Partner AI, Let's Get It Right Folks.

Recommended Videos

Riobux

New member
Apr 15, 2009
1,955
0
0
For a long time, we've had partner AIs. While they used to be far and thin, only reserved for games that have a strong team element to it, now it's growing more and more in size. Before 2006, I don't think I could name many partner-based games. Sure there's the Rainbow Six series and SWAT 4 may of been released before 2006, but that's it off the top of my head. It used to be a one-man show where you'd be the star of the show. Behind enemy lines, you were there to wipe out the entire mercenary army using whatever weapons you can find. Now, it's more of a focus of "well, we figured you would need a friend, so here you go". This is when things suddenly got downhill in terms of partner AI.

I will admit that I am comparing Rainbow Six: Vegas to games like say, Army Of Two. In Rainbow Six: Vegas, you have a team of three others. You can tell the team to mount up, you can then tell them to breach. You can tell them to go loud or quiet. It was complex, but yet so simplistic. Army Of Two though, presented problems where there should of been none. The AI depended on you to tell it what to do to survive. This was a similar problem that I've face in Mass Effect, where some team mates will stand in the open and shoot at the enemy or not work out that it's best to not stick your head out when the bad guy is shooting at where you're hiding. However, maybe partner AI isn't as simplistic as "THIS. SHOULD. WORK!"?

On the flip-side, games like Call Of Duty allow you to have your team-mates survive, but to prevent the level just being cleared out if you left the controller on the top for about twenty minutes, you have to move in front of the army like a flag-holder marching in front of his company. Which then leads to the large problem of "why do they need me to point them the way to go? Why do I need to do the work myself and go through the door first? They seem capable right?". This is made worse by, more often than not, not being the leader of the company. Shouldn't the leader go first or maybe have a random selection of which soldier will push on and take a risk that will leave him with a medal when and if he gets home, or will leave him face down in a pool of blood? Since when was there army soldiers especially designed to be point always of the rest of the company?

However, among all the crimes partner AI could commit, some of the worst is ammo and supply wastage. There are a few games that commit this crime like no tomorrow. Resident Evil 5 on my own and Resident Evil: Outbreak turned into a game of inventory juggling similar to the fox-chicken-seed-boat problem. Your inventory will get full, it's undeniable, but it turns into a contest of trying to make sure your partner/s carry any baggage you don't want to use currently and you can't carry yourself, without being able to carry anything they can use. For example, you have to make sure you don't let Mark carry your left-over 9MM rounds on Resident Evil: Outbreak because he has a pistol as his special item which he can and will use all the ammo on any zombies he sees, instead of just dodging past them. Why should this be the case? Why can't AI work out when to use their guns and when to just run past or use melee weapons? I can't help but think too many games have good enemy AI but poor partner AI. This makes the game not only harder, but generally more annoying. Who wants to play baby-sitting for someone who is meant to be an equal of you who is able to use some intelligence to get through the situation.

The previous paragraph turned into an unintentional insult towards Capcom, but a lot of developers do this kind of thing. Army Of Two, both games, was terrible at their AI. Dragon Age: Origins wasn't exactly clever at it's own AI, not being too useful unless you manually adjust their collection of automatic behaviours or actually paused the game, chose what each character should do for them and then unpause. This become very annoying for characters like Morrigan who cast spells instead of melee attacking. I think a lot of games like Left4Dead are trouble-some because they tell you to focus on team-work but with a team that can barely function and feel the need to heal once they're below 60%, you almost wish the game actually allowed you to wonder off and allow the rest of your team to die. It's why in games like Counter Strike, even on the hostage levels, the name of the game is to kill the enemy and not rescue the hostages because you're relying on partner AI to work out how to use a doorway, which for some AI is impossible (which led to a game-breaking bug in Call Of Cthulhu). However, I find it funny that most games that have an element of bad partner AI, the enemy seem to have a better AI than your partner. Which happens more often than it sounds.

Some games don't require sophisticated AI, you don't need to spend months perfecting how a hostage can play follow-the-leader, however some games are complex enough that team-work isn't just important, it's impossible without brains working out what to do instead of algorithms.

Anyway, what do you think about Partner AI in general? Any games that are bright stars at the complex concept of actually intelligent partner artificial intelligence? Do you think more work should be done in development of a game in partner AI in general across the board or is it good enough? Do you think games like Army Of Two and Resident Evil 5 can get away with poor partner AI considering they are designed to have a human partner and a computer partner only needs to function, not work?
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
17,021
0
0
There is good Partner A.I.

I just can't think of it right now...because I haven't seen it yet.

Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway.

Rainbow Six Vegas.
 

