Roronoa Zoro fulfills all my fantasies and is one of the best written characters I've ever known 
(also he bench presses buildings and cuts trains in two).
(also he bench presses buildings and cuts trains in two).
Oversexualized but well written characters
- Thread starter IllumInaTIma
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Ghost in the Shell paints a world view very subtly at times. Motoko isn't so much singled out rediculously in her series, it's a reflection of a larger picture. When an economy/nation is doing well, skirts get shorter. This has been documented in the U.S. for the past 100 years. Japan is toying with being a super power in the first season of Ghost in the Shell due to the research of the past national trials (nuclear warfare, aging population) coming to fruition. In the second and on through the movies, the refugee situation and the northern provinces bring the country back down. Now notice how in the first season, the prime minister is wearing exactly what a female politician would wear in a socially conservative country- it's nearly old fashioned (i.e. reminiscent of the late 1980s in the late 2120s), it's blatantly red (research has been done about red clothing and power/authority assessment), it's distinctly professional attire, it's unmistakably feminine...but it also has a slit in the skirt nearly past the waist. As the story goes on, the same character wears nearly the same thing in nearly the same setting but due to the state of the country the slit is much lower.
In any other series, I'd throw that assessment away. In Ghost in the Shell, they actually rely on little details like that for world building.
As for the primary entreat of this thread, over-sexualization...The Major is actually under-sexualized in a way. As first created, the character is homosexual. The only times the show's pointed to her being sexually involved or even interested was a)when she hangs out with the lesbian couple she's a semi-third wheel to b)when she jokes in the second season about taking the team to a gentleman's club c)when she calls a teenager on his bluff. (The character in season two wasn't a sexual relationship, as everything from the relationship starting when they were children to her own definition of it being purely emotional.) And that's kind of the point: the character is a brain/personality piloting her artificial, swappable body. The fact that it's designed to look like a common civilian model, that she doesn't pursue relationships due to lacking some of the biological components that drive it along with a pseudo military career and background, that she doesn't feel what happens to her body she pilots it...all this leads up to one of her big character points and a plot point of the series as a whole.
A lot of what Ghost in the Shell is about is how human Motoko Katsuragi is and what being human in the first place means. Her under-sexualization is part of that. Nearly every attempt at fan-service is portrayed in a much more detached, clinical manner. The first movie opens with what should be pandering nudity, but it's technically PG-13 because it's artificial(i.e. like a background painting or sculpture) and medical(i.e. like surgery). The language in the movie drives it closer to R than the nudity in...well, that scene. When the character is shown exerting her body, it's blatantly from an engineering standpoint-like the time she ripped her muscles trying to pry a tank hatch off. When she's in deep feeling, it's from swimming the internet.
Motoko Katsuragi is one the least sexualized characters. And, at least I feel, that a lot of Ghost in the Shell is lost on the audience that doesn't understand that.
In any other series, I'd throw that assessment away. In Ghost in the Shell, they actually rely on little details like that for world building.
As for the primary entreat of this thread, over-sexualization...The Major is actually under-sexualized in a way. As first created, the character is homosexual. The only times the show's pointed to her being sexually involved or even interested was a)when she hangs out with the lesbian couple she's a semi-third wheel to b)when she jokes in the second season about taking the team to a gentleman's club c)when she calls a teenager on his bluff. (The character in season two wasn't a sexual relationship, as everything from the relationship starting when they were children to her own definition of it being purely emotional.) And that's kind of the point: the character is a brain/personality piloting her artificial, swappable body. The fact that it's designed to look like a common civilian model, that she doesn't pursue relationships due to lacking some of the biological components that drive it along with a pseudo military career and background, that she doesn't feel what happens to her body she pilots it...all this leads up to one of her big character points and a plot point of the series as a whole.
A lot of what Ghost in the Shell is about is how human Motoko Katsuragi is and what being human in the first place means. Her under-sexualization is part of that. Nearly every attempt at fan-service is portrayed in a much more detached, clinical manner. The first movie opens with what should be pandering nudity, but it's technically PG-13 because it's artificial(i.e. like a background painting or sculpture) and medical(i.e. like surgery). The language in the movie drives it closer to R than the nudity in...well, that scene. When the character is shown exerting her body, it's blatantly from an engineering standpoint-like the time she ripped her muscles trying to pry a tank hatch off. When she's in deep feeling, it's from swimming the internet.
