[P] Hundreds of Current and Former Police Officers Reportedly Found in Extremist Facebook Groups

[Worgen]

Fundamentally, people inclined to respect and like the police for law and order don't like to deal with the cognitive dissonance that they can also be jackbooted thugs, and perpetually give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also, I think a lot of the excusing is really a sort of psychological defensiveness. That the police, which they view as protecting them, are dodgy and might decide to rough people - including perhaps one day them - up for shits and giggles is anxiety-inducing. It is thus calming to simply refuse to believe that will happen. I think the same sort of process is part of victim blaming in rape: to believe that someone raped "did something wrong" to bring it on themselves creates an illusion of control with which to believe it will not happen to oneself.

Which, on the surface, shows why Black America can't just 'fit in' as the majority wants so desperately. Because the people you so rightfully spoke about are people from the Majority or the Acceptable Minorities. One that are presented with an one reality. Government doesn't actively try to screw them over, Police do not torment them, Their race has never been a true hindrance for them.

The most common response I've heard after a sympathetic person from the majority is brought to light about what happens is usually "This is awful" with complete shock and disgust. That's understandable. But the common response right after is "How could I not have known". And that's where I'm mixed.

To not have known, there is only one possible reason: You come from a very insular community where you don't have minorities around. And save for a few special examples, even that is hard to believe because one would have to work to avoid all media. And yes, there are people like that. But not many people as who claim they had no idea.

Here's a clip of a really on point and very, very well done look about race and gun rights. The following was a documentary/expose about how the public views Whites and Blacks with open carry guns. The presenter is speaking about a time where a Black Activist Group called Guerrilla Mainframe decided to have an Open Carry Protest at a Texas football game. Which compromises of them kitted out in some serious firearms and doing chants, mainly opposed to the treatment of Blacks by police. And spoiler alert, most of them are angry and feel the nice way just gets you ignored. Listen to 30:23 to get my point


I invite everyone to watch the whole thing. It was fascinating to me from beginning to end. But to the clip itself, we are all living a facade. One of Pro-Everything Good. While I try to be a good person without bias, I gotta tell you that I get Guerrilla Mainframe's frustration. You ask yourself do people just want you to be civil so they can either ignore you or yell over you, like people did with Kaepernick.

Meanwhile, you get the majority of people who are like those kids (He calls them kids, but at a certain age, even 20 year olds become kids). Who pretend to be without bias and who are saints who are with it, but who are so deeply uncomfortable with the idea of Blacks calling for change like whites have with open carry and/or racist ideals that they were willing to make that place into a potential bloodbath with involving police. If they know the buzzwords and what to say (i.e. "I don't even see color"), then they know the current climate and what happens when Police are introduced to a situation with black people. THESE are the people more dangerous than a dozen Hate Groups.

The ones who pretend to be allies while being completely scared and self-serving. Those who say enough so they don't have to be hassled. To look enlightened. But are not ready to suffer a modicum of work or effort to actually affect change. Sadly, too many people once heard these platitudes and thought them real. That reason and sense will win the day. But in reality, The movement was started and the Black Community from themselves largely alone.

People need to stop pretending being a cop is inherently good. Being a good cop is good, but most cops are not good.

I say we should make good cops stand out too; not as a "not all cops" argument, but to show to bad cops that being a cop is no excuse for abusing the power. Make those cops Chiefs so they can clean up their local police department.

The problem with that is you don't know what's for show. Have you ever heard of the Dancing Cop?

He sucker punched a man (Jonathan Robinson) [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/video-showed-the-dancing-cop-punching-a-man-in-the-face-now] who placed his body between his wife and child after an officer (with his hand on his gun and according to Robinson, his finger on the trigger [https://www.nbcnews.com/video/body-cam-footage-shows-ohio-dancing-cop-punching-man-61704773855]) commanded her to not go back into their own house.

After Robinson was arrested, this happened

'None of this was necessary,' Robinson says from the back seat.

'You did this to yourself,' another officer replies. 'You came running up on a scene with your fist clenched. And you swung at an officer.'

Robinson said his only concern was his wife and children.