Grounogeos

New member
Mar 20, 2009
269
0
0
In my experience, the Rainbow Six series and Battlefield: Bad Company are the only ones who've ever done a good job with partner AI. They can function just fine on their own, and you don't have to babysit them or tell them to breathe every few seconds.
 

DigitalSushi

a gallardo? fine, I'll take it.
Dec 24, 2008
5,717
0
0
KillZone 2 had some fantastic AI, how they operate in battle is marvelous, sometimes you have to get them back on their feet but in general they behave themselves.

What they are like as characters however, good god, very unlikeable.
 

Riobux

New member
Apr 15, 2009
1,955
0
0
ColdStorage said:
KillZone 2 had some fantastic AI, how they operate in battle is marvelous, sometimes you have to get them back on their feet but in general they behave themselves.

What they are like as characters however, good god, very unlikeable.
Honestly, I couldn't bare to play Killzone 2, partly due to how unlikeable the characters were. Sure, there are worse, so much worse (Jericho still holds the crown, cup and all three medals for the worst characters in a game), but they did annoy me a lot; then again I didn't like a lot of that game...
 

Dr. UBAR

New member
Dec 24, 2008
244
0
0
When I played Operation Flashpoint 2 after a few hours i gave up commanding my squad and just told them to follow me/take cover there/shoot him etc. To my surprise they very rarely got shot and when they did it was usually because I tried to be stealthy then walked out on a road.
 

MR.Spartacus

New member
Jul 7, 2009
673
0
0
Grounogeos said:
In my experience, the Rainbow Six series and Battlefield: Bad Company are the only ones who've ever done a good job with partner AI. They can function just fine on their own, and you don't have to babysit them or tell them to breathe every few seconds.
Actually in Bad Company it's not the AI. Its just that your team-mates are invincible. Resistance had good friendly AI. They just couldn't survive enough shots to be really useful.

ColdStorage said:
KillZone 2 had some fantastic AI, how they operate in battle is marvelous, sometimes you have to get them back on their feet but in general they behave themselves.

What they are like as characters however, good god, very unlikeable.
You got luck with 'em then. All they ever did was get shot and cry alot when I played.
 

Glamorgan

Seer of Light
Aug 16, 2009
3,123
0
0
Uncharted 2's was actually quite good in my opinion. The only time that they did something bad was during the second last level, in which I tried to wait out in hiding, so that the guardians and the soldiers would fight it out a bit first, but Elena thought it would be a good idea to reveal where we were, and shoot them. Your dog in Fable 2 was awesome as well.
 

KSarty

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2008
995
0
21
I've noticed some pretty great AI in Dow2, specifically in the Last Stand game mode. The Chaos Sorcerer has the ability to summon doppelgangers of any unit on the field, and those doppelgangers have demonstrated some excellent AI. For instance in one of my matches I had a doppelganger of my Space Marine teammate and not only was it smart enough to utilize it's grenades, jump pack, and dreadnought support but it even broke off in mid fight and revived me at one point in the battle. Granted there is little to no pathfinding involved in Last Stand but I was fairly impressed by it's priorities the liberal use of it's abilities.
 

Hawkeye16

New member
Nov 15, 2009
473
0
0
Gears of War had the best partner AI ev- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA I cant even SAY that with a striaght face! Sorry Dom, but I'm not reviving your ass this time.
 

kurupt87

Fuhuhzucking hellcocks I'm good
Mar 17, 2010
1,437
0
0
AI friendlies is a hot issue, companies are still trying to find out what's best.

FFXIII had very good AI, to the extent that you can leave the game to play itself with little to no instruction from the player. This is bad in my book, a game that can play itself isn't challenging (against time limit bosses this doesn't work). Similarly, in Uncharted 2 your partner is invulnerable, so at any hard point you can hide and let the AI kill everything for you.

I like how the CoD games do friendly AI, most of them are just reskinned and allied-up enemies, being individually killed very easily, but because of numbers they work well. The immortal ones still eat dirt alot while they take their sweet time recovering.

Riobux said:
On the flip-side, games like Call Of Duty allow you to have your team-mates survive, but to prevent the level just being cleared out if you left the controller on the top for about twenty minutes, you have to move in front of the army like a flag-holder marching in front of his company. Which then leads to the large problem of "why do they need me to point them the way to go? Why do I need to do the work myself and go through the door first? They seem capable right?". This is made worse by, more often than not, not being the leader of the company. Shouldn't the leader go first or maybe have a random selection of which soldier will push on and take a risk that will leave him with a medal when and if he gets home, or will leave him face down in a pool of blood? Since when was there army soldiers especially designed to be point always of the rest of the company?
As to the first bolded part, most stories have the player controlled character as supposed to be the best, or at least better than the normal people around him. For the second part, "point man" or "shooter", these are the roles you refer to, and since they have names they are real. A man who is especially good at being the point man will be picked to be point man by the squads sgt or lt, while not fair on him personally, it raises the efficiency and survivability of the squad as a whole.
 

