Opinion on the "Chosen One" trope

[happyninja42]

I mean, I love The Matrix, but, ignoring the fact that he's played by Keanu Reeves, Neo remains as the same stoic and unsure hacker throughout the film, up until the final confrontation where he's revived or whatever by Trinity's kiss and goes all "badass Matrihax" on Agent Smith's ass. Then, at the end and in the sequels, he's all of a sudden this confident freedom fighter fully embracing his role. It just seemed so quick, and there's no real reason for Neo to be so much better than the other people in the Matrix other than Morpheus (and the Oracle, correct me if I'm wrong) thinks so. He's not more intelligent, skilled or brave than the others. He just simply is.

Eh, I dunno. I felt that he showed lots of examples of becoming more confident and embracing his abilities in the first Matrix movie. There was the fight with Agent Smith in the subway, where he didn't run, and instead turned to fight. There is the fact that he decided to come up with that plan to break Morpheus out of the Agent facility. There is the way that he consistantly resisted, and defied the Agents, Smith in particular, like when he was about to die and said "My name...is NEO" *jump and smash to escape* It wasn't just after he came back from the dead and was able to super hack things. It was a progression. I personally thought it was portrayed pretty well actually.

As for the part about him simply being better at it in the later ones...well...apparently that was explained by the Architect in that long, monotone, droning speech he did, saying that Neo was born (programmed, whatever) with a higher level of control of the Matrix coding. That this was by design. He was sort of a failsafe. Now, considering that the Oracle is the one that taught the humans, and Morpheus about The One, she was basically shaping their belief system to coincide with Neo's higher ability with Matrix manipulation. He was able to do the stuff he did easier, and faster than the others, because he had a higher level of control/access to the Matrix coding. At least that's the gist I got from the movies, and it's reasonably feasible based on the reality of the setting.

A similar thing goes for Harry in Harry Potter. He survived Voldemort's Killing Curse on a mixture of luck and...his mother's love (WTF; I know it's magic, but still?), and seems to have gotten this far due to Dumbledore's favouritism, but Hermione Granger was always much better at magic than him and actually worked for it. I think I heard someone say that the reason Harry was the protagonist and not Hermione was because a male protagonist would get more attention. But now that I think about it, Hermione would make a better protagonist than Harry: it would give more of a reason for Malfoy to hate the main character (Malfoy pretty much hates Harry just because he rejected his offer of friendship and sided with a poor boy and a "Mudblood"), and it would show a new perspective on a protagonist of children's books who was actually somewhat of an "insufferable know-it-all", as Snape put it, who has to learn to show more humility and whatnot. Just a thought.

What do you think?

Yeah, I'm gonna agree with you about the Harry Potter thing. When I read the books, and watched the movies, I got a definite "magical jock" feel from Harry. He didn't really do anything in school, but was really good at their sport, so he was just loved by all of them. He never actually DID magic for like, the first 4-5 books really. He might whip out his wand at the end and cast 1 spell, perfectly timed. But for the most part, he was a thug. And I use that term simply to indicate someone who uses physical ability instead of mental. Not slamming his morals or personal character or anything.


As to the basic question about the Chosen One trope in general? I think it's like any other trope. It can be a great tool, if used properly, and a terrible crutch if used poorly. So, really I don't see anything wrong with that trope specifically, just in it's execution in media.

 

[Commodore Vic Twenty]

"Then the prophecies of the old songs have turned out to be true, after a fashion!" said Bilbo.

"Of course!" said Gandalf. "And why should not they prove true? Surely you don't disbelieve the prophecies, because you had a hand in bringing them about yourself? You don't really suppose, do you, that all your adventures and escapes were managed by mere luck, just for your sole benefit? You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!"

"Thank goodness!" said Bilbo laughing, and handed him the tobacco-jar.

THE END​

 

[daveNYC]

I prefer its usage in the first Mass Effect. Where your character starts out normal, but then gets a unique set of knowledge that turns them into the chosen one. Anyone could have been the chosen one, but it's more or less happenstance that your become the chosen one.

 

[Rblade]

I think it's both lazy and very usefull to prevent you from thinking, why the hell doesn't this guy just GTFO and go home. Because hero movies often have them do completely irrational stuff, dangerous and unlikely. Thats unavoidable, and thus you have to find a way to have a rational person go through with it eventhough it's stupid. Because hey, he/she is the chosen one. Because even for something as supposedly strong as "revenge" some things hero's are required to do are stuff a rational person would say "fuck this I'm out" to.

