Orson Scott Card Joins Firefall

[CM156_v1legacy]

Mmmm, interesting.

This reminds me: I was way to young when I read Enders Game and Enders Shadow. Still good books though.

This might be worth checking out.

EDIT: Love how so many people are hating this man for some silly things he said that few would take seriously. Tolerance FTW!

EDIT EDIT: Not that I am saying that what he is saying is smart, I just love to see a complete 180 on this issue with some people.

 

[Neuromaster]

Why should we kill someone based off their religious or political views?

Seriously dude? Someone levels a general insult toward a man who's actions they disapprove of and you immediately go for the murder card? Telling someone to drop dead is not the same as saying, "I will kill you." It's a statement that the world would be better off without them.

On Topic: I refuse to give Orson Scott Card any money seeing as he has vowed to destroy any government that legalizes same-sex marriage. So I guess I'll be missing out on Firefall. Surprisingly, I am not particularly bothered by this development.

You're right, I did put words into his mouth, and I apologize. But how is wishing death on someone else because they have a different opinion than you better than you personally wishing to murder them? Or "Condemn him to death" because he's Mormon?

I doubt the strong feelings being expressed here are related to his religion. It's his extreme views on homosexuality that draw our ire. This is a guy who has all but advocated armed revolution against the US on the basis of its tolerance of homosexuality. I quote:

"Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn."

and

"...when government is the enemy of marriage, then the people who are actually creating successful marriages have no choice but to change governments, by whatever means is made possible or necessary."

Where have we heard extremist rhetoric like that before? This is some borderline-terrorist shit. Compared to the filth Card's spouting, suggesting that his death would not cause many undue concern with the phrase "drop dead" seems rather tame.

 

[The_Evermind]

The guy is an alright writer, but he is a dick, plain and simple. The game doesn't even seen that interesting, ah well.

 

[Formica Archonis]

Card? Hmmm. Let's see. Ender's Game was excellent, and Ender's Shadow was pretty good, but both spawned horribly tedious series with no real redeeming traits. The Worthing stuff is hit or miss. Never read Alvin Maker. Someone gave me his Empire and it was a great insomnia cure. Homecoming was OK, partly because of how I heard it annoyed Mormons for being heavily inspired by some of their teachings without the OK of their bigwigs.

Did you know he once wrote about how to write effectively? It's great advice. And it's advice that he often doesn't follow, most notably the one about not being afraid to kill a character that needs to die or abandon something that needs to be left behind. Never read it, but I've been told Alvin Maker is a good example of this.

So... this does nothing to change my opinion of the game, which is still "Huh?"

 

[Treblaine]

Card hasn't topped Ender's Game in decades now and most people don't even know he wrote that book (or even what Enders game is).

All they know is "that's the guy who thinks gays should be persecuted".

In a time of so many closeted teens being driven to self-harm and suicide by society's prejudice against their sexuality - that they have no control over - this is unacceptable. This is not just "harmless opinion" he is popularising an attitude that costs lives, real lives, and people like Card are cruel bigots to enforce repression for acceptance or exile for trying to live a normal life.

And yes, a normal life is being with and marrying the person you LOVE not just anyone of the gender you are "supposed" to be in love with. People like card are responsible for so many broken families, gay men or lesbians pressured into marrying conventionally for convenience are doomed to dysfunction and failure.

Frankly card is being being a wilful moron to think it's a good idea to force homosexuals to act straight and he is a coward to refuse to respond to defend his position from people who will challenge it.

HEAR THAT CARD! A COWARD YOU ARE!

And to all the people saying "It's his opinion, what happened to tolerance?"

Tolerance of intolerance IS intolerance.

Do no do harm, do not allow harm to be done.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Card hasn't topped Ender's Game in decades now and most people don't even know he wrote that book (or even what Enders game is).

All they know is "that's the guy who thinks gays should be persecuted".