DigitalSushi

a gallardo? fine, I'll take it.
Dec 24, 2008
5,717
0
0
MR.Spartacus said:
You got luck with 'em then. All they ever did was get shot and cry alot when I played.
I played it on hard first time round, they never got in my way.

Riobux said:
ColdStorage said:
KillZone 2 had some fantastic AI, how they operate in battle is marvelous, sometimes you have to get them back on their feet but in general they behave themselves.

What they are like as characters however, good god, very unlikeable.
Honestly, I couldn't bare to play Killzone 2, partly due to how unlikeable the characters were. Sure, there are worse, so much worse (Jericho still holds the crown, cup and all three medals for the worst characters in a game), but they did annoy me a lot; then again I didn't like a lot of that game...
It just goes to show how badly Guerilla Games fucked up on the characters when the final boss is a more likeable character than the guy thats got your back.

I'm talking about Rico, he's a dick.
 

Delusibeta

Reachin' out...
Mar 7, 2010
2,591
0
0
Insert that L4D2 "Daring Bot Rescue" video as a demonstration for all that could go wrong for allied AI.
 

Daniel Armstrong

New member
Feb 21, 2010
209
0
0
How about the 'Total War' series, sure Its not individual AI's but it an AI running the campaign decisions depending on the difficulty and especially how the battle map is played out.
 

Sjakie

New member
Feb 17, 2010
955
0
0
Hmmm, good partner AI? xcept for Rainbow six and resistance 2 i cant think of any. But those only work well enough if you set them up right, you put your guys in position first and the AI takes it from there and does a fairly descent job. Key is: The player needs to set them up right FIRST. If you dont do that, they still fail big time
Dragon age partner AI system works a bit different you can control the behavior of your squad in a fight. Granted, it's still not perfect. But once you set up enough rules and get the hang of it it works out really well. i have had battles with large groups of enemies later in the game on hard difficulty that i just had to watch and see play out after i made a standard set up of rules for them. It might not be perfect, but it's a lot better then most games in which you cant control friendly AI.
Personally i really hate the AI behavior of units in RTS games like C&C. Those always act like a bunch of stupid ducks, walking around into a line and 1 by 1 into ambushes (even when using group management) and never attack the targets which represents the hardest threat. If they added a bigger control scheme for those units, it would be much better.
Basically what i want to say is this: if the developer doesn't make the friendlies AI better, at least give the player the option to control it.
 

Riobux

New member
Apr 15, 2009
1,955
0
0
Sjakie said:
Dragon age partner AI system works a bit different you can control the behavior of your squad in a fight. Granted, it's still not perfect. But once you set up enough rules and get the hang of it it works out really well.
I really don't doubt it, but as picky of a complain this may be and somewhat exaggerated, I don't want to spend a few hours trial-and-erroring different rules.

Delusibeta said:
Insert that L4D2 "Daring Bot Rescue" video as a demonstration for all that could go wrong for allied AI.
I actually laughed my head off at it.

kurupt87 said:
As to the first bolded part, most stories have the player controlled character as supposed to be the best, or at least better than the normal people around him.
This sometimes works, but often it leaves me confused. Why is Chris superior to Sheva (or vice-versa if you're Sheva)? Why is a private first class assigned to directing the way of the entire squad? Why is it you that happens to be the point-man? Especially when it comes to war games, it seems like the character you choose not only has the best luck of surviving the entire war (except once or twice), but also the worst luck being forced to go on point every time and push forward so the rest of the AI will go as well.
 

Flour

New member
Mar 20, 2008
1,868
0
0
ColdStorage said:
It just goes to show how badly Guerilla Games fucked up on the characters when the final boss is a more likeable character than the guy thats got your back.

I'm talking about Rico, he's a dick.
I noticed that too. Hell, at the end of K2, I was actually liking the Space Nazis, especially because I somehow managed to follow the plot as "your guys invaded the planet for resources".(could be the actual plot, don't know, I just play the game to shoot things in possibly the closest thing to Gun Porn since Black)
 

Layz92

New member
May 4, 2009
1,651
0
0
The AI in some of the WW2 Call of Dutys wasn't bad. Not so much AI as following a set path and taking cover when reaching combat or checkpoints. Also Oblivion had excellent AI... no really, true story... OK you got me there I was lieing.