Opinions on Schooling

[Dusty Donuts]

At my school at least, and in some images on the internet, I hear a lot of complaints about what exactly high school English teaches you. Now, in Australia, the only mandatory course to get the HSC (Higher School Certificate) is English at the moment, and within my limited experience what they teach you has a decidedly limited application and the two units for it could go to something that would be more useful for your career path. i.e. All the people who pick Business studies and end up being an accountant would be considerably better off not having to need to know how to analyse Shakespeare to the point of being able to write a 4 page argument about a question in 40 minutes.
My question is what are your thoughts on the high school English course (if you had to do it, I'm not sure about overseas schooling curriculum) and your opinion on the practical application of what they teach you in school?
Keep in mind, I'm not saying everything they teach you in school is useless and you shouldn't have to go, in fact, I'm probably regarded as one of the more studious types at school, but I'm just asking your opinions on the whole matter. So you can say it's all useless if you like. =P

 

[Stasisesque]

Now, in Australia, the only mandatory course to get the HSC (Higher School Certificate) is English at the moment, and within my limited experience what they teach you has a decidedly limited application and the two units for it could go to something that would be more useful for your career path. i.e. All the people who pick Business studies and end up being an accountant would be considerably better off not having to need to know how to analyse Shakespeare to the point of being able to write a 4 page argument about a question in 40 minutes.

I disagree. Analytical thinking is vital to many, if not the majority, of career paths. English is simply the best subject to cover this, as it teaches you the ability to comprehend and then argue your position. We use Shakespeare because his works are still the best representation of what became modern English. He recorded hundreds of new words and phrases in a vast number of different writing styles, as well as a fantastic array of genres. It's also helpful in learning grammatical rules and their applications - though I will admit it is almost counter-productive when it comes to spelling.

It's only when you reach A level study (or the equivalent in Australia/USA) that you are actively taught grammar.

 

[Korolev]

I finished High School in Australia in 2004. From what I can recall of English in 2003, and 2004, most of it was absolute garbage. They barely taught us anything at all - they mostly spent their time discussing CAVB - "Cultural Attitudes, Values and Beliefs". I have nothing against discussing culture and values, but they should have kept that stuff confined to Social Studies and History.

They stopped teaching basic grammar and writing styles in year 10. Everything after was mostly junk.

I learned analytical thinking from my science teachers. Didn't find much of it in English classes.

Having said that, it isn't entirely useless. You have to have a fairly solid grasp on the basics of English in order to do well in the course. Don't view it as a place to learn the basics, but as a place to test the basics.

 

[Dusty Donuts]

Now, in Australia, the only mandatory course to get the HSC (Higher School Certificate) is English at the moment, and within my limited experience what they teach you has a decidedly limited application and the two units for it could go to something that would be more useful for your career path. i.e. All the people who pick Business studies and end up being an accountant would be considerably better off not having to need to know how to analyse Shakespeare to the point of being able to write a 4 page argument about a question in 40 minutes.

I disagree. Analytical thinking is vital to many, if not the majority, of career paths.

Well, relatively positive career paths anyway. There's a lot of menial tasks that need doing out there.

They stopped teaching basic grammar and writing styles in year 10. Everything after was mostly junk.

Just for future reference, I just finished the Year 11 preliminary course.

 

[Vault101]

snip

soo much green...

why is it all green?

 

[Dusty Donuts]

snip

soo much green...

why is it all green?

Well, I checked, and there's no rules against it, and it makes it pretty easy to see. If there's a drawback, feel free to point it out and I'll gladly let it go. (I didn't think that much about it, I'm not presenting this as a challenge or anything).
[sub]Besides...green is my favourite colour[/sub]

 

[Vault101]

Well, I checked, and there's no rules against it, and it makes it pretty easy to see. If there's a drawback, feel free to point it out and I'll gladly let it go. (I didn't think that much about it, I'm not presenting this as a challenge or anything).
[sub]Besides...green is my favourite colour[/sub]

well...I guess no one is stopping you

unless its a ploy for attention to which I'd say you;d be better off making your posts notable through you say rather than some gimmicky colour

HOWEVER I make no such assumptions, your welcome to type in green if thats what you want

....I suppose some people may find my large animated avatars annoying in a similar way

 

[Dusty Donuts]

Well, I checked, and there's no rules against it, and it makes it pretty easy to see. If there's a drawback, feel free to point it out and I'll gladly let it go. (I didn't think that much about it, I'm not presenting this as a challenge or anything).
[sub]Besides...green is my favourite colour[/sub]

well...I guess no one is stopping you

unless its a ploy for attention to which I'd say you;d be better off making your posts notable through you say rather than some gimmicky colour

HOWEVER I make no such assumptions, your welcome to type in green if thats what you want

....I suppose some people may find my large animated avatars annoying in a similar way

Nah, no ploy for attention. I just remember from one of my old forums someone typed in purple with everything center aligned. I never read what she said because it was all in the RP area and I couldn't really put the effort in to those. The main benefit I've seen so far is that it's easier for me to find without having to go to my profile and go straight to the post there.

