Outlasted

Recommended Videos

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,908
0
0
The Wooster said:
Doom972 said:
Being able to kill monsters ruins the horror element. You can't fear the monsters if you know you can kill them.

That's the difference between horror and horror-themed games.
JimB said:
I wonder how far this complaint against genre contrivances extends. Like, take racing games. Surely your character, if he wanted to win, would be willing to get out before the race and sabotage his opponents' cars, so are racing games being annoyingly restrictive by not including that in the gameplay?

I know that sounded like a pretty smart-ass example, given that winning a car race isn't really all that similar to not being eaten by a monster with a vagina-like banana peel for a face, but no contempt for the complaint against player agency is intended. I just wonder where the line is.
A race game is simulating an event with rules. The player wouldn't sabotage his opponents car because a: if he gets caught, he'll be disqualified, b: it'll violate his/her innate sense of fair play. A more apt description would be, "man, a racing game where the player can't use his brakes would be so scary."

Renegade-pizza said:
Firstly, this seems appropriate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEbwhWDYwM

Secondly, while I am not a fan of games that ruin my underwear, pants and seat, I think it's to help create atmosphere. Extra-credits had an episode on horror games and mentioned that being unable to fight the monster makes you more frigthened, ala Ripley vs. Xenomorph(I like to call him Charles)
Ripley and her crew built a fucking flame thrower and chased that fucker into the Vents. They were proactive.
Well, as I said in some of my posts, a lot of it comes down to what your fighting. Yes, an opponent that can't be fought is scarier, but there needs to be a reason why it's that way. If your running from ghosts or the physical manifestation of a curse or something, it makes sense that your not going to be able to beat it to death with a heavy object. On the other hand we're talking about a lot of combat-free horror games (Outlast being the best of the bunch) where the enemies are conceptually not something that shouldn't be unbeatable, your dealing with regular 'ol crazy humans for the most part, and get plenty of chances to pretty much end some of these dudes stalking you. When it comes to most corporeal opponents this same logic applies and thus can be applied to things like say "Amnesia" (both games) as well for the most part.

I'll also say my opinion of extra credits is mixed, I liked some of their stuff, but when they were on The Escapist I was fairly critical of a lot of things they had to say, and my opinion continues to be mixed. To be honest dropping their name is a bad idea in most serious discussions, for exactly the reason pointed out here, they will use "Alien"
as an example for an enemy that couldn't be fought and was scarier for it, when in reality the whole point of "Alien" is despite being set in space the threat was scarier for being fairly believable, and the crew was pro-active. The Alien wasn't even all that tough, plenty of things they tried might have worked on it, it's just they failed. The flame thrower is a good example (and the Alien did indeed run from the fire, as opposed to just running through it and chowing down). "Alien" was basically a science fiction version of a scenario where a ship transporting a tiger had an accident and the hungry and POed tiger got loose with only half a dozen crew members on board. Sure a couple of bullets would do the trick, but first you have to find the damn thing and tigers are sneaky and ambush their prey. Knowing it's something you can deal with, but you keep failing, as people drop one by one, can be freakier than some ghost. It's just that "Alien" made the tiger an alien predator, and the crew unaware of the "cargo" and thus unprepared for it getting loose. The sequel made it pretty clear that individually these things are hardly invincible. Furthermore if the Alien had been invincible, it wouldn't have been much a movie, it wouldn't have needed to hide, sneak around, and build tension, it would have just walked in and started munching on people without worrying about things like concealing itself in the vents, or being cunning in dealing with it's prey. The lack of preparation is also a big part of the story as it's abundantly clear that if the corperation had trusted the transporters and seen to it that they knew what they had and were prepared it never would have went down this way, which makes their paranoia and betrayal sting.

Of course then again I'm not entirely sure "Alien" truly counts as a horror movie, I've always seen it as more of a suspense/thriller movie. Of course it's labeled as horror, so my opinion doesn't matter much.
 

Doom972

New member
Dec 25, 2008
2,311
0
0
The Wooster said:
Doom972 said:
Being able to kill monsters ruins the horror element. You can't fear the monsters if you know you can kill them.

That's the difference between horror and horror-themed games.
JimB said:
I wonder how far this complaint against genre contrivances extends. Like, take racing games. Surely your character, if he wanted to win, would be willing to get out before the race and sabotage his opponents' cars, so are racing games being annoyingly restrictive by not including that in the gameplay?

I know that sounded like a pretty smart-ass example, given that winning a car race isn't really all that similar to not being eaten by a monster with a vagina-like banana peel for a face, but no contempt for the complaint against player agency is intended. I just wonder where the line is.
A race game is simulating an event with rules. The player wouldn't sabotage his opponents car because a: if he gets caught, he'll be disqualified, b: it'll violate his/her innate sense of fair play. A more apt description would be, "man, a racing game where the player can't use his brakes would be so scary."

Renegade-pizza said:
Firstly, this seems appropriate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olEbwhWDYwM

Secondly, while I am not a fan of games that ruin my underwear, pants and seat, I think it's to help create atmosphere. Extra-credits had an episode on horror games and mentioned that being unable to fight the monster makes you more frigthened, ala Ripley vs. Xenomorph(I like to call him Charles)
Ripley and her crew built a fucking flame thrower and chased that fucker into the Vents. They were proactive.
And a true horror game simulates a situation in which most normal people would freak out at the sight of the monsters and not be able to fight them. That's why it wouldn't make sense for the player to be able to hit the monsters.
 

Vladimir Eremeyev

New member
Sep 23, 2012
33
0
0
It takes a really good game designer (and other people involved) to make a genuinely scary game with weapons. Taking away weapons is a choice for those who are either talentless or (in most cases) just too lazy to work this out.

Keep in mind your weapon doesn't have to actually work on the target.
 

Feotakahari

New member
Nov 1, 2012
3
0
0
How much of this applies to non-game horror? I generally dislike horror books and movies, because I usually find horror villains boring and tedious--they often seem to be powerful not because their natures are powerful, but because the author has imbued them with narrative force, such that characters who should be able to defeat them inexplicably become defenseless against them. I have a bit more patience for horror as a game, because you're generally allowed SOME degree of agency in monster avoidance, even if it's as simple as running rather than standing around like an idiot. Even so, I'm really more a fan of horror elements than of real, pure horror--my favorite game is The Suffering, which lets you kill monsters with a freaking flamethrower!
 

Adeptus Aspartem

New member
Jul 25, 2011
843
0
0
I hate horror games for the reason that i'm very prone to jump scares and even super crafted scary environments/atmospheres end in a jump scare for me. So basically i 100% die the first time in every new situation because i nearly throw my mouse through the whole room and then have to start over again - but the second time i'm hardly scared at all.

A more recent prime example would be Slenderman, where i was geniunily frightened and the first time i met the well-dressed baldie i nearly wet my pants. The second and third try? Not at all. Tried to outrun him and abuse the trees so i look at him and he doesn't teleport into my face etc. etc.

And giving me a gun doesn't help it at all. The jump scares will still startle me like crazy. Every Doom, Quake and what not did it and it didn't matter that i could blast them into tiny bits 0.5sec after they gave me the next adrenline rush.

:<