PAX 2010: Torchlight II Hands-On
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Considering the epic failure of so many other d2 like games in the past (even including some worked on by past employees of blizzard) I thought Torchlight did amazingly well. There are certainly many ways it could be improved but compared to the original diablo in scale at least I thought it was quite enjoyable. I still retained many of the fun aspects of D2, had better more current graphics and was much cheaper (also allowed very easy mod support!)
I remember reading that Torchlight 3 may actually be released before Diablo 3 and if that is true, and it does happen, it could allow Runic to seriously gather alot of fans....at least if the game continues to evolve a decent amount through each incarnation.
At the same time there are some negative signs I see as well. If Runic is already working on Torchlight 3, or plans on doing so right away after releasing Torchlight 2, that means there will probably be no expansion pack for the second version that adds more classes etc. In a way to me that is like giving up on a game before you have even released it and saying "It will not be good enough, we need to make another version." before audiences have even had a chance to play it, make comments and suggestions and hopefully want to play it more.
I remember hearing a Torchlight MMO might be in the works as well.....which is interesting. A great way for Torchlight to really blow away Diablo is to increase the multiplayer aspect beyond what D2 could offer. In many ways Torchlight fell short of the game D2 was even before the expansion pack even though it was released so many years later by people who worked on the original. It's a fun game but a casual one while D2 even pre-expansion was basically an addiction for way to many people. No ladders and multiplayer is probably a big part of that but just allowing a drop in/drop out multiplayer mode is not going to solve that problem. I was never a big dueling player but it certainly helped create a D2 economy and helped keep the game current. I think Diablo 2 would still have been an extremely popular game without the expansion but it was, in my opinion, the expansion and later patches that really pushed it over the edge into the realms of unprecedented popularity.
The first Diablo was a great game that I played many times, but I doubt I played it over 200 hours all together. The second game has the title of most played by me and many of my friends over the years and is still played by many even now. I hope Torchlight evolves much like Diablo did and I would rather see a higher price tag then just an updated version of Torchlight with a few minor improvements and multiplayer.
The game needs more diversity between characters, especially if multiplayer is going to be available now. While you could play each character in different ways, they all played extremely similarly. I loved the customization of characters in D2 and created many guides and character builds over the years (more then 20 I'm sure) that was the fun for me. In torchlight there wasn't the same ability to create your own character....and I am certainly not talking about how it looks.
So I agree with an above poster. T2 needs to seriously improve it's skill system, item drop and gem system and hopefully include runes of some type or something that makes you work long term for very powerful items (other then heirlooms). A leveling system of some kind for your pet would be nice or at least some other options besides the spells you add (more along the lines of hirelings in D2 for instance...but honestly why just clone....improve and make pets into a full fledged customizable character as well, with pet skills, stats etc).
Imagine having not only the ability to PvP or battle in an arena, but having the ability to set your pets to fight each other while the players watch. That could be seriously fun. Maybe even include the ability to place small bets on the pets hehe.
Torchlight has great potential because it has already grabbed the attention of a large audience. I hope it uses this opportunity to not just fix many of the complaints about the first game (adding multiplayer, fixing identify/item drops etc) but to surpass D2 in as many ways as possible. I love D2 and have played it to death but it is way past time for another game to take the reigns. Sacred, Titan quest etc have all to a large extent created a similar gameplay (and in many ways superior) to what we saw in Torchlight (although at a higher price tag). Torchlight 2 needs to separate itself from the pack and hopefully blow that tired old game (Decard Cain may actually be younger then some of the initial d2 players now) out of the water.
I remember reading that Torchlight 3 may actually be released before Diablo 3 and if that is true, and it does happen, it could allow Runic to seriously gather alot of fans....at least if the game continues to evolve a decent amount through each incarnation.
At the same time there are some negative signs I see as well. If Runic is already working on Torchlight 3, or plans on doing so right away after releasing Torchlight 2, that means there will probably be no expansion pack for the second version that adds more classes etc. In a way to me that is like giving up on a game before you have even released it and saying "It will not be good enough, we need to make another version." before audiences have even had a chance to play it, make comments and suggestions and hopefully want to play it more.
