate to be able to play half of these games (and that's being real optimistic, I doubt patches/etc will get released often for most of these games.)

I've seen other posters already note that they get "backup" pirated versions of the very games they're buying, this is not too unusual either but it's frankly insane.

An interesting analogy are emulators and so on, which used to be a big deal since basically all of it is "piracy" but you can't really BUY most of those things anymore anywhere or if you can they're prohibitively expensive (until the whole virtual console fiasco, lol.) I'm frankly glad that such thing as emulation exists as keeping the past alive is a MUST in any form of media, be it films, music or games. If games being produced now with this DRM nonsense are going to be dead weight in the future (even for archival purposes) then piracy should as well be encouraged to make them survive, if anything, for later generations.
Basically nothing I play at the moment is modern. If titles I own required online activation a good chunk of them wouldn't work, considering that most of the companies no longer exist.

I'd have to resort to punching infants if Master of Orion 2 stopped working :(.
 

Shamus Young

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Kwil said:
Shamus Young said:
Some people say activation fights piracy. Some say it has no effect. We can't settle this debate, but we can demonstrate that all DRM systems have the SAME effect on piracy. All systems are always cracked, no one system takes statistically longer than any other, and pirates all go through the same steps to obtain the game, regardless of the original system used.
Links or it didn't happen. C'mon, bring out the stats that show that no one system takes longer than any other. Go ahead. Bring out the stats that say World of Goo was pirated just as fast as Bioshock. Oh wait.. you can't? Because it ain't true. Bioshock took three days. World of Goo was instant.

Making stuff up to bolster your argument isn't a good way to do it.
Spore hit the torrents days before release:

http://kotaku.com/5045120/spore-cracked-and-torrented-already

I did not think I should need to provide links when your common sense should have served. Remember that what DRM promises to do is physically impossible and violates information theory:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/5930-The-Impossible-DRM

Even in the best case scenario - even if you were right, which your aren't, you're arguing for a DRM system which denies you ownership of the game FOREVER so that it can be safe from the torrents for hours or days.
 

Elementlmage

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Shamus Young said:
Kwil said:
Shamus Young said:
Some people say activation fights piracy. Some say it has no effect. We can't settle this debate, but we can demonstrate that all DRM systems have the SAME effect on piracy. All systems are always cracked, no one system takes statistically longer than any other, and pirates all go through the same steps to obtain the game, regardless of the original system used.
Links or it didn't happen. C'mon, bring out the stats that show that no one system takes longer than any other. Go ahead. Bring out the stats that say World of Goo was pirated just as fast as Bioshock. Oh wait.. you can't? Because it ain't true. Bioshock took three days. World of Goo was instant.

Making stuff up to bolster your argument isn't a good way to do it.
Spore hit the torrents days before release:

http://kotaku.com/5045120/spore-cracked-and-torrented-already

I did not think I should need to provide links when your common sense should have served. Remember that what DRM promises to do is physically impossible and violates information theory:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/5930-The-Impossible-DRM

Even in the best case scenario - even if you were right, which your aren't, you're arguing for a DRM system which denies you ownership of the game FOREVER so that it can be safe from the torrents for hours or days.
And really, what does 48 hours matter in the grand scheme of things. Who cares if it takes "The Scene" 5 min to crack Goo and 2 days to crack Bio Shock or Spore or what ever; the end result is the same. They just wasted real valuable money and their game got pirated regardless of how intrusive/painful/expensive/idiotic their copy protection was.
 

theultimateend

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Shamus Young said:
Kwil said:
Shamus Young said:
Some people say activation fights piracy. Some say it has no effect. We can't settle this debate, but we can demonstrate that all DRM systems have the SAME effect on piracy. All systems are always cracked, no one system takes statistically longer than any other, and pirates all go through the same steps to obtain the game, regardless of the original system used.
Links or it didn't happen. C'mon, bring out the stats that show that no one system takes longer than any other. Go ahead. Bring out the stats that say World of Goo was pirated just as fast as Bioshock. Oh wait.. you can't? Because it ain't true. Bioshock took three days. World of Goo was instant.