'What was you ready to do to my wife and kids,' he said. 'You were ready to hurt her, was you not?'

Officers already adding to the charges to justify an arrest. There was no swing, but they have to say there was to make it a just bust. No matter of the video evidence.

Sadly, with all people, Good Cops are good when they are good. And subject to being crappy just like the rest of us.

Sadly the black position really isn't helped by fence sitting moderate idiots. If you have 3 hours to listen to a vid, the audio is whats important then this is quite illuminating.


The short of it is Destiny debating this guy who I get the feeling doesn't want to be racist, but then goes out of his way to argue for the racists just because hes trying too hard to be "both sides of the issue." It seems like its actually really easy to get caught up in that kinda thing then when your called out for it, taking the defensive position and ending up with the racists since you don't see yourself saying anything racist and assuming the other side just calls everyone racist so it doesn't matter.

 

[Worgen]

I thought facebook was starting to delete alt right groups and anything not lefty.

Actually the left tends to get hit by bans and censorship more then the right. But the left doesn't really have as many big money people around to help give it a megaphone. It isn't helped that most left arguments take some nuance while you can just yell feelings from the right and that the right is more then willing to ally itself with other groups that it doesn't agree with but will help move people in their direction. Don't see as much of that on the left.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Sadly the black position really isn't helped by fence sitting moderate idiots. If you have 3 hours to listen to a vid, the audio is whats important then this is quite illuminating.


The short of it is Destiny debating this guy who I get the feeling doesn't want to be racist, but then goes out of his way to argue for the racists just because hes trying too hard to be "both sides of the issue." It seems like its actually really easy to get caught up in that kinda thing then when your called out for it, taking the defensive position and ending up with the racists since you don't see yourself saying anything racist and assuming the other side just calls everyone racist so it doesn't matter.

He has a habit of doing this, doesn't he? I remember listening to a cast that he had in the past about racism.

People like the one he's debating aren't even Fence Sitting. He's literally coming from his bias and only sticking to that. He literally says he's skeptical of studies, but he keeps talking about statistics. Even when report after report after report comes out on the 'benign' side of police having to do arrest or they will lose their jobs to two women falsifying evidence for 50,000 people to the outing of actual racists in the police force.

Any one of those should cause you to question everything about the stats you hold so dear. All of them combined and happening at the same time should easily tell you that you don't have the truth of the matter.

But he'll ignore those situations. He'll ignore studies about how blacks can't even get a job because of their name and then will make excuses for why it's ok to not hire people on suspicion... but then go back to these facts that were made by people who could have any three of those situations I just mentioned (and more), and talk about them like they are undeniable truths.

And sidebar... this always upsets me when I hear someone non-African American talk about an 'black sounding name'.

All names come from the society they are in. While you might see one today, that's the reason why 'William' isn't a traditional Japanese name. They didn't have the sounds, nor the society that attributed meaning to those sounds. African American Society is from the ground up rebuilding their society and history. Do people really not get that?

This might be a shocker, but African Americans do not just want to take White American Culture as their surrogate culture. Every person in this world has some semblance of connection with their cultural of their birth. Even if it's doing everything possible to shun it. Having a dialect, shared traditions, and sounding to be uniquely apart of that culture (again, why a native born Japanese man with the given name of William would be curious to most would be a thing) is a major part of belonging to a culture.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

People need to stop pretending being a cop is inherently good. Being a good cop is good, but most cops are not good.

I say we should make good cops stand out too; not as a "not all cops" argument, but to show to bad cops that being a cop is no excuse for abusing the power. Make those cops Chiefs so they can clean up their local police department.

Agreed, I don't believe that every single cop is a bad person.

My brother actually tried to get into the police academy... tried being a key word, for a variety of reasons he didn't make it. But I don't think he would turn into a corrupt cop. 'Course that could just be my bias speaking...

 

[Worgen]

Sadly the black position really isn't helped by fence sitting moderate idiots. If you have 3 hours to listen to a vid, the audio is whats important then this is quite illuminating.