In a time of so many closeted teens being driven to self-harm and suicide by society's prejudice against their sexuality - that they have no control over - this is unacceptable. This is not just "harmless opinion" he is popularising an attitude that costs lives, real lives, and people like Card are cruel bigots to enforce repression for acceptance or exile for trying to live a normal life.

And yes, a normal life is being with and marrying the person you LOVE not just anyone of the gender you are "supposed" to be in love with. People like card are responsible for so many broken families, gay men or lesbians pressured into marrying conventionally for convenience are doomed to dysfunction and failure.

Frankly card is being being a wilful moron to think it's a good idea to force homosexuals to act straight and he is a coward to refuse to respond to defend his position from people who will challenge it.

HEAR THAT CARD! A COWARD YOU ARE!

And to all the people saying "It's his opinion, what happened to tolerance?"

Tolerance of intolerance IS intolerance.

Do no do harm, do not allow harm to be done.

There is a better way to adress other's view points then calling them names. I disagree with Card, but I don't damn him for a view point. It's stupid, but I don't demand he STFU. And frankly, I am against any side that calls names and demands the other side just sits down and close their mouth.

But can we get off the topic of his views on gay rights? That doesn't affect him as a writer.

 

[Viking Incognito]

While I love the works of Card, I hate him as a person because he is a prejudiced bigot asshole.

 

[Treblaine]

Card hasn't topped Ender's Game in decades now and most people don't even know he wrote that book (or even what Enders game is).

All they know is "that's the guy who thinks gays should be persecuted".

In a time of so many closeted teens being driven to self-harm and suicide by society's prejudice against their sexuality - that they have no control over - this is unacceptable. This is not just "harmless opinion" he is popularising an attitude that costs lives, real lives, and people like Card are cruel bigots to enforce repression for acceptance or exile for trying to live a normal life.

And yes, a normal life is being with and marrying the person you LOVE not just anyone of the gender you are "supposed" to be in love with. People like card are responsible for so many broken families, gay men or lesbians pressured into marrying conventionally for convenience are doomed to dysfunction and failure.

Frankly card is being being a wilful moron to think it's a good idea to force homosexuals to act straight and he is a coward to refuse to respond to defend his position from people who will challenge it.

HEAR THAT CARD! A COWARD YOU ARE!

And to all the people saying "It's his opinion, what happened to tolerance?"

Tolerance of intolerance IS intolerance.

Do no do harm, do not allow harm to be done.

There is a better way to adress other's view points then calling them names. I disagree with Card, but I don't damn him for a view point. It's stupid, but I don't demand he STFU. And frankly, I am against any side that calls names and demands the other side just sits down and close their mouth.

But can we get off the topic of his views on gay rights? That doesn't affect him as a writer.

I'm not actually demanding he "STFU" I am demanding that he DOES speak, that he RESPONDS to all the many many MANY criticisms of his position and doesn't run away like a coward when he is held to account! Because at the moment he is in his ivory tower refusing to respond to any journalists while his prejudiced rhetoric lingers and hangs on his reputation.

A reputation that is being banked on and fostered by his involvement in these games.

There are loads of people saying what Card has said, but right now he is authoring (even if only in part) some very popular video games. THAT reputation gives his argument weight - he's not just another ignored loser - and it sullies the reputation of gamers in general by a vote of acceptance when the games under his name do well.

it's not like this past time isn't already dogged with undercurrents of gay-bashing:
-Modern Warfare 2's "F.A.G.S" advert
-typical XBL voice chat spam revolves around gay insults (also racism)
-Microsoft banning users for self-identifying as gay yet give racial names a pass

Are the first to come to mind.

It's not like he's just "on the other side of the political spectrum" he goes way further than the GOP party line and demands that homosexuality be banned outright and practising homosexuals be treated as second class citizens.

And all he says is in complete isolation, away from any real challenge, he has never had to acknowledge any of the evils of his proposals, and how the ideas that he enforces in practice have VERY REAL and terrible consequences.