 

[Lizardon]

I graduated from high school in Western Australia in 2010, I was in the first class doing to new system.

Yeah I think a lot of what was covered in the English course is useless. When a employer states that they want people with English competency, they mean they want some one who can read as well as write legibly and coherently. They don't care whether or not you can de-construct a text and talk about how your context affects how you respond to the juxtaposition of the ideas and values presented.

Yeah I know that the content that is taught in school isn't what's important, but the skills and abilities gained while learning the material. I still don't think that analysis of texts is something that everyone needs to be able to do, at least not to the detail expected in the course.

 

[Dusty Donuts]

Here in the Netherlands, the subject of Dutch covers similar topics. The mother tongue of the country is simple the best school subject to teach such stuff in. You need that sort of skills too. I can't keep track of the amount of times I've used such secondary skills. Writing a resume, job application letters, communication, debating...

Actually, there's a lot of advice based on writing resumes and job applications that just isn't covered in high school English here. There was actually a subject for a while in year 10 called "Careers" that talked about it. Debating, definitely though, that's a pretty good one.

Also the low contrast green text is annoying.

Trust me, I considered that.
I really, really did.
No, I'm actually being serious here for once.
[sub](The top part would be dark green as usual, but this part is probably colourful enough for everyone.)[/sub]

 

[manic_depressive13]

Coloured text used to be against the rules. Then they changed them to the ambiguous list of shit they are now.

Anyway, I don't know why English is compulsory. It's utter nonsense at its core, and this is further exacerbated by an idiotic curriculum and marking procedures. I knew people in my high school who used to get 70s and 80s for paraphrasing sparknotes, having not even read the prescribed texts. These were people who didn't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

Not that I'm complaining. I'm studying to be an English teacher after all.

 

[Zeema]

snip

soo much green...

why is it all green?

because he is the green goblin or the incredible hulk im not sure what universe i wanna make a reference to yet

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I disagree. Analytical thinking is vital to many, if not the majority, of career paths. English is simply the best subject to cover this, as it teaches you the ability to comprehend and then argue your position. We use Shakespeare because his works are still the best representation of what became modern English. He recorded hundreds of new words and phrases in a vast number of different writing styles, as well as a fantastic array of genres. It's also helpful in learning grammatical rules and their applications - though I will admit it is almost counter-productive when it comes to spelling.

It's only when you reach A level study (or the equivalent in Australia/USA) that you are actively taught grammar.

I agree with this entirely... it is important in any ilk of life how to express your views coherently and robustly...

Hell, accountants do it all of the time! A big part of an accountants life is presenting ideas and plans to the company execs...!

 

[Dusty Donuts]

I disagree. Analytical thinking is vital to many, if not the majority, of career paths. English is simply the best subject to cover this, as it teaches you the ability to comprehend and then argue your position. We use Shakespeare because his works are still the best representation of what became modern English. He recorded hundreds of new words and phrases in a vast number of different writing styles, as well as a fantastic array of genres. It's also helpful in learning grammatical rules and their applications - though I will admit it is almost counter-productive when it comes to spelling.

It's only when you reach A level study (or the equivalent in Australia/USA) that you are actively taught grammar.

I agree with this entirely... it is important in any ilk of life how to express your views coherently and robustly...

Hell, accountants do it all of the time! A big part of an accountants life is presenting ideas and plans to the company execs...!

Keeping in mind, this isn't my direct opinion of English, and although I think on the whole writing a 4 page essay in 40 minutes has no practical application, the elements such as coherently arguing your point (What, on the internet? Not here though, people actually do it right here) could mainly be considered useful. This is because of an image I saw that I can't find that went along the lines of...