Motoko Katsuragi is one the least sexualized characters. And, at least I feel, that a lot of Ghost in the Shell is lost on the audience that doesn't understand that.
TBH, I can forgive oversexualized characters if they are written really well
Miranda and Samara from ME2 (and 3) have great quests and genuinely likeable characters that you can sympathize and even empathize with.
Whats funny though is that those examples seem to even further damn characters that are designed with simply "BOOBS WILL SELL OUR GAME!" in mind *Cough* Lollipop Chainsaw *Cough*
Miranda and Samara from ME2 (and 3) have great quests and genuinely likeable characters that you can sympathize and even empathize with.
Whats funny though is that those examples seem to even further damn characters that are designed with simply "BOOBS WILL SELL OUR GAME!" in mind *Cough* Lollipop Chainsaw *Cough*
Horny teenagers, man.The Madman said:
I still don't see it in her outfit though. Roche's entire unit wear lighter armour and equipment because they're elite agents, behind-enemy-lines type people, rather than warriors in heavy mail/plate armour. So it does make sense for her to look lightly equipped. She is wearing a jacket, white shirt and some light-coloured pants that cover her whole body. I don't see anything sexual there, rather logical given the kind of troops Roche's unit are.
Yes, the part before 'OT' is about Jack. And you only really have sex with her in ME2 if you pick the renegade option when she asks you if this is about sex. If you take the paragon option... when she visits you before the suicide mission, all you do is cuddle. Compare that last love scene with Jack in ME2 with those of the other romanceable companions... they make it pretty clear when sex is or is not happening.BrotherRool said:
The only time you can actually have sex with her without her hating you is if you stay with her in ME3, by which time she's started to move on from a lot of her past, so hardly adding to her problems there.
Did I win?
When I played Mass Effect 2, I almost immediately saw the changes they made to her design. Though I also grew around to liking her more. She wasn't my romantic interest but I can somehow see other people doing it.
She isn't horny but I seriously think they brought out some sexual taunts with her.
Also, EVA's whole m.o. was to be a seductress, so it kind of fits. ...This time.King Aragorn said:
When you said that I thought of this video.oreso said:sumanoskae said:
Yeah, I was kinda using the word facetiously. I'm kinda tired of its looser meaning of "ZOMG! You found me attractive! You don't respect me, jerk!"
Folks should probably lose the shame and insecurity here. I can totally ogle Lara or anyone all day and it wouldn't mean anything special about how I regard them as a person/character overall.
Are you thinking about how she feels?
I guess Ashley, in ME3, isn't a bad character even if they added extra appeal to her. Miranda is on the same boat to, and it kind of fits into her story, being engineered to perfection.
Okay, I was talking about Samara and you quoted me saying 'except when you realise her tatoos...' which puzzled me a bit. And then I didn't include my bit when I quoted you making my comment look a little weird too =DTheDoctor455 said:
I didn't know that the paragon thing was only a cuddle. I'm glad about that, it was the way it should've been.
I think Miranda from Mass Effect proves that a Ms. Fanservice can still be a fully realized character. I'm quite partial to "Defrosting the Ice Queen" romances, and her's ranks (for me) among the best in gaming. Probably the reason Morrigan is my favorite romance from Dragon Age: Origins, as well. Yay Bioware.
As for Samara...BrotherRool said:
I think she chose to wear that outfit because she's well aware of the heroic sort of vids that circulate among the asari about the justicars... and I get the impression that she's trying to live up to them in every possible way. I mean, she clearly hates it when her code forces her to kill innocent people, and apparently... in the lore, there are some justicars that relish killing... so there's that.
Also, asari are generally much more aware and accepting of their own sexualities than most other species, so it isn't that unbelievable that their warrior-monks would wear something like that. Now, maybe its meant to be buttoned up a bit more than Samara has it, but its still form-fitting... which... in a practical sense... allows for better freedom of movement as long as it isn't too tight... which it doesn't seem to be.
