Ori & The Blind Forest Director Calls Cyberpunk & No Man’s Sky Makers “Snake Oil Salesmen”

[hanselthecaretaker]

While he acknowledged that the actions of Molyneux, Hello Games and CD Projekt Red resulted in backlashes of varying degrees, Mahler also expressed frustration over the eagerness with which he feels players and journalists choose to “trust and even forgive”.

In a follow-up comment, he claimed “we’d be in a better spot if gamers and especially the gaming press would look at things with a bit more of a critical eye instead of just buying into the hype”.

“I know this whole thread might come off as me sounding bitter and I’m sure there’ll be some people that see this as me shitting on other devs,” Mahler wrote “No, I’m not. I’m shitting on liars and people that are okay with openly deceiving others.”

His original post concluded: “There, I said my piece, felt like a chip I needed to get off my shoulder and I think this is a wrong that we should set right so that this won’t happen anymore.”

Ori director calls Cyberpunk and No Man’s Sky makers ‘snake oil salesmen’ | VGC

Thomas Mahler accuses developers of deceptive marketing “from the Peter Molyneux handbook”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

I’ll have to play Ori & The Blind Forest sometime. Oh, and it looks like he already apologized, whether on his own or through some coercion.

Spoiler

It’s kinda sad that people don’t seem to be allowed to simply speak their minds anymore without it being run through a bunch of filters. How dare they make criticism that might actually carry some weight and ultimately spark a shift away from the same old shit. He wasn’t being racist or sexist, or anything personally offensive involving things someone can’t help. He was calling out these people’s character, which deserves some harsh words. Being forced to apologize for it is basically excusing the behavior that was truly damaging to consumers and the integrity of the industry at large.

Besides, there probably wasn’t one consumer who got burned by these people’s deceptions that weren’t thinking the same damn thing.

 

[happyninja42]

Yeah I don't know what he needed to apologize for in the parts that you quoted. Unless it's "I'm sorry I had an opinion that painted these people in a negative light". But, I mean the gamers themselves have happily been critical of those very devs, so I don't see why it's suddenly unacceptable for a game dev (someone WAY more familiar with what actually goes into making a game than your average player) to state, very politely, stuff others have been saying.

And he's not wrong, so again, why apologize? I mean I LOVE gaming. I've been playing video games more than anything in my life. I'm 44, and if I actually sat down, and mathed out the years of my life I've spent gaming, it would probably be tied up there with sleep, as far as just number of hours clocked doing this. It's a HUGE portion of my life and who I am. But, the level of tribalism and zealotry and hostility in the gaming community as a whole. How they religiously praise and defend a fucking COMPANY all because they made a video game they liked, and then simultaneously turn on said company if they DARE to make something not up to their unrealistic standards, or rightfully are angry because the company did something they didn't instantly forgive, that kind of behavior is frankly unsettling.

To me it reflects the aspect of human psychology that wants to follow and "believe" in something, and we have an increasing number of people who are devoting that...well, devotion, to the corporate sector. And it's NOT good. I want EVERY game to be great. But it's also, just a fucking game. If it's bad, well that sucks. If it's great, well that's great. But everyone needs to use some critical fucking thinking, and skepticism, in EVERY aspect of their lives, and not just blindly invest their hopes and dreams into luxury goods, and lose their shit if it doesn't come out how they want.

 

[Chimpzy]

Because he's at the very least not wrong. And yeah, the guy got shushed. Anyone willing to bet he's also getting shit from irate dickbags because how he dare he say anything bad about their favorite game and/or dev? I had more to say, but Happyninja pretty much covered all of it already. So instead I'll leave you with the Litany Against Hype, because it bears repeating.

"I must not hype. Hype is the mind-killer. Hype is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face the hype. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the hype has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

I’ll have to play Ori & The Blind Forest sometime.

It's not perfect, but it's one of the better metroidvanias out there, so yeah, go for it. The sequel is better tho.

 

[BrawlMan]

Thomas, you do not have to apologize for shit. You're speaking the ultimate truth people are too much of a pussy to hear. They rather live in their fantasy world and have the corporate assholes shit all over everyone.

 

[Casual Shinji]

And this is why shit won't really change. Someone from witin the industry speaks out against legitimate issues within the industry, but then gets whistled the fuck back, totally not by some higher up. But it's even worse than that. It's this blanket of 'we're all happy, friendly, creative people who are making your dreams; you wouldn't want that ruined by just a couple of bad apples, would you?' And this permeates almost every aspect of gaming, from the studios to the gaming press. 'Eh, why focus so much on the negative? Games are supposed to be fun. I wanna have fun playing my games, don't you?'