The short of it is Destiny debating this guy who I get the feeling doesn't want to be racist, but then goes out of his way to argue for the racists just because hes trying too hard to be "both sides of the issue." It seems like its actually really easy to get caught up in that kinda thing then when your called out for it, taking the defensive position and ending up with the racists since you don't see yourself saying anything racist and assuming the other side just calls everyone racist so it doesn't matter.

He has a habit of doing this, doesn't he? I remember listening to a cast that he had in the past about racism.

People like the one he's debating aren't even Fence Sitting. He's literally coming from his bias and only sticking to that. He literally says he's skeptical of studies, but he keeps talking about statistics. Even when report after report after report comes out on the 'benign' side of police having to do arrest or they will lose their jobs to two women falsifying evidence for 50,000 people to the outing of actual racists in the police force.

Any one of those should cause you to question everything about the stats you hold so dear. All of them combined and happening at the same time should easily tell you that you don't have the truth of the matter.

But he'll ignore those situations. He'll ignore studies about how blacks can't even get a job because of their name and then will make excuses for why it's ok to not hire people on suspicion... but then go back to these facts that were made by people who could have any three of those situations I just mentioned (and more), and talk about them like they are undeniable truths.

And sidebar... this always upsets me when I hear someone non-African American talk about an 'black sounding name'.

All names come from the society they are in. While you might see one today, that's the reason why 'William' isn't a traditional Japanese name. They didn't have the sounds, nor the society that attributed meaning to those sounds. African American Society is from the ground up rebuilding their society and history. Do people really not get that?

This might be a shocker, but African Americans do not just want to take White American Culture as their surrogate culture. Every person in this world has some semblance of connection with their cultural of their birth. Even if it's doing everything possible to shun it. Having a dialect, shared traditions, and sounding to be uniquely apart of that culture (again, why a native born Japanese man with the given name of William would be curious to most would be a thing) is a major part of belonging to a culture.

Keep in mind, the guy who Destiny is talking to thinks he is a moderate who is looking at the issue from both sides, or at least is pretending to be that. Which is rather hilarious considering all the racist shit he says is justified.

That is what people like the other guy do, they tend to pull stats that seem to support their argument but usually they don't so then they just retreat back to feeling.

IT seems like a lot of people on the right seem to acknowledge that jim crow and red lining were things but think that it should only take a little bit to get over it. There is this whole meme the right and centrists love that is about anyone can make it if they just work hard and if they don't make it then they just didn't try hard enough, that external factors don't matter. Its very stupid.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Agreed, I don't believe that every single cop is a bad person.

My brother actually tried to get into the police academy... tried being a key word, for a variety of reasons he didn't make it. But I don't think he would turn into a corrupt cop. 'Course that could just be my bias speaking...

I was about to actually take my psych exam after passing the written.

The problem is that I think there are smaller and smaller avenues for people who just want to do the job available. From the small towns whose budget primarily exists by tickets they give... and those tickets are easier to give to minorities to the big cities like Manhattan where they also need to pull in a certain number of arrests and have the 'acceptable' demographic to pick on.

Those who speak out normally get hammered down.

Adrian Schoolcraft [https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/nyregion/officer-who-disclosed-police-misconduct-settles-suit.html] was arrested and 'hospitalized for a mental break'. Joe Crystal [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/baltimore-joe-crystal_n_7582374] was dubbed a 'Rat Cop' for simply speaking out about police brutality. The same police district that Michael Wood [https://www.newsweek.com/michael-wood-baltimore-police-department-whistleblower-freddie-gray-369098] famously exposed.

The rate of Black Males [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/the-stop-race-police-traffic/] being pulled over but not found to have any more criminal wrong doing than whites are disproportionately staggering. Yeah, I'm sure a good deal of it has to do with bias. But it's training. It's being taught that you're allowed to do this to this population.

It's happened to black cops. It would have happened to me. I pray that you're right and your brother (and hopefully myself) would have resisted it. I'm sorry he couldn't fulfill his dream, though. We definitely need good people behind the badge.

