Palin/Biden Debate

[Pipotchi]

How is he a liberal republican if he agrees with everything Bush wants?
He wants to Stay in Iraq-
He wants to drill for oil.
He wants to de-regulate some more!
He wants to give tax cuts to the rich.

I think that's the staple example of a republican party member.


I don't know how much more those two can get more like Bush/Crazy.!

He wants to Stay in Iraq-(to finish a mess right)
He wants to drill for oil.(for cheaper oil and less energy dependence)
He wants to de-regulate some more!(freedom! its a good thing)
He wants to give tax cuts to the rich.(which puts more money back into the econ.)

hes liberal in that he believes global warming created mccain feingold he always goes across the isle on issues etc, he shares no love of bush.

Good lord I didnt realise anyone ever actually belived that 'tax cuts for the rich increase the economy as a whole because it trickles downward' theory

Anyways back on Topic, I thought a moderate win for Biden in the debate as he showed that he could actually thiuk for himself and has a wealth of practical experience, the main factors in Obama picking him. Palin did ok but no real substance to her

 

[Spartan Bannana]

Palin wasn't like she usually was, I watched just to see her mess up and was very disappointed but did anyone else notice how she kept changing the topic and saying "Can we talk about X topic for a second?" that's the moderator's job, not her's, one thing that annoyed me about Biden though is that he kept talking about himself and the things he'd done, and he talked in 3rd person, which really just pisses me off.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

That dog don't hunt.

You've thrown away your individual freedoms, sacrificing them on the altar of security by allowing Homeland Security a free pass around the guarantees offered by your own Constitution. Government in the US has never been so big as it is now, has never spent itself so deeply into debt (to foreign powers, no less) as now, has never overextended its military so badly as now (not even in WW2 or the late stages of Vietnam), or had leaders more out-of-touch with the average citizen despite the superficial attempts to be "one of the guys" as now.

And it may not matter to some Americans that their leader is held in the same contempt as Kim Jong-Il in many nations around the world, but I imagine it will matter to those who hold all that debt of yours... which means they will once that debt is called in.

Think carefully on what is important to America before voting; don't allow superficial trappings of patriotism distract you from taking a good, unflinching look at how your country is doing and what is needed to ensure its future prosperity.

-- Steve

Well done. I am an American and more conservative than many, but I am not blind to a government that praises freedom with one hand and destroys it with the other. As a southerner, I agree with you very strongly, especially about the rights of individuals and the expansion of government. I will of course be voting Democrat.

Of Palin, I thought she appeared competent, which in any other election year would be an insult. Speaking of, I view her selection as Vice Presidential candidate as a transparent political maneuver and an insult to my intelligence.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

By the way, just to let you guys know, I'm offering friendly advice that's frankly against my own interests it seems; at this very moment, Canadian investors (mainly senior citizens) are buying plenty of real estate in Florida and Arizona given the fire sale prices left by the popping of your housing bubble, and your banks are so cash-strapped that they don't dare say "no".

The current American administration is literally selling America out in the name of keeping taxes low and spending high. Is that patriotic?

-- Steve

 

[haveyouseen_mywallet]

yeah sneaky penguin, dude that thinking it starting to become a dying breed, i just think obama is the better candidate, but i can agree on some of what you think. i think joey ramone said it best, "the republicans want my porn and the democrats want my guns, they're not getting either."

 

[sneakypenguin]

Double post

 

[sneakypenguin]

Obama wants to improve the healthcare system, but we all know what that will lead to.

Better healthcare!

Oh sorry, was that rhetorical?

its socialized medicine
I have to pay for yours,Higher cost,I have to pay for yours, less freedom of choice in healthcare providers, I have to pay for yours, more government control in my life, I have to pay for yours, waiting list, I have to pay for yours, some of you might not care about individual freedom as much as I do but really do we have to have the government run healthcare for us. You wouldn't like them telling you when where and how much you can game. So why would we want them telling us when where how much about our healthcare.

 

[SilentHunter7]

You already pay for other people's healthcare. It's called insurance premiums. Where do you think companies get the money for claims?

And I'd much rather the government decide my healthcare than a bunch of insurance execs in an office skyscraper 200 miles away. And considering more than half of Americans get their insurance through their employer because they cant pay for it otherwise, we dont decide anything anyway.