In short, I think it allows to make an over the top action movie without your characters becoming completely unrelatable and or insane looking.

 

[Yopaz]

As with anything else it depends on how it's used and implemented. It can be used in a bad way and it can be used in a good way. Looking at Harry Potter I'd say that was how it was used in a good way.

I am going to go into spoilers here to explain why I think so.

Spoiler

Harry wasn't chosen by fate or born under a lucky star or any of that bullshit Nor does he have any special powers. He was simply chosen by Voldemort as one of two possible candidates the other being Neville. Voldemort chose Harry because he saw himself in him due to him being half-blood and thought he would be a threat. When he killed Harry's Mother his soul fractured because it was unstable after making too many horcruxes and it entered Harry making him a horcrux which made him able to survive his attempt at killing him. So coincidences, choices and accidents made Harry the chosen one.

I also liked the Mistborn trilogy of doing things.

However there are plenty of bad examples too.

 

[CloudAtlas]

What do you think?

I think it's often used in lazy and sometimes awful ways. And what it really does is to devalue the actions of the character who is designated as Chosen One. After all you can't really claim much credit for your efforts if you're destined to do so, can you?
I especially don't like it if those Chosen characters don't really have to rise to any challenge, don't really have anything to do in a story, because they're not important for what they do but what they are.


As for games, being told that "only you can do it!" "you were destined for this!" and similar stuff all the time is just an annoying and cheap attempt to make me feel powerful and important, and it's not really working.

 

[CloudAtlas]

I prefer its usage in the first Mass Effect. Where your character starts out normal, but then gets a unique set of knowledge that turns them into the chosen one. Anyone could have been the chosen one, but it's more or less happenstance that your become the chosen one.

Just a pity they pretty much threw this idea overboard in Mass Effect 2.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

Being Human had a nice sort of lampshade hanging/subversion in season 4 (the best part of that rather lackluster season). There was a baby werewolf girl destined to be a future savior against an impending vampire take over. There was also a prophecy of someone or thing who would kill her. Both are true.

It turns out that;

Spoiler

In the future, the vampires have taken over the world, and the remaining humans and werewolves have all heard about the prophesised werewolf savior and are waiting on her to act. They end up waiting so long that the limited resistance movement ends up falling apart, because she's not actually all that special. She IS going to save the world, but not through any sort of special unique power, and the longer the population waits for that to happen the more they lose. Eventually, due to time travel shenanigans, she projects herself back in time to when she is still a baby and convinces her adoptive mother to kill her, knowing that without her around there can be no prophecy about any such savior and people will actually take a stand and fight back for themselves, because her very existeence in the future was stagnating any resistance attempt. This therefore fulfils the second prophecy about her killer; it's herself.

She ends up getting blown up in an explosion which also takes out the entire vampire elder council, ending their takeover plans before they begin.

And that's how you do a chosen one.

 

[Tono Makt]

While I agree that it can be used in interesting ways and some of these characters even experience character development (however mild or abrupt it may be) as a result of it, I've always thought the trope of the "Chosen One" (i.e. a character "fated" or "destined" to defeat the antagonist) can lead to lazy storytelling and bland protagonists.

What do you think?

I think questions like this lead to an amusing amount of pretentiousness in the resulting thread, as there is in all threads that are about "How Much I Hate The Overuse of (insert Trope/Cliche)!". "I hate it!" "It's lazy writing!" "It's usually used poorly!" etc. I'd be interested in seeing these posters provide examples where the "Chosen One" trope is NOT used in an environment where you would expect the "Chosen One" trope to be employed - and I'll even allow Game of Thrones to be used even though the "Chosen One" Trope MIGHT be at play in it. (something we won't know until GRR Martin finishes the series or dies and someone else finishes the series... and if he dies we might never know if there's a Chosen One trope at play or not.)