Making stuff up to bolster your argument isn't a good way to do it.
Spore hit the torrents days before release:

http://kotaku.com/5045120/spore-cracked-and-torrented-already

I did not think I should need to provide links when your common sense should have served. Remember that what DRM promises to do is physically impossible and violates information theory:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/5930-The-Impossible-DRM

Even in the best case scenario - even if you were right, which your aren't, you're arguing for a DRM system which denies you ownership of the game FOREVER so that it can be safe from the torrents for hours or days.
You so took the high road in this one Shamus.

I wouldn't have been able to respond without getting a suspension I think. I get aggravated when people show a distinct separation between themselves and reality.
 

cloudwolf616

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Is it just me or is anyone else seeing the same thing happening to the Xbox360 in the form of "Games on demand" which allows you to download 360 games direct to your hard-drive without the need for a disc. This might seem like a good idea its a few euros cheaper or dollars but in reality they are charging us more in the long term! when i finish with a game or its not my cup of tea i trade it in for store credit and buy a new one everybody wins, the store still gets a sale,I save money on a new game and somebody else will pay less for the game they want second hand
But with the new system you cant sell the game on or even give it to a friend because its not transferable plus you constantly need to buy bigger harddrives to store the bloody games meaning microsoft make even more money.
The really sad thing is I cant see any way to stop them doing it short of getting everyone who owns an xbox to stop buying games online or using the system in protest.
 

Sewblon

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I agree, but I read all of this before when Bioshock and Spore came out, and you wrote a 3rd of what I read.
 

L-J-F

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OK, a few points from me:

* [Suspicion) game PUBlishers are not gamers, they don't create games etc, they are in it for the money, thus, they have no idea what's going on in the "front-line".

* Piracy will always be there, but like has been said countless times before, imposing restrictions/hardships on people who pay money while letting the people who pay nothing for your game get it easy is just wrong ... and stupid:

Pirated copy
+ you get it for free.
+ no activation required
+ no risk of losing it

Normal - pay money

+ help developers
- pay money
- must activate
- risk of losing product

And how on earth is that supposed to make people choose the right option?

* The very idea of it, you're buying the liscence to ask to use a product that is not guaranteed to be your forever, in fact, it wont be.

* People will succesfully pirate your game no matter what system you use -> torrents -> downloaded and pirated.

* The piracy systems only stop people who wish to play with friends/family, not the big stuff. What's wrong with letting someone play with their brother or friend on lan?

* Providing a real incentive like stated, is a much better way, for example, Men of War. MoW has no copy protection ... AT ALL, except if you want to play online, then you must register an account with gamespy (yeah, this could have been done better to be honest). You could easily copy the game, but to get the best and full experience you would need to register an account, you'd need a legit key. Not perfect, but it works. Even so, I have a problem with registering, it just doesn't seem right.

* I've heard that people are dishonest and that they'll take the pirate one if they can, I think people will take a pirated game if it's right in front of them sure, but making the pirated copy EASIER to get is certainly not a good way of stopping piracy. People, for the most part, are ... good people, they don't go out to destroy game developers, in fact, the opposite, they support them.

* Again, someone has already mentioned this - in the real world you punish criminals and impose restrictions on them, with games, they punish and restrict legitimate customers while criminals get a free ticket and go right to the front of the line, no, heck, they don't even NEED to be in the line, they take the game and play it.

I'm totally opposed to activations, yes, they're "easy", but the idea of it's wrong. A standard disk check it much better, and I'd prefer not to have that even.
 

spiritbx

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this is going to be similar to the spore story, everyone knows the lesson you have to learn from that, but no one actually USED it.

when it come to the point where the company OWNS YOUR THINGS, I'm all for piracy for those things.

i dare someone to make an online shop that sells furniture, cars and even houses, then, once you are really popular(assuming you became popular) you just say, well its in the EULA that i can take away everything that you bought since you only bought the "license" to the stuff, and i keep the money, leaving thousands carless, furnitureless and homeless.