 

[Alex_P]

its socialized medicine

You mean that thing that every other wealthy industrialized nation already has? They all "socialize" the financing of medicine without "socializing" its delivery.

And we already spend more money on healthcare than they do. And our healthcare system are, honestly, crap.

You're comparing "socialized medicine" to some impossible libertarian ideal. Compare single-payer universal healthcare to our current system of managed care instead.

Right now, you're paying for other people's care -- that's how insurance works. Right now, your insurer limits your treatment options much more strongly than a universal system would. And your choice of insurers is, of course, limited by which ones have made a deal with your employer; actually getting an insurer independently costs a shitload of money.

-- Alex

EDIT: Bah, beaten to the punch.

 

[Souplex]

As I have pointed out before, Mcain is really damn old and the stress from the POW camp he wont shut up about and a stressfull political career have aged him drastically. The very shock of being told he won an election would probably give him a fatal heart attack. So Palin basically is running for president and pretending to run for vice-president.

 

[sneakypenguin]

You already pay for other people's healthcare. It's called insurance premiums.

And I'd much rather the government decide my healthcare than a bunch of insurance execs in an office skyscraper 200 miles away.

(as opposed to a government exec 200 miles away in a governmental building? lol

Hmm yes but I chose how much I pay for others healthcare(with private healthcare), and premiums(at least mine) are lower than taxes.
Execs don't decide your healthcare you do. You have the option to change providers if they don't suit you.You chose what doctor what hospital what opperations you want done. You have the option to just not have insurance and pay out of pocket.
Whereas with government run healthcare you pay no matter what(in taxes) you can't dump them for another company that works better for you, they control what you can and can't get done, demand exceeds supply(ie waiting list for non critical services)
How is socialized medicine better? Unless you don't want to deal with it and just think it's better for someone else to do things for you, or just don't want the responsibility of caring for yourself

 

[Dogeman5]

The worst I view is that when Mc Cain has a stroke in office,he dies and channels all of his Sit- errgh Republican powers to Palin making her The all powerful Librarian

He wants to give tax cuts to the rich.(which puts more money back into the econ.)

The trickle-down theory does not work

 

[sneakypenguin]

The worst I view is that when Mc Cain has a stroke in office,he dies and channels all of his Sit- errgh Republican powers to Palin making her The all powerful Librarian

He wants to give tax cuts to the rich.(which puts more money back into the econ.)

The trickle-down theory does not work

Why doesn't it? If i make 200 thousand and I get a 10 thousand dollar tax cut do I not then have an extra 10k to spend? on whatever be it new furniture or bigger TV. How does giving me more money to spend in the local economy not put more money in the economy. Maybe I'm missing something, do explain why it doesn't work.

EDIT: I shall stop posting on this thread I swear. I have about half the post on this page, my apologies

 

[Avatar Roku]

You already pay for other people's healthcare. It's called insurance premiums.

And I'd much rather the government decide my healthcare than a bunch of insurance execs in an office skyscraper 200 miles away.

(as opposed to a government exec 200 miles away in a governmental building? lol

Hmm yes but I chose how much I pay for others healthcare(with private healthcare), and premiums(at least mine) are lower than taxes.
Execs don't decide your healthcare you do. You have the option to change providers if they don't suit you.You chose what doctor what hospital what opperations you want done. You have the option to just not have insurance and pay out of pocket.
Whereas with government run healthcare you pay no matter what(in taxes) you can't dump them for another company that works better for you, they control what you can and can't get done, demand exceeds supply(ie waiting list for non critical services)
How is socialized medicine better? Unless you don't want to deal with it and just think it's better for someone else to do things for you, or just don't want the responsibility of caring for yourself

Socialized medicine is better because we have to take into account those who can't afford the choice, who are one sickness away from being completely broke.

The trickle-down theory does not work

It most certainly does...in theory. In practice, however, it has failed miserably.

Kinda off topic, just throwing it out there, anyone think we should get rid of the electoral college?

Back on topic, I am disgusted with McCain's choice in Palin, not because I dislike her personally so much (I do, but I try not to let that color my politics) but because of how blatant a ploy it is. As soon as my mom heard, she too was disgusted by the insult to her and every other woman's intelligence.