As for the trope itself, I love it. I roll my eyes when it's used poorly (Skyrim jumps out at me as a poorly used Chosen One trope - the main character is essentially immune to all social norms, and does essentially what they want.) but all in all I love the trope. It allows the audience to invest emotionally in a character throughout the journey to Change The World, (which is usually the overarching plot in Chosen One media - it's not usually a game or movie about Chosen One becoming a Dentist Against All Odds, or Getting The Children To Ballet, Hockey Practise, Piano Lessons and Karate While Getting Home In Time To Make Dinner And Show Mommy That Daddy CAN Do This Stuff Too!) and giving that character a reason why THIS character is the Chosen One and not some other character. (maybe if there was a Slightly More Advanced Technology Android App that turned his Tablet into an actual Android you might be able to turn the Against All Odds Dentist into a Chosen One trope?)

You get to say "WHY does David want to become a Dentist? What is his motivation? Is he trying to change the Dentist World by making it kid-friendly? Does he love teeth? Has he no sense of smell, and so the daily clouds of halitosis don't bother him?" instead of ""Wait a minute, HOW did David get through all those books in three nights? And how was he able to get his resume off in time to get the job just in the nick of time?" because the answer is "David (Chosen One) has the Android App, that's how he's able to do all the research he needs to pass the Exams in time to graduate before the perfect job is taken up by Evil Emil!" WHY becomes the focus of the story instead of HOW.

That's one of the reasons I love the trope, and use it regularly in my own writings. For most stories "HOW" is not important - "WHY" is the important question. Many people care about "HOW", of course - and "HOW" is important. But many more people care about "WHY", and will make a deeper connection to "WHY" because "WHY" cuts across more spectrums of understanding. Righting Wrongs and Standing Up For The Oppressed cuts across many different experiences - using a blowtorch to reinforce the doors and cover most of the windows of a cool looking black van, leaving just enough room so they can fire their machine guns all around an enemy and forcing them to run away or surrender, then never bother the Oppressed People again, isn't something people are likely to ever experience. Most people can look at the WHY and say "Yeah... yeah I can see myself doing that! Cut through all that bureaucratic red-tape, get people their drivers license in a reasonable time frame! Stick it to the faceless bureaucrats in (Capital City) who don't understand what it's like being out here on the front lines, having to watch people get told "You have to wait 3 days for the license to be mailed to you." when I can print something off right away and get them driving home that very day! Woohoo!" instead of "Well... uh... I really don't see how a blowtorch can improve things in the DMV."

Is it overused? I wouldn't be against trying to explore games (and other media) that were trying to be different, and might be willing to overlook problems if the overall product is enjoyable. But that isn't anywhere near saying I think the trope is overused, so no, I don't think the trope is overused. If it works, keep using it - and it does work on a regular basis. Is it often poorly used? Sure. When it's used 100 times, you might find that 55 of them are utter crap, 25 of them are just crap, 15 are decent and 5 are awesome, so you look at the 55 and go "See? It's crap!". Meanwhile, you've got 8 games/media where something unique and refreshing is used, with 5 being Utter Crap and 3 being awesome. It's difficult to compare the two due to the huge difference in sample size; maybe when the second set hits 100, you'll find a similar spread and it might become a question like "Are many games poorly written, regardless of what tropes they utilize or do not utilize?".

 

[gorfias]

Harry was the chosen one becuase voldemort chose to kill him

I agree that Harry should not be lumped in with Neo.

What bothers me the most about this "chosen" thing is I want to believe the "chosen" really is something special because, they really are something special!

Neo has an ability. I don't know why. I don't know why he should choose to use that ability in a certain way. And it doesn't seem he should have an ability that others cannot have either. Maybe he has a high Midi-Chlorean count.

But Harry, we find out in the Book Deathly Hallows, really is special. He is "chosen" by bad luck as you describe. He really is worth a damn for reasons we didn't see coming. Even Dumbledore must ultimately state that Harry is a better man than he. Really moving stuff.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Spoiler: Major Harry Potter spoilers

They could. Harry did not kill Voldermort, his own spell killed him.

The only reason Harry was "destined" to be the one was because Voldermort believed in the prophecy and kept trying to kill Harry. In doing so he enacted magic that linked their lives to one another. Had he not done so then anybody could have killed him.

By attempting to kill Harry as a child he put a part of his soul into Harry's body unintentionally.
By taking his blood to create a new body he put a part of Harry into his own body.