When i was young, I believed that the law was right, but it isn't, its just an incoherent mess of a system,"you can do this, but not like that, unless its that way, but only if between this and this"... WTF, they leave gaps, it feels like a badly programmed frogger game where you can reach your goal by running out where you can't see your character, thus evading all the obstacles.

With major companies, they can "own" your things without even you knowing it, I bothered to read the Runescape EULA and, yes, you don't own anything, from your levels to your items, its all the property of jagex, but I'm fine with that, since not only you don't own a CD of the game, but its only available online(like World of Warcraft. But with Games like Starcraft 2 and Spore, you CAN play offline, which is what makes them different from online games. Thus should follow different laws.

Laws like they can't own a single player game(the copyrights to it, yes, so pirating would still be illegal) and can only own your online account, since its a service hosted on THEIR server, making it theirs.

Oh and a word to the wise: "Make people happy, and they will praise you, but anger them and they will plot against you."

"By reading this post you accept that all your bases are belong to me."
/rant
 

Samurai Goomba

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Wait, I actually agree with a Shamus Young article?

I think I see the water from my faucet turning into blood.

Anyway, I avoid PC gaming at large for a number of reasons. The problems with PC games developers and piracy is definitely one of them. I'm just not going to put up with their crap. Someday some developer with come up with an anti-piracy measure that'll work 100% of the time and only affect actual pirates (actually, probably not), but until that day I'll play my console games.
 

Master_Fubar23

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i personally love steam. being able to get games i want without having to use a cd is awsome but i rather have something more tangible. i like having the option to buy a game activate it online then dl it or use a cd to install the game no worries. blizzard is really screwing up here. i initially had plans to get sc2 when i first heard it was coming out even when i heard its gunna be in 3 parts. although now im hearing about no LAN and this DRM im not so sure anymore. if what ppl say is true about DRM why would i bother paying for something just to get screwed out of it later ie the music with microsoft
 

Markness

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theultimateend said:
Basically nothing I play at the moment is modern. If titles I own required online activation a good chunk of them wouldn't work, considering that most of the companies no longer exist.

I'd have to resort to punching infants if Master of Orion 2 stopped working :(.
Here's someone who we can get some figures off. How many of your games have you installed with the original cd's at least 5-10 years after the game came out or presumably at least a few years after the game was off the shelf? Examples would be nice.

Sure it will vary significantly from person to person but we might as well.

Ytmh said:
You're not really buying anything, you're just asking for permission to use something so long as they'll let you. After that, you're on your own and you'll just have to pirate to be able to play half of these games (and that's being real optimistic, I doubt patches/etc will get released often for most of these games.)
It's strange that whole debate probably boils down to a contrast of opinion. You think patches/etc won't be released for most games, I think they will or at least some of kind of fix will be released from somewhere that will let you play the game without downloading the whole thing. I can see that you have a point if you are just assuming once the game is off the shelves, bam, servers shut down. Considering the system is a relatively new innovation, we probably won't know for a while.

Why give money when in the end you'll HAVE to pirate anyway?
You seemed to have missed the whole point of buying games in the first place. Nobody doesn't pirate games because it is against the law. It is incredibly easy to do, and the chances of discovery are minuscule. You buy games because you wish to support the developers and to thank them for the enjoyment. If you've bought the game, you've already done that. It would probably only take a few minutes to download a pirate patch (i'm copyrighting that term) to make the game able to be installed.
 

terraNivium

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Although I am a hugely impressed at what digital distribution has done for PC games over the last few years, I personally have had issues with it.