You object to the term coward, well how else would you describe this behaviour? "Tactical" maybe? "Devious"?

He bloody well HAS to be, it is the only way he can POSSIBLY state this rhetoric is by using tricks to avoid them being instantly shot down as cruel, unjust, ignorant and unconstitutional.

 

[Callate]

Card as a writer has produced some worthwhile fiction. He's also written what may well be one of the best books about writing science fiction I've ever read.

His political views... Aren't frustrating so much because he has them as because when he writes about them, it's clear that he hasn't thought very much about them. Completely cart-before-the-horse. Pre-emptive war, climate change disbelief, pro-sodomy laws, anti-sexual revolution... I'm willing to believe that a smart, reasonable person could come up with good arguments for these positions, but Card hasn't. Instead he's chosen to vilify the real people who hold the opposing position, making them out to be caricatures that his writing on writing suggests a writer should never contemplate in fictional characters.

What's most regrettable in some ways is that this kind of thinking seems to be leaching into his fiction. Rather than showing us that a character is brilliant, he has other characters act in contrived ways that the "brilliant" character predicts solely in order to illustrate the character's brilliance. As an example. Cart before the horse.

I haven't seen any evidence in the last decade that Card is a particularly good match with video games. His work with Monkey Island, limited as it was, was quite good, but also quite some time ago.

I can't find it in my heart to hate the man. He's like a great-uncle you feel you're supposed to respect because he did great things in The War, even though now he spends all day on his porch waving around a shotgun and yelling to keep "the n*****s off my lawn".

(And to be clear on that last point, it's a metaphor. Card has all kinds of unpleasant biases, but racism is apparently not one of them.)

 

[Parnage]

I generally don't play shooters but I am not going to say no to free to play and at least try it. Even more so over the idea that because he has an opinion I disagree with I should boycott a product he is somewhat involved in.

I don't know where you come from but where I come from people are welcomed to have an opinion even if you find that opinion disagreeable because it's a right to have opinions and be opinionated.
*shrug*

I'll give the game a shot, hell it's free why wouldn't I give it that much?

 

[Stevepinto3]

I'm mixed.

On one hand, some of the Ender's Game books were simply great. On the other, bringing in a Novelist to write a video game probably won't work as well as the hope. Also Card is kind of a douche really, but damn if he didn't write some good books.

 

[Kiefer13]

The only thing I've read by Card is Ender's Game. Pretty damn good book, but since the general consensus seems to be that he hasn't written anything as good since, I don't think I'll bother with anything else he's done. Didn't know about his social/political views when I bought Ender's Game but I got it second-hand from a charity shop anyway, so the £1.50 or whatever it was I spent on it at least went towards a good cause rather than him. He might be a decent writer, but I wouldn't willingly spend money supporting someone as big a bigot as he seems to be.

 

[Treblaine]

Card as a writer has produced some worthwhile fiction. He's also written what may well be one of the best books about writing science fiction I've ever read.

His political views... Aren't frustrating so much because he has them as because when he writes about them, it's clear that he hasn't thought very much about them. Completely cart-before-the-horse. Pre-emptive war, climate change disbelief, pro-sodomy laws, anti-sexual revolution... I'm willing to believe that a smart, reasonable person could come up with good arguments for these positions, but Card hasn't. Instead he's chosen to vilify the real people who hold the opposing position, making them out to be caricatures that his writing on writing suggests a writer should never contemplate in fictional characters.

What's most regrettable in some ways is that this kind of thinking seems to be leaching into his fiction. Rather than showing us that a character is brilliant, he has other characters act in contrived ways that the "brilliant" character predicts solely in order to illustrate the character's brilliance. As an example. Cart before the horse.

I haven't seen any evidence in the last decade that Card is a particularly good match with video games. His work with Monkey Island, limited as it was, was quite good, but also quite some time ago.

Sounds like George Lucas.

But at least Lucas only worked to cheapen cinema, not destroy peoples lives.