Who needs school?
English - I'll just get a dictionary
Maths - That's what we have calculators for
Geography - I'll look at a globe
Spanish - I'll just use Dora

And so on in that fashion. So yeah, I was wondering what an actual opinion on the subject matter was, hence the thread.
[sub]and dark green is more trouble than it's worth[/sub]

 

[Indecipherable]

At my school at least, and in some images on the internet, I hear a lot of complaints about what exactly high school English teaches you. Now, in Australia, the only mandatory course to get the HSC (Higher School Certificate) is English at the moment, and within my limited experience what they teach you has a decidedly limited application and the two units for it could go to something that would be more useful for your career path. i.e. All the people who pick Business studies and end up being an accountant would be considerably better off not having to need to know how to analyse Shakespeare to the point of being able to write a 4 page argument about a question in 40 minutes.
My question is what are your thoughts on the high school English course (if you had to do it, I'm not sure about overseas schooling curriculum) and your opinion on the practical application of what they teach you in school?
Keep in mind, I'm not saying everything they teach you in school is useless and you shouldn't have to go, in fact, I'm probably regarded as one of the more studious types at school, but I'm just asking your opinions on the whole matter. So you can say it's all useless if you like. =P

It's all garbage.

If you pick some business subject in high school because you want to be an accountant you'll realise this when you start your accounting degree.

It honestly doesn't matter.

Edit: To be a little more sophisticated with my response - basic literacy and numeracy skills are absolutely essential, but considering you are here and writing the way you do, it appears you have those down just fine.

 

[prophecy2514]

At my school at least, and in some images on the internet, I hear a lot of complaints about what exactly high school English teaches you. Now, in Australia, the only mandatory course to get the HSC (Higher School Certificate) is English at the moment, and within my limited experience what they teach you has a decidedly limited application and the two units for it could go to something that would be more useful for your career path. i.e. All the people who pick Business studies and end up being an accountant would be considerably better off not having to need to know how to analyse Shakespeare to the point of being able to write a 4 page argument about a question in 40 minutes.
My question is what are your thoughts on the high school English course (if you had to do it, I'm not sure about overseas schooling curriculum) and your opinion on the practical application of what they teach you in school?
Keep in mind, I'm not saying everything they teach you in school is useless and you shouldn't have to go, in fact, I'm probably regarded as one of the more studious types at school, but I'm just asking your opinions on the whole matter. So you can say it's all useless if you like. =P

What particular facts you learn about shakespearean plays or some other english text is completely irrelevant. Its the real world skills you develop during these studies that are fundamentally important.
Knowing how to produce a fluent piece of writing, being able to analyse a certain issue in the media, being able to submit a hypothetical argument for or against a certain viewpoint. These are the things that you develop in english that are so important. Noticed you mentioned accounting. You dont think part of an accountants job is to analyse and evaluate information for the the client they work for?

I hear this sort of argument all the time for mathematics study as well. Of course chances are you're never going to use Calculus or trigonometry ever again outside of the classroom. But the skills and abilities you develop from maths (i.e. problem solving given a set of constraints and tools) are fundamental to become a more rounded and intelligent person, or at the least make you a little bit less of a dumbass when you start in the workforce.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

SNIP

I have seen an image like that before... and it's total bullshit! What is the point of those tools if you cannot use them? Maths is the biggest one... what is the point of a calculator if you are trying to work out the percentage of something happening in a certain month, in comparison to all the events that happened in that month, and then comparing that to the years average... to fairly represent the data?

That is something I had to do in my job, which is nearly entirely English and comprehension focused, and it was GCSE maths that allowed me to do it... other people in my office didn't have a clue, and so I then had to make an excel spreadsheet to simplify what I did, so that people could just put in the numbers from then on!

The same could happen the other way around...

When I started in the Air Force, I had to write essays on particular topics for my qualification. I did a-levels in Geography and Maths, and had no experience for 5 years with essays, only from my GCSE's at 16! I struggled with that... but it was remembering how to write essays in a time limit (we had 40 mins again) that helped me... I used the Point, Quotation Dicsuss method, which over time has filtered into most of my writing! (Look at this post...)
After those exams/essays I thought I wouldn't have to use them again, but low and behold, I use that skill on an almost daily basis explaining to people over email why I have done something in a particular way, or on something else work related... and usually under a time scale...

The skill transfers itself to other aspects of life too, in different guises, no matter how trivial or different it seems...

So overall I think it is important for everyone to do, no matter what they are planning in life, because it is a base skill, and something you may end up needing no matter how much you think you do...!

 

[Dusty Donuts]

SNIP

I have seen an image like that before... and it's total bullshit! What is the point of those tools if you cannot use them?

Every single time I see that image, the biggest one that jumps out at me is always the one about Dora, since our school does both Japanese and Italian. =P

 

[FoolKiller]

I graduated from high school in Western Australia in 2010, I was in the first class doing to new system.

Yeah I think a lot of what was covered in the English course is useless.

OH the irony of your post. Your ability to make this point and do so in a organized, thought-out manner is a result of that education you scoff at.

 

[Angie7F]

Well, I dont know what they teach in Englih classes these days, but I think English is important because the sheer amount of native english speakers that suck at their own language astounds me.