Keep in mind, the guy who Destiny is talking to thinks he is a moderate who is looking at the issue from both sides, or at least is pretending to be that. Which is rather hilarious considering all the racist shit he says is justified.

That is what people like the other guy do, they tend to pull stats that seem to support their argument but usually they don't so then they just retreat back to feeling.

IT seems like a lot of people on the right seem to acknowledge that jim crow and red lining were things but think that it should only take a little bit to get over it. There is this whole meme the right and centrists love that is about anyone can make it if they just work hard and if they don't make it then they just didn't try hard enough, that external factors don't matter. Its very stupid.

I just keep listening to this guy suck his teeth everytime Destiny points out a fallacy in his thinking. I haven't gotten through the entire thing yet (at 1:08:32), but I just keep wondering can he not see that his thinking is the exact reason Blacks can't get ahead.

His ideas about privatizing schools and the money follows the child. If the money for schools come from property tax, it doesn't matter if ten cents follows Tyrone from five minutes away to thirty five minutes away. It's still Ten cents of Education.

And how it's reasonable for blacks not to be hired because of suspicions of a vague ideal about a group. Well, that person can't get a better job, so he stays in a district that can't afford education.

And his idea that when the inability for a group to find work, they have the tendancy to become homeless and resort to crime... Great, so being able to not hire blacks because of suspicion or as he put it later, the lack of feeling kinship reduces blacks' ability to get a better education and leaves very few avenues other than crime to survive.

Yet he still thinks it's on Blacks to somehow find a way through this while allowing the Majority to deny every avenue to get out of this hole?

These are the people we have to bring logic to? Really? Was summoning a Dragon and wrestling it to the ground until it sings all of Dolly Parton's hits deemed too easy?

 

[Seanchaidh]

Keep in mind, the guy who Destiny is talking to thinks he is a moderate who is looking at the issue from both sides, or at least is pretending to be that. Which is rather hilarious considering all the racist shit he says is justified.

That is what people like the other guy do, they tend to pull stats that seem to support their argument but usually they don't so then they just retreat back to feeling.

IT seems like a lot of people on the right seem to acknowledge that jim crow and red lining were things but think that it should only take a little bit to get over it. There is this whole meme the right and centrists love that is about anyone can make it if they just work hard and if they don't make it then they just didn't try hard enough, that external factors don't matter. Its very stupid.

It is the kind of stupidity that any ideology supportive of capitalism depends on, which is why it will never be completely extinguished until capitalism is completely extinguished. If capitalism is not quite so dynamic that history doesn't matter at all, then history is relevant and people come to realize that not only does capitalism give meaningful power to an incredibly small number of people, but the entire thing is built on slavery, stolen land (and ethnic cleansing), and the people in control today are the descendants of those who were best positioned to take advantage of all that-- not by doing anything productive particularly well but by owning the right assets at the right times and benefiting from the work of others.

That includes our most recent 'tech innovators'. To a man (and in a relatively few cases woman, and I'm not aware of any nonbinary or trans tech billionaires, though they are technically possible), the supposed genius of all of them is reducible to owning the right (very lucrative) set of labor output-- the work of other people.

There was an argument recently over whether the ex-wife of Jeff Bezos really deserved all the billions she received as a result of her husband's ownership of Amazon. The clear answer is that of course she didn't; neither did her husband! Billionaires are never, ever self-made. They are socially produced, like all other products of capitalism (including capital itself). Not a single one of them would be more remarkable than a dollar bill smeared in shit without their employees (or, in the more abstracted cases, the employees of all the firms they own shares in).

The relationship of a Chinese millionaire to random businesses or real estate they might buy in Manhattan is illustrative of all ownership in capitalism: there is nothing productive going on there, there is simply someone very far away who reaps a profit from having legal ownership over something other people need or want to use. What is crucial is that this is all that ownership ever entails: there is a process that produces value. There are people who produce the value (or maintain the existing value of some property). And entirely separate from that process and those people is the owner who receives the profit. In the case of industrial capitalism: workers need to use the means of production to realize value by creating a product, so the capitalist takes that value by taking ownership of and then selling (typically through other employees) the produce in return for the worker accepting a mere wage rather than the whole value of their labor. The value is socially produced. The means of production are socially produced. The gains are privatized.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

*snips*

Finished it. The Guy (Mr. Reagan) is an idiot. And worst off, he's that idiot who will sidestep every failing he has ("You know, I've never thought about that point. I should give it some thought and get back to you") and will harp on other's failing ("You know, I feel bad that we're having this conversation because you're ignorant about this subject").