I remember hearing a Torchlight MMO might be in the works as well.....which is interesting. A great way for Torchlight to really blow away Diablo is to increase the multiplayer aspect beyond what D2 could offer. In many ways Torchlight fell short of the game D2 was even before the expansion pack even though it was released so many years later by people who worked on the original. It's a fun game but a casual one while D2 even pre-expansion was basically an addiction for way to many people. No ladders and multiplayer is probably a big part of that but just allowing a drop in/drop out multiplayer mode is not going to solve that problem. I was never a big dueling player but it certainly helped create a D2 economy and helped keep the game current. I think Diablo 2 would still have been an extremely popular game without the expansion but it was, in my opinion, the expansion and later patches that really pushed it over the edge into the realms of unprecedented popularity.
The first Diablo was a great game that I played many times, but I doubt I played it over 200 hours all together. The second game has the title of most played by me and many of my friends over the years and is still played by many even now. I hope Torchlight evolves much like Diablo did and I would rather see a higher price tag then just an updated version of Torchlight with a few minor improvements and multiplayer.
The game needs more diversity between characters, especially if multiplayer is going to be available now. While you could play each character in different ways, they all played extremely similarly. I loved the customization of characters in D2 and created many guides and character builds over the years (more then 20 I'm sure) that was the fun for me. In torchlight there wasn't the same ability to create your own character....and I am certainly not talking about how it looks.
So I agree with an above poster. T2 needs to seriously improve it's skill system, item drop and gem system and hopefully include runes of some type or something that makes you work long term for very powerful items (other then heirlooms). A leveling system of some kind for your pet would be nice or at least some other options besides the spells you add (more along the lines of hirelings in D2 for instance...but honestly why just clone....improve and make pets into a full fledged customizable character as well, with pet skills, stats etc).
Imagine having not only the ability to PvP or battle in an arena, but having the ability to set your pets to fight each other while the players watch. That could be seriously fun. Maybe even include the ability to place small bets on the pets hehe.
Torchlight has great potential because it has already grabbed the attention of a large audience. I hope it uses this opportunity to not just fix many of the complaints about the first game (adding multiplayer, fixing identify/item drops etc) but to surpass D2 in as many ways as possible. I love D2 and have played it to death but it is way past time for another game to take the reigns. Sacred, Titan quest etc have all to a large extent created a similar gameplay (and in many ways superior) to what we saw in Torchlight (although at a higher price tag). Torchlight 2 needs to separate itself from the pack and hopefully blow that tired old game (Decard Cain may actually be younger then some of the initial d2 players now) out of the water.
Because what if two players mods conflict?VanBasten said:
Or what if you play a custom class not supported by the other players mods?
Or what if someone just uses mods to cheat?
Torchlight was a boring game, but considering the price it was alright. Besides, nobody expected this game to light the world on fire anyway. If they just get rid of the "identifying stuff" gimmick they have going on, I'll certainly have fun with it. That's all I would ask for anyway.
Identifying items isn't Torchlight's gimmick, try looking up the meaning of the word.GeneticallyModifiedDucks said:
OP: It looks nice so far, so as long as they correct the flaws they noticed in 1st game and keep it a cheap (I don't think people would pay 50$ for it) it should do just fine.
OK, gameplay mechanic then. That doesn't change the fact that the game made me run back to town to sell all the items which neede "identifying". I liked how you can use the dog to sell your stuff without running back to town, but without identifying the stuff first you hardly got any gold. And monsters don't drop nearly enough scrolls. So basically I had to go to town myself and buy some scrolls, then identify, then sell... It was a boring chore. If they remove it, I can see myself having fun with Torchlight 2.mexicola said:
I agree the selling can get tedious but that's the "problem" with all diablo clones out there, I mean the whole game revolves around loot grinding. As for the scrolls, well you can easily learn "identify" spell that can save you a ton of id kits.GeneticallyModifiedDucks said:
Which essentially means that modding will be limited to preset player groups and not for any kind of online matching. Hoepfully they'll have a "Turn Off Mods" button to make such play possible for those who want it.VanBasten said:
Also, what would happen if you used mods to beef up a characters gold and gear supply, then immediately switch them off to play them in normal games.