Hm. I kinda see where people are coming from now with Samara. It does look kinda severe and dominatrixy. But I still think it would just be uncomfortable... Maybe that's the point?
With Jack though, I just don't see the objection. I know people who have that kind of style, even without her crazy devil-may-care upbringing. Saying that, I'd love to have a dialogue option where Shepherd says "My ship has a dress code. No shirt, no ride"... I think that'd go down great.
I'm sorry! I'm always attacking women with my degrading thoughts. Especially fictitious women. No one is safe from being complimented.
I just can't help but perpetuate a culture where sexual attraction exists.
Punish me! Please!
With Jack though, I just don't see the objection. I know people who have that kind of style, even without her crazy devil-may-care upbringing. Saying that, I'd love to have a dialogue option where Shepherd says "My ship has a dress code. No shirt, no ride"... I think that'd go down great.
That's just awesome, and very hawt. ^_^Eddie the head said:
I'm sorry! I'm always attacking women with my degrading thoughts. Especially fictitious women. No one is safe from being complimented.
I just can't help but perpetuate a culture where sexual attraction exists.
Punish me! Please!
Tbh, Jack wasn't really attractive at all. From the way she looked to the way she acted as a person.Zhukov said:
The dresssphere changing sequences yeah... The clothing dematerializes and you get to see the character's back of the body naked lol. I'm glad I had my PS2 in my room.gmaverick019 said:
As for Samara...TheDoctor455 said:
I think she chose to wear that outfit because she's well aware of the heroic sort of vids that circulate among the asari about the justicars... and I get the impression that she's trying to live up to them in every possible way. I mean, she clearly hates it when her code forces her to kill innocent people, and apparently... in the lore, there are some justicars that relish killing... so there's that.
Also, asari are generally much more aware and accepting of their own sexualities than most other species, so it isn't that unbelievable that their warrior-monks would wear something like that. Now, maybe its meant to be buttoned up a bit more than Samara has it, but its still form-fitting... which... in a practical sense... allows for better freedom of movement as long as it isn't too tight... which it doesn't seem to be.[/quote]
I don't buy that at all, Samara makes no effort to understand people and thats even relevant at points. She has no romantic spirit and sees her duty as worthwhile burden that requires her to surpress her emotions. She wouldn't dress up to 'live up to' the part. And in terms of sexuality, it comes up if you try to romance her and she says that it's her role to surpress that side of her. She would zip up her jumpsuit the whole way, or if it was having trouble fitting, where a jumpsuit that actually fits
Ha! I laughed my ass off at that video. XDEddie the head said:When you said that I thought of this video.oreso said:sumanoskae said:
Yeah, I was kinda using the word facetiously. I'm kinda tired of its looser meaning of "ZOMG! You found me attractive! You don't respect me, jerk!"
Folks should probably lose the shame and insecurity here. I can totally ogle Lara or anyone all day and it wouldn't mean anything special about how I regard them as a person/character overall.
Are you thinking about how she feels?
Anyway, oversexualized but well written parts...Morrigan comes first to mind, but someone has already said that.
Honestly, I don't really care. Take Samara and Jack, for example, who are being talked about a lot in here. I noticed that Jack wore next to nothing and moved on. Never even noticed Samara was wearing something extremely skin tight, just seemed normal for that universe.
You know I don't really agree with Jack being sexualized. Maybe it's just because I've never found myself even the slightest bit attracted to her though. So meh.Binnsyboy said:
I think the real reason so many of the female characters are over sexualized in Mass Effect 2 is Bioware and EA really saw a pretty significant sales boost over that whole Alien sex simulator business. It got a lot of free press, both in the accusation and defense of it. So when they made Mass Effect 2 they decided "sexy is the way to go."
Miranda it's hard to say, as a character she seems to know her good looks are by design and chooses to use it to her advantage. So in the character department I give it a pass because I think she might actually choose the skin tight catsuit look. But in the game design department I don't because lets face it the gratuitous ass shots of her during conversation is really a bit much.