He had no points. He just said "I've read articles"... but he ignores studies he doesn't want to believe. Wow. I'm not sure whether to shake your hand or curse you for sharing it.

So I'm going to go with 'Thanks for the learning experience'.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

What's that? Law enforcement is packed with the Klan?

Someone cue the clip of Iago being sarcastically surprised. Or actually don't. This is way too serious for that.

Of course these kinds of disgusting people are attracted to positions of power and violence like that. Of course they'll claim it for themselves. This is just more proof on top of that FBI report from about 2 years ago.

And people will still do mental gymnastics.

You know what the worst thing about this topic is?

I feel like it's already lost.

It totally is.

The media is too spineless to really push back against even egregious cases. The Powers That Be claims it's "just a few bad apples", no caring that they're spoiling the bunch. The average person just thinks things are getting more violent and wondering "Why is this suddenly happening now? Did the blacks cause this?! I mean, the cops are there to protect us, right? They would NEVER!". Etc etc etc.

There needs to be some kind of highly vetted, insanely transparent federal force that investigates the cops and busts the precinct that are letting this shit happen. But of course, that ain't going to work because these creeps will just infiltrate there too and it'll be bastardized before you can say "Freeze". -_-

 

[Saelune]

People need to stop pretending being a cop is inherently good. Being a good cop is good, but most cops are not good.

I say we should make good cops stand out too; not as a "not all cops" argument, but to show to bad cops that being a cop is no excuse for abusing the power. Make those cops Chiefs so they can clean up their local police department.

Too many people cling to those as excuses though.

I mean, hey, I love when cops actually end up being heroes. Saw one about a burly biker-looking white cop helping save a black infant's life, and is apparently now the kid's godfather. I like that story, but doesn't mean that the problem is over or non-existent, hell, that guy probably has racist 'buddies' who would not have been so heroic.

But then lots of kinds of people are too often praised as inherently good, when that's just not true. Cops, Doctors, Teachers, Parents, etc.

Yeah, for those of us who know better, its nice to be reminded that there is still good in the world, but the closed-minded usually need a lot to open those minds up.

Even I doubted the evil of cops for a time. I think a lot of people forget I used to be a lot more 'moderate'.

 

[Jarrito3002]

To the surprise of no one who was already in the know. I mean you expect the police in the backward community of Bodemuk, Arkansas whatever to have strong feelings of promoting diversity. This does not shock me my father and my uncles on both sides of my family can tell you many stories pulled over. Hell my cousin in his 30s had a incident not too long ago.

I get it. I felt it too a long time ago that colorblindness was the best thing ever and the best way to solve problems but no its a flaw and living in fantasy land. Trying to not see color does not stop racism just throws all the problems under rug but at the end of the day there is still a big pile of dirt.

 

[Thaluikhain]

There needs to be some kind of highly vetted, insanely transparent federal force that investigates the cops and busts the precinct that are letting this shit happen. But of course, that ain't going to work because these creeps will just infiltrate there too and it'll be bastardized before you can say "Freeze". -_-

While that's a problem, if you do it on a federal level, otherwise separate from the people under investigation, it'd make a difference. Whenever a US police officer does wrong, his colleagues rally behind them, or lose their jobs. If it's some distant agency that has no personal or professional relationship with the person in question, you'd not get that so much.

 

[Trunkage]

Alright United Kingdom, you can cancel this "social experiment" you call "United States of America" now. You have proven your point that people can't govern themselves and that they need the Queen's crown in order to be decent human beings.

I feel sorry for Americans on the Escapist because you guys live in a true shit hole country, to use a certain person's words.