Neither could kill the other properly because wands recognise their owners. As they shared wands and blood, the wands saw each other as being "brothers" of sorts. This was why the battle in the fourth book had their spells block each other. It was why he couldn't kill him in the seventh near the beginning and the wand snapped. It was also why Harry's wand moved of it's own accord to deflect Voldermort at the same time.

When it came to the part where he did "kill" Harry, that was purely because Harry chose to accept it. Had he tried to defend himself it wouldn't have been possible. As for the final battle, Voldermort attempted to kill Harry, but the wand saw Harry as the owner due to the rules regarding the Elder Wand, so it then deflected back at him. Due to it being the unblock-able killing curse, it killed him.

When it came down to it, anybody could have killed Voldermort (assuming they knew of the Horcruxes and removed them first) it was Voldermort following the prophecy by choice, that led them to the situation that resulted in his own death.

The films did an absolutely appalling job of making this all clear though.

It could have been Neville Longbottom, if Voldy hadn't chosen Harry, and then had a part of his soul ripped out and stuffed into Harry for "safe keeping". So, short version is, Voldy chose Harry, not destiny or whatever.

I should have been more clear in what I meant.

Spoiler

Harry was the chosen one, in the sense that Voldemort believed the prophecy was about him. He could have interpreted it to mean Neville, yes.

However, Harry wasn't really the Chosen One, in that he was the only one able to fight Voldemort. He had a few advantages, true, but nothing really essential. Dumbledore mentions Harry's parents being killed as motivating Harry to fight Voldemort, which is fair enough, excepting half the wizarding world hated him already. Harry could have been killed off by anything before fighting Voldemort, likewise, Voldemort could have been killed off by someone else (with difficulty).

 

[KazeAizen]

I think it is a fine trope. Yes it can lead to some lazy writing on occasion but if done in novel ways it can be really effective. Alright now I think I'm going to get shot for saying this but Naruto has actually used it to good effect.

Spoilers follow so if you don't want to be spoiled just take my word for it.

Spoiler

Anyway for a very good portion of the series there actually is no "Chosen One prophecy" The first time we hear of it is in some of Jiraiya's flashbacks and this is shortly before and during his confrontation with Pain. The gist of the prophecy is that a child will be born that will change the ninja world. Though its shounen manga so that implies save it I actually do like that it says change rather than save. Its like saying good or bad whatever happens this child will change the world forever. Anyway back to the story. Jiraiya had previously thought it was Nagato, his first student, after learning he died though he figured he must've been wrong. He next thought it was Minato Namikaze, the 4th hokage, but again was proven wrong due to his premature death at the hands of The Nine Tailed Fox. After training Naruto for the time skip and coming to know him Jiraiya entrusted his Will of Fire to Naruto and believed he would be the one to break the ninja world's cycle of hatred. Its been a long time since this particular subject was touched on and I don't recall if Naruto was ever explicitly told about this prophecy or that his teacher thought he was the child of prophecy. Still because this information wasn't made privy to us until Naruto had grown into adulthood it allowed him to grow as a character naturally without the weight of "I'm going to have to do this some day." on his shoulders. Now granted after Pain invaded the Leaf village he is trying to fulfill his master's and father's wish but he was never fully on that path until much later into the story and at a point that was the first of two preludes for the final act of this series. So I think that Naruto is one of the series that has actually handled that angle spectacularly. The reason being because they didn't introduce it until a fair amount of the way into the series allowing the character to grow without any knowledge of how special he is supposed to be.

Spoiler free version: The prophecy isn't introduced until late in the series and allows the character to grow and mature without any of that extra baggage hanging on his shoulders.

 

[KazeAizen]

Oops accidentally posted twice. Disregard and go on with you business.

 

[senordesol]

Like many others, I have a particular disdain for the 'Chosen One' trope. Mainly because it subverts the value of hard work and loyal friends. Conceivably, if one is the 'Chosen One', he'd be able to defeat the evil no matter what.

The is *one* piece of media I can immediately think of where I thought it was handled well: Avatar the Last Airbender (Legend of Aang). What I enjoyed about it is that Aang legitimately had to work to become as powerful as he did; he had to be willing to make sacrifices and question what fulfilling his destiny actually meant. There was also a hint of danger in that it was prohpetically possible for him to be killed.