What is it with great auteurs of the 1980's ending up as people you just would not recognise at all any more, how can they change so much for the worse?!? What the hell happened?

 

[Bebus]

Wow, I almost wish I hadn't read this thread.

Ender's Game is one of my favourite all time books, and Ender's shadow was a nice counterpoint to the whole thing. Never read any of the others or knew anything about the author, kind of puts a dampener on the whole thing :-(

 

[somonels]

Yay, I'm all for it, and the game being free-to-play.

 

[Nickompoop]

I'm playing this, even if it's shit, Orson Scott Card's involved. It'll be an awesome story, trust me.

 

[Flamebait]

The dude is a Mormon. That alone is reason enough for most people to condemn him to death. As a Mormon, he's automatically homophobic. That's reason number two.

I am mormon, and I'm not homophobic. Not even remotely close. That's all it takes for you to be wrong. And many of my friends are mormon. Not one of them is homophobic. Sounds like you are dead wrong on that point.

And to say that being a mormon is reason enough for most people to condemn him to death is not only hypocritical and bigoted in and of itself, it could possibly be defined as hate speech, which the VAST majority of mormons aren't even guilty of.

Also, you think homosexuals have had hard lives? Read this. [http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/history/1831_1844/extermination_eom.htm] Until 1976 it was legal to kill a mormon in Missouri, part of an extermination order issued in 1838. Mormons were driven out of the state and killed. Their leader was thrown in jail on trumped up charges, where he was killed by a mob when the jail was insufficient to protect him.

What Card has said is bad. He is horribly extreme, I would argue that most mormons disagree with him. But he is a great writer, and his anti-gay bias doesn't bleed into his writings, so this shouldn't even be an issue.

Tolerance of intolerance IS intolerance.

Like most pithy sayings, this one fails to properly express a rational thought. To even use the words 'tolerance' or 'intolerance', you are suggesting an opinion. You say you want Card's opinions to be expressed, then complain that the prevalence of these opinions is the problem. Sounds to me like you don't have things clearly thought out. Do you want his opinions to be known, or do you want him to be silenced?

You call for an end of hatred, while foaming at the mouth. Would you counter hate with hate?

Such a shame. I too, want hatred to end. Angrily boycotting every single entity who has any negative thoughts or feelings is not how it can be accomplished.

 

[Shotphoenix]

I'm mixed.

On one hand, some of the Ender's Game books were simply great. On the other, bringing in a Novelist to write a video game probably won't work as well as the hope. Also Card is kind of a douche really, but damn if he didn't write some good books.

He's not exactly writing the whole story. He's just helping the existing Firefall writers expand and give characterization on the main plot idea of this game. It's not like in Extra Credit where they brought Card in during the middle of production. They're almost done with the game. Card's been with the team alot longer than July 1.

He's just helping them flesh out story and characters.

 

[Blind Sight]

Ah Scott Card...wacky little writer he is. I mean, I'm personally not a fan of neoliberal economic policies myself, but I severely doubt that liberals (nor conservatives, for that matter) would go from zero to murderous dictators in fifteen seconds (Empire is probably one of the more confusing books I've read in awhile). To be honest his work is actually fairly amusing to me, always funny to see what silly caricature he's going to come up with next (this is probably why I also enjoy Ann Coulter's and Michael Moore's work despite their writing being utter, misinformed trash the majority of the time). I'll give the guy some credit though, his comments on 'scientific dogma' are interesting because he seems to be legitimately concerned about the scientific field being selective in their research without him picking a certain side (he sees problems with evolution, but also has issues with intelligent design, he wants research into alternative fuel sources but criticizes notions of global warming, etc). Still a great writer though, his personal opinions don't really change my views on his work. He's kind of the political version of Harlan Ellison, who is largely a complete asshole (re: assaulting other writers) in real life, but still damn amusing (I recall him predicting the date of his own death awhile back).


I severely doubt the developers are going to let him inject the game with his certain brand of political belief.