PAX Will "Roll For Diversity" Next Year

[Andrew_C]

Nooo, this is what happens when a couple of guys tell bad rape jokes, issue a non-apology, SELL MERCHANDISE BASED ON THE RAPE JOKE and then whine about being oppressed when there is a shit storm over the merchandise and they are forced to remove it.

You say it like jokes that involve rape are inherently bad.
The joke mainly centered around the original dickwolf rather than the act of rape, the use of rape only came in when considering what possible assualts a dick wolf could afflict. It dosen't rationalize rape, its still portrayed as wrong
(even if its part of a comedic skit).
But sure people are entitled to their own opinion of anything and I understand the interpretation of the skit as quite offensive.

However the merchandise wasn't really referential to the skit.
The merchandise (or the one shirt that i found on google, i don't know if there was more) was more a mock of generic team T-Shirts more than anything. Its a particularly openly vulgar incarnation of the generic high school football team jersey.
The Dick Wolves were involved with the original offense, but the place they hold in the shirt is very different to that in the skit.
If the shirt said " we'll rape you to sleep" or even name dropped rape I would understand but as it didn't really have anything to do with Rape except for a character crossover.

While rape jokes cane theoretically be funny that cartoon wasn't. I know that the dickwolves merchandise was themed as sports team merchandise. Hower as all we know about the dickwolves are that the "rape people to sleep" and are apparently made of dicks, according to a drawing by Gabe, it's hard not to make the assumption that the sport involved is rape. While that was probably not their intention, when you make merchandise featuring something whose only characteristic is a propensity to rape, you shouldn't be surprised when people find that offensive.

 

[Brian Tams]

Um... is anyone else getting a separate but