 

[happyninja42]

Because he's at the very least not wrong. And yeah, the guy got shushed. Anyone willing to bet he's also getting shit from irate dickbags because how he dare he say anything bad about their favorite game and/or dev? I had more to say, but Happyninja pretty much covered all of it already. So instead I'll leave you with the Litany Against Hype, because it bears repeating.

"I must not hype. Hype is the mind-killer. Hype is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face the hype. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the hype has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

It's not perfect, but it's one of the better metroidvanias out there, so yeah, go for it. The sequel is better tho.

The part I find the most baffling, is that the 2 company examples he cited in his criticism, are 2 of the biggest targets for said gamer hate in the last several years. Like, newsworthy levels of coverage and criticism. So, I'm puzzled why people are like "You can't say bad things about those 2 companies!" But, I mean, why? It's been open season on both of those companies. So I find it hilariously hypocritical of the gaming community, to suddenly defend those 2 companies, after YEARS of shitting on NMS, and MONTHS of shitting on CDPR.

 

[Chimpzy]

The part I find the most baffling, is that the 2 company examples he cited in his criticism, are 2 of the biggest targets for said gamer hate in the last several years. Like, newsworthy levels of coverage and criticism. So, I'm puzzled why people are like "You can't say bad things about those 2 companies!" But, I mean, why? It's been open season on both of those companies. So I find it hilariously hypocritical of the gaming community, to suddenly defend those 2 companies, after YEARS of shitting on NMS, and MONTHS of shitting on CDPR.

Maybe it's kind of like those parents. You know the kind. Karen types that are always complaining about and going off screaming at their kids for being little shits, but the moment someone else berates the brats it's all "My precious babies! How dare you! You're not their mother, you don't get to do that! Only I get to do that!"

 

[happyninja42]

Maybe it's kind of like those parents. You know the kind. Karen types that are always complaining about and going off screaming at their kids for being little shits, but the moment someone else berates the brats it's all "My precious babies! How dare you! You're not their mother, you don't get to do that! Only I get to do that!"

lol, maybe.

 

[Houseman]

This individual is stunning and brave, and Resetera are a bunch of children.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Maybe it's kind of like those parents. You know the kind. Karen types that are always complaining about and going off screaming at their kids for being little shits, but the moment someone else berates the brats it's all "My precious babies! How dare you! You're not their mother, you don't get to do that! Only I get to do that!"

Yeah funny it’s usually those types that have the biggest problems with keeping their kids in check, so they’ll use whatever excuse they can to take the pressure off and dish it out to someone else instead of just sucking it up and trying a different parenting strategy than yelling, “GODDAMMIT TOMMY, STOP IT YOU LITTLE SHIT!!”

 

[Worgen]

I’ll have to play Ori & The Blind Forest sometime.

They are very solid metroidvania type games with fantastic graphics. Although they do feel a little too polished and professional. Kinda like the emotional scenes are over produced and insist on themselves too much, if that makes any sense. At times it just feels like its trying too hard.

 

[SilentPony]

I mean yeah...snakeoil salesmen and slavers. Don't pay employees, threaten to destroy careers if they talk about the abuse, lie and steal from the fans, and then blame the very same slave employees when it flops. Welcome to the games industry, we have jackets.

 

[sXeth]

According to Mahler, he suffered personally from the hype surrounding No Man’s Sky, which he claims was “built on lies” that helped Hello Games’ title secure the cover article on a big publication at the expense of Ori and the Blind Forest.

Or ya know, Sony has a marketing budget they were willing to throw behind it more then MS was throwing behind an indie platformer.


So he used the current controversy du jour (Cyberpunk), to platform his petty dispute from years ago. I suppose he was at least honest about the reasoning..


Is he entirely wworng? No. But it jumped out pretty quick that there had to be something up to ignore Fallout76 (or well, Bethesda/Todd Howard everything for like the last decade), Bioware of recent memory, Evolve, et al.



Well they don't get a pass by any means, and in the one interview there's been regarding their next game, they seem to have well backed away. Hello/Murray has, for the time present, put their work into actually reversing, and seemingly learning from the mistake. Its a bit disngenous as such to contrast with long pattern hype-spinners like Molyneux or Howard, or major labels with marketing departments who should know better like CDPR.

 

[Jarrito3002]

The man told no lies and should not have to apologize. I mean he presented his point in no way that can be misinterpreted but I guess he went a to many sacred cows. So weird gamers call these out all the time then when someone in the industry says something then nope change your tune.

Besides this needs to be called out release a full price game bugged to hell and missing features that was promised but shrugg and just update later is dangerous path to go on. I know No Man Sky turned out great trying to redeem themselves but endless patch fixes to make deadlines is something to rest your laurels on.