Another one I liked was Mobile Suit Gundam (I think, there are so many I can't be sure). Anyway, when I was watched it way back when on Toonami, I always felt more sympathy for the nominal 'bad guys' than I did for the protagonists. It wasn't until later when I discovered 'oh, this story's being told from the reverse perspective'. It's showing how helpless and utterly hopeless these men (who were portrayed as relatively normal even though they belonged to the 'evil' faction) felt and were indeed against these unstoppable killing machines.

 

[The_Great_Galendo]

I read a book once which was pretty standard Hero A, Heroine B, Bad Guy C - however, half way through A meets Heroine D and falls in love with her, at the end C has B in his clutches and tries to blackmail A, A still likes B but doesn't love her, due to D, so let's C kill B and wins.

That was a quite subversive (for fantasy). I forget the author though, all I remember is B is the daughter of the forest and gets turned into a deer at the end and A has some sort of wings.

Huh. That actually does sound somewhat subversive on multiple levels (normally the hero wouldn't let the villain kill anyone, at the very least). Can you remember any more about it? I'm mildly interested.

OT: As far as the 'Chosen One' trope goes, I think it's mostly bad writing, or at least commonly used in conjunction with bad writing. The only times I can think of it being played straight and working fine are when something like fate or rebirth is an inextricable part of the setting (see Avatar: The Last Airbender or The Wheel of Time for examples); basically, the hero is the Chosen One now only because of something he or his ancestors did before. Anyone could have done it, but he/they were the ones that did, so he's the one who has to deal with things now.

More generally, the trope also works for people who have inherited special powers (e.g., genetically-based magic), although in that case there still needs to be the implication that any member of his family could do the job, he was just the one available.

Of course, the trope can be a lot of fun when not played completely straight. I'm a fan of the ones that go, "Yep, you're the Chosen One. There were Chosen Ones before you, but they failed and died. If you fail and die, there will be Chosen Ones after you. We'll keep going until we get this thing licked. Good luck."

 

[soren7550]

I can tolerate it sometimes, but I really hate it when the whole Chosen One thing comes from buttfuck nowhere. For example (sorry, it comes from a series that's pretty awful, can't think of a better one at the moment), in The House of Night series, it's only something like three books in - and towards the end of the book for that matter - does the antagonist reveal how our 'hero' is the Chosen One of some legend that was never mentioned before, nor ever mentioned again as far as I can recall.

 

[DEAD34345]

If it's used for more than "lololol you are the Chosen One, now I don't need to justify your plot" then it's good. Usually, games pull it of decently well (in Skyrim, you're the Chosen One because you can Shout, for instance), but if it's done badly, it's truly the worst.

Isn't it the opposite way around? The Dragonborn can shout without training because he's the chosen one, he's not the chosen one because he can shout. Also to be honest I'd say The Elder Scrolls games are some of the worst examples of this, the player is always the Chosen One (Dragonborn, Nerevarine, Guy-who-Sir-Patrick-Stewart-sees-in-his-dreams-will-save-the-world-and-shit) just by virtue of being the main character, and to force him/her to follow the main storyline despite having no real reason to.

I think it can be done well though, and that sort of trope was actually present through a large part of human history so it's not like it can only be a device for lazy authors. It really all depends on how it's handled.

I've just finished watching The Twelve Kingdoms, and I quite liked how it was used there. The ruler of each kingdom is a "Chosen One" picked by a god acting through a divine creature, and this is all just a standard part of the culture of their world. The god makes no guarantee that the ruler will actually be any good (and they're very often terrible), or even that they will successfully be crowned, only that it will punish the kingdom with terrible monsters and natural disasters if they aren't (like most gods, this one is kind of a prick). It succeeds at driving the "Chosen" characters forward without making them infallible, and without guaranteeing any successes.

 

[Jarlaxl]

Want a great usage of The Chosen One? Here, have some Rice Boy. [http://www.rice-boy.com/see/]

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

There are good chosen ones and bad chosen ones, related to how they come to terms with their role, how their role is determined, how seriously it is taken, all that. I'm not as fond of the chosen ones who become all powerful and zen and wise as the ones who still are conflicted with human concerns.

A lot of the time it isn't even set in stone, it just so happens that one character gets all the training and experience and ends up the most powerful badass. In these cases I prefer when some other characters can at least challenge them.