BTW, you know the whole "bridge to nowhere" thing that Palin gets credit for stopping? Turns out, she originally requested it, accepted funds for it, and then when public opinion turned against it, she stopped it and kept the money.

One last thing, anyone else notice Palin's double standards? "We need more government regulation." Five seconds later "We need to get the government out of Wall street." "I stopped the oil companies from drilling and defacing the beauty of Alaska." Five seconds later "We need to drill in Alaska."

 

[Ultrajoe]

The worst I view is that when Mc Cain has a stroke in office,he dies and channels all of his Sit- errgh Republican powers to Palin making her The all powerful Librarian

He wants to give tax cuts to the rich.(which puts more money back into the econ.)

The trickle-down theory does not work

Why doesn't it? If i make 200 thousand and I get a 10 thousand dollar tax cut do I not then have an extra 10k to spend? on whatever be it new furniture or bigger TV. How does giving me more money to spend in the local economy not put more money in the economy. Maybe I'm missing something, do explain why it doesn't work.

EDIT: I shall stop posting on this thread I swear. I have about half the post on this page, my apologies

Oddly enough, when you have an extra 10 thousand to spend, you probably wont.

The rich spend surprisingly little day to day... because they're rich.

The best way to sum this up is the 'Sir Samuel Vimes 'Boots' Theory Of Economic Inequality'. A must read for any financial mind.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

(as opposed to a government exec 200 miles away in a governmental building? lol

It's government man! Come from the Government! The Government has sent me!

You have the option to change providers if they don't suit you.

"Oh god, jesus, oh god"
"It's ok sir, we are going to get you to a hospital"
*argghhh*
"Prep the IV, he's loosing a lot of blood"
*gurgle*
"Sir? SIr?"
"I....."
"Shit, we're loosing him!"
"listen!"
*cough*
"Don't take me to John Hopkins, I don't like their hourly rates"
*agonized moaning*

Dramatic recreation of why libertarian ideals fail at medicine.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Why doesn't it? If i make 200 thousand and I get a 10 thousand dollar tax cut do I not then have an extra 10k to spend? on whatever be it new furniture or bigger TV. How does giving me more money to spend in the local economy not put more money in the economy. Maybe I'm missing something, do explain why it doesn't work.

I'm no economist, but I can tell you that it's not that simple. Historically, benefits like lower taxes and tariffs that benefit big business only widen the gap between rich and poor. The "trickle-down-theory" isn't completely bunk, but it doesn't work in all cases. It's taking away a dollar and giving back a quarter. Just look at the widening gap now between rich and poor. Why keep going down that road? Why not try something with a chance at success?

 

[Dogeman5]

The trickle-down theory does not work

It most certainly does...in theory. In practice, however, it has failed miserably.

Hmmm I shouldn't have said theory (everything works in theory, Especially communism)
And the whole "He chose Palin ploy" made me moderate to very liberal this election
I actually voted for Bush last election, and I might go conservative again but not in the next two years

 

[GCM]

Yay for healthcare! That means, even if you don't have insurance or tons of cash, you WILL get treated at the hospital. That's a sense of security you won't have otherwise unless you're rich, and even then, ouch, the pain of the bill.

Which raises a question; why are US medical bills so high compared to other places? You can make a ton of money if you go to Med school, but it's not like other doctors in other places make less.

Personally, too much individualism is bad. It's just tough trying to figure out all your money for yourself. (Thank Science, I mean God, for financial aid and scholarships!)

 

[SilentHunter7]

You already pay for other people's healthcare. It's called insurance premiums.

And I'd much rather the government decide my healthcare than a bunch of insurance execs in an office skyscraper 200 miles away.

(as opposed to a government exec 200 miles away in a governmental building? lol

Point taken. But at least we can threaten them with voting for the other guy. Some times. Maybe.

I just have a deep-rooted hatred for insurance companies, and their tendency to exploit loopholes to deny a claim, even when a lifelong customer's life is in the balance.

I think in this age of modern medicine, people shouldn't have to worry about their son/daughter/spouse/parent developing a crippling disease, and either becoming indebted for the rest of their life, or be forced to watch them die. All for something that can be fixed with something as trivial as a little piece of green paper with numbers on it.