 

[SilentPony]

The man told no lies and should not have to apologize. I mean he presented his point in no way that can be misinterpreted but I guess he went a to many sacred cows. So weird gamers call these out all the time then when someone in the industry says something then nope change your tune.

Besides this needs to be called out release a full price game bugged to hell and missing features that was promised but shrugg and just update later is dangerous path to go on. I know No Man Sky turned out great trying to redeem themselves but endless patch fixes to make deadlines is something to rest your laurels on.

Problem is its not a matter of great games vs bad games, as that's just all subjective and personal. Its a matter of complete vs incomplete. No matter what No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk end up being eventually, they were sold at full market price and the publishers knew they were incomplete. If CP was only like $15 then yeah it'd have a little more leeway, but its not, its $60 at minimum.

That's why the lies are so dangerous. No Man Sky promised the earth and the moon, and yeah it didn't deliver and if that was the beginning and end, its shitty and don't trust them, but nothing was lost. But they charged customers as if they were delivering the earth and moon. CyberPunk is charging as if its a fully released, $60 game when its basically still in Alpha and 6-18 months away from release.
And that's before we get to the lies about no crunch, abuse, psychological and physical harm done by panicked work schedules, and the general sense of entitlement to customer's money these devs and publishers have.

 

[Jarrito3002]

Problem is its not a matter of great games vs bad games, as that's just all subjective and personal. Its a matter of complete vs incomplete. No matter what No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk end up being eventually, they were sold at full market price and the publishers knew they were incomplete. If CP was only like $15 then yeah it'd have a little more leeway, but its not, its $60 at minimum.

That's why the lies are so dangerous. No Man Sky promised the earth and the moon, and yeah it didn't deliver and if that was the beginning and end, its shitty and don't trust them, but nothing was lost. But they charged customers as if they were delivering the earth and moon. CyberPunk is charging as if its a fully released, $60 game when its basically still in Alpha and 6-18 months away from release.
And that's before we get to the lies about no crunch, abuse, psychological and physical harm done by panicked work schedules, and the general sense of entitlement to customer's money these devs and publishers have.

I was called "entitled" because I lost interest in No Mans Sky even after all the updates actually made it a playable and fun game. Apparently not wanting anything to do with a company that doesn't fulfill their promises on the first go makes me the entitled one. In fact yes I was being entitled and I should be cause its my money.

Like I was hyped for Cyberpunk but now I might pick it up on a super sale for 15 bucks 20 if I am drinking and going who gives a fuck but overall but it won't be with a lucid mind.

You make a point complete vs imcomplete there has to be something done and at least enough people hold these developers and publishers accountable cause no other industry would fly with this and it would be called a scam from the get go.

 

[Wintermute]

In today's episode of Gamers Are Suckers...

 

[CriticalGaming]

Thomas, you do not have to apologize for shit. You're speaking the ultimate truth people are too much of a pussy to hear. They rather live in their fantasy world and have the corporate assholes shit all over everyone.

Personally i think it is in poor taste. Because the Ori director is one bad game away from being exactly in the same boat.

Before Cyberpunk, CDPR could have mocked any developer on the planet, then boom they fuck up and rush out a project and over promised and suddenly they are the enemy.

What do they call it? Dont throw rocks from a glass house or something?

 

[CriticalGaming]

How can he call them Snake Oil salesmen if they redeem the product?

Sean Murray and his team busted ass to make the game what they promised and they succeeded.

Cdpr will probably do the same thing.

I dont believe these devs scammed anyone. I think theu were pressured by the public and/or shareholders and publishers to push out a game that wasnt done.

Snake Oil salemen take your dosh and vanish. Neither of these companies have done that. NMS is a good game now, and 2077 has already seen patches to improve it and is continuing to get patched into something better.

 

[MrCalavera]

How can he call them Snake Oil salesmen if they redeem the product?

Sean Murray and his team busted ass to make the game what they promised and they succeeded.

Cdpr will probably do the same thing.

I dont believe these devs scammed anyone. I think theu were pressured by the public and/or shareholders and publishers to push out a game that wasnt done.

Snake Oil salemen take your dosh and vanish. Neither of these companies have done that. NMS is a good game now, and 2077 has already seen patches to improve it and is continuing to get patched into something better.

Because they sold you snake oil in the first place? I mean, thanks for those aspirin pills you gave me this time, but the previous scam still happened.

I do think Hello Games and Murray really redeemed themselves with New Man's Sky, but the verdict on CDPR is still pending. It's a more difficult situation to "fix" too.