I have been using steam pretty much since valve started the thing, with CS1.6. I had been using the same account for several years, till probably just after the orange box came out. I log in one day to find the message: your account has been disabled. As you can expect I was somewhat surprised as I do not hack and all the games on my steam account were legitimately bought.

After a while of trying to get in touch with valve support, I finally posted on the forums to see if anyone could explain to me why I had just lost access to hundreds of pounds worth of games. The answer...really couldn't be more stupid.

Apparently its against Steam policy to have 2 accounts registered to the same email account :p. Also, all account locks are final, no questions asked. I quickly changed the emails of my other accounts to prevent further loss of property I had paid for, but was forced to repurchase the orange box again.

Although I'm probably one of few cases, I think it is wrong that developers/publishers/distributors can now control the games you own, and forbid you from using them as they see fit.

Heed this warning those with more than one steam account! xD
 

theultimateend

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Markness said:
theultimateend said:
Basically nothing I play at the moment is modern. If titles I own required online activation a good chunk of them wouldn't work, considering that most of the companies no longer exist.

I'd have to resort to punching infants if Master of Orion 2 stopped working :(.
Here's someone who we can get some figures off. How many of your games have you installed with the original cd's at least 5-10 years after the game came out or presumably at least a few years after the game was off the shelf? Examples would be nice.

Sure it will vary significantly from person to person but we might as well.
Lets see games that aren't on shelves anymore that I've installed recently:

Master of Orion 2
Evil Genius
Homeworld 2
Command and Conquer as well as Command and Conquer Tiberian Sun (Tried to play the original Red Alert but ended up just listening to the soundtrack...because I'm a Mechanical Man. I hope someone gets the reference >_>)

All together I've got a library that probably consists of roughly 20 "can't find them no-more unless you plan on forking out some smexy amounts of money".

In the modern world I rarely touch anything with DRM. If your DRM consists of anything more than "you must own the system" I don't really care to have a part of it.

The only title I know of to patch out their DRM so far has been Bioware with NWN 1 (another title I have on my PC that you can't find in stores). The hardcore about that is that a sequel was made and...holy crap it was terrible.

That's the problem. When people look at Civlization 4 or Sim City 4 (Bad examples since I love them) and tell people "It doesn't matter if DRM breaks your previous ones we have upgrades!" Because more often than not the sequels hardly qualify as upgrades :p.

In the non PC world, I'd not even own a PSP if not for the fact I was able to mod it and play my PS1 collection on it. That's the only reason my PC has been getting neglected. I'm playing titles in the mid to late nineties.

Before that I was playing my NES games on a DS (for the same reason as the PSP) and that kept me busy for quite sometime.

To be fair its largely nostalgia, but many of these games set out to do what they promised they'd do. I've been so disheartened by the modern gaming industry that I usually have to work to be interested in anything any major company is making.

terraNivium said:
Although I am a hugely impressed at what digital distribution has done for PC games over the last few years, I personally have had issues with it.
http://www.gog.com/en/frontpage/ - Digital Distribution Done Right.

Honestly this is one of my favorite sites on the web. It has tons of games I've been searching for at extremely competitive prices and no DRM :p.
 

veloper

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Markness said:
theultimateend said:
Basically nothing I play at the moment is modern. If titles I own required online activation a good chunk of them wouldn't work, considering that most of the companies no longer exist.

I'd have to resort to punching infants if Master of Orion 2 stopped working :(.
Here's someone who we can get some figures off. How many of your games have you installed with the original cd's at least 5-10 years after the game came out or presumably at least a few years after the game was off the shelf? Examples would be nice.
I'll help you out aswell.

Baldur's Gate 2 + ToB
Serious Sam 2E
Planescape Torment (irreplaceable)
Fallout 1 + 2
Age of Wonders 2
Tropico
Bloodlines (2004, so almost)
Gothic 2
Civilization 3 (stopped playing it only a couple months ago)

Good strategy games and rpgs are long between.