The Uk's no better. stabbings, acid attacks, licensees for everything, cops visiting you for saying mean things online...yeah such freedom

The violent crimes rate is about 120/100 000 citizens while US is about 340. So it's almost 3 timed better...

 

[Trunkage]

To the surprise of no one who was already in the know. I mean you expect the police in the backward community of Bodemuk, Arkansas whatever to have strong feelings of promoting diversity. This does not shock me my father and my uncles on both sides of my family can tell you many stories pulled over. Hell my cousin in his 30s had a incident not too long ago.

I get it. I felt it too a long time ago that colorblindness was the best thing ever and the best way to solve problems but no its a flaw and living in fantasy land. Trying to not see color does not stop racism just throws all the problems under rug but at the end of the day there is still a big pile of dirt.

Is this like the gun debate? You know where the NRA pretend that gun control advocates say it eliminates gun violence. So any further gun violence clearly indicates that gun control fails... When most advocates just say gun control will reduce violence and don't make outlandish claims that the NRA make up. (I.e. Lie to gain political advantage)

Gun control has dramatically reduced gun violence. It hasn't disappeared. Colourblindness has reduced racism but it doesn't get rid of all of it. It never will. Laws against murder never stops all murderers. Laws against slavery hasn't gotten rid of slavery. But they sure have reduced it.

 

[Shadowstar38]

snip

There needs to be some kind of highly vetted, insanely transparent federal force that investigates the cops and busts the precinct that are letting this shit happen. But of course, that ain't going to work because these creeps will just infiltrate there too and it'll be bastardized before you can say "Freeze". -_-

While that's a problem, if you do it on a federal level, otherwise separate from the people under investigation, it'd make a difference. Whenever a US police officer does wrong, his colleagues rally behind them, or lose their jobs. If it's some distant agency that has no personal or professional relationship with the person in question, you'd not get that so much.

Aren't you just describing the Internal Affairs Bureau?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

The violent crimes rate is about 120/100 000 citizens while US is about 340. So it's almost 3 timed better...

Stuff like this kills me. This isn't really an attack on you, Trunkage, but every time I see this it just baffles me.

This thread is about how an unknown amount of cops are apart of various racial groups. We've had threads that have shown conflicting accounts of what actually happened and what people are arrested for. Hell, I just linked in this thread about a man who stepped in between his wife and a cop with a gun and his hand, the other cop who punched him, and how they blithely added that the man 'swung at the officer [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/video-showed-the-dancing-cop-punching-a-man-in-the-face-now]'.

I'm not saying there's not violent crime. That's a lot of bull. Every country has a crime. But what I'm saying is that we really have no idea what the actual numbers are because of a system that's either corrupted by bias or the need for an exorbitant amount of arrests to justify their budgets.

 

[Worgen]

To the surprise of no one who was already in the know. I mean you expect the police in the backward community of Bodemuk, Arkansas whatever to have strong feelings of promoting diversity. This does not shock me my father and my uncles on both sides of my family can tell you many stories pulled over. Hell my cousin in his 30s had a incident not too long ago.

I get it. I felt it too a long time ago that colorblindness was the best thing ever and the best way to solve problems but no its a flaw and living in fantasy land. Trying to not see color does not stop racism just throws all the problems under rug but at the end of the day there is still a big pile of dirt.

Is this like the gun debate? You know where the NRA pretend that gun control advocates say it eliminates gun violence. So any further gun violence clearly indicates that gun control fails... When most advocates just say gun control will reduce violence and don't make outlandish claims that the NRA make up. (I.e. Lie to gain political advantage)

Gun control has dramatically reduced gun violence. It hasn't disappeared. Colourblindness has reduced racism but it doesn't get rid of all of it. It never will. Laws against murder never stops all murderers. Laws against slavery hasn't gotten rid of slavery. But they sure have reduced it.

You're wrong, the nra doesn't say that gun control advocates say it will eliminate gun violence. They say gun control advocates say it will eliminate all violence, so if anyone even gets stabbed by a knife, then it was a failure. Then they make fun of people trying to stop knife violence since "I thought gun control was supposed to stop violence, get wreked libs lawl."