The game is still early in developement, those sort of what ifs are really too hypothetical to discuss right now. However, the developers stated that they don't intend to create an alternative to battle.net, there will be no official ladder, and a cheat free game is not their top priority.ArmorArmadillo said:
Storywise, no, not really.Sartan0 said:
In a nutshell there's a big evil thing and after a bit of spelunking you kill it
They've actually hired a writer for the second one, so I'm sure all the relevant plot points will be recapped.
Gamewise, yes, you'd miss one really good action-RPG.
Especially since the first one is often on sale on Steam for 10$ or even 5$ sometimes, I think it would really be a shame to pass it up at those ridiculously low prices.
I really liked Torchlight for what it was [a Diablo clone]. But imo the biggest thing to ruin Diablo was the multiplayer. The one positive aspect was that with all the hacked out characters you could get speed-levelled or given gear by some bored guy deleting his toons. And then you too could join the masses in the Cow Level or farming Mephisto on Nightmare.
Playing single allowed you to enjoy the game much closer to how the developers had intended I imagine.
Customizing characters is nice though. The biggest thing that stood out to me for Torchlight was the lack of anything to do at the end. At least Diablo had the cow level. Torchlight most of your skills scaled badly, relegating each character to 1 or 2 useful skills. And for all the trouble of actually attaining a full set of armor, they weren't even that useful.
Playing single allowed you to enjoy the game much closer to how the developers had intended I imagine.
Customizing characters is nice though. The biggest thing that stood out to me for Torchlight was the lack of anything to do at the end. At least Diablo had the cow level. Torchlight most of your skills scaled badly, relegating each character to 1 or 2 useful skills. And for all the trouble of actually attaining a full set of armor, they weren't even that useful.
Can't wait for Torchlight 2, I just started playing the first game a few weeks back and I'm loving it.
Everything they've revealed so far sounds great, Torchlight's massive continous dungeon can get a tad claustrophobic at times, so outdoor environments are very welcome.
I love the look of the Railman too.
Everything they've revealed so far sounds great, Torchlight's massive continous dungeon can get a tad claustrophobic at times, so outdoor environments are very welcome.
I love the look of the Railman too.
believe it or not, the lack of multiplayer in Torchlight wasnt my biggest issue with the game. What made me not like it very much is the terrible storyline, lack of customizing mechanics and bad loot system.
Without a decent story, for a game that needs one, will make or brake it...and this game was broken. It was almost non-existant. I didnt have any real drive to keep playing, it was just..really uninteresting. As for the loot system, it felt broken and unfinished. The upgrades occured FAR too often. There was little point in keeping anything because within seconds you would find something better and that to me just made everything i got feel unimportant.
The NPC that sells you armor/weapons always had stuff that was either absolute trash or extremely expensive stuff that you can never afford at the time that your viewing it. which creates an endless loop of never getting what you want from him that was any kind of decent. Thirdly, I thought the characters were kinda boring, maybe that's just me..but they didn't seem all that interesting to me to play. There is no lore behind them, no real story that they can connect to, they are just there for the sake of being there. Like they don't mean anything.
So...really..even IF it had multiplayer..for me at least, it wouldn't have made the game any better. So i sincerely hope that they are doing A LOT of changes in Torchlight 2 before I consider playing it.
Without a decent story, for a game that needs one, will make or brake it...and this game was broken. It was almost non-existant. I didnt have any real drive to keep playing, it was just..really uninteresting. As for the loot system, it felt broken and unfinished. The upgrades occured FAR too often. There was little point in keeping anything because within seconds you would find something better and that to me just made everything i got feel unimportant.
The NPC that sells you armor/weapons always had stuff that was either absolute trash or extremely expensive stuff that you can never afford at the time that your viewing it. which creates an endless loop of never getting what you want from him that was any kind of decent. Thirdly, I thought the characters were kinda boring, maybe that's just me..but they didn't seem all that interesting to me to play. There is no lore behind them, no real story that they can connect to, they are just there for the sake of being there. Like they don't mean anything.
So...really..even IF it had multiplayer..for me at least, it wouldn't have made the game any better. So i sincerely hope that they are doing A LOT of changes in Torchlight 2 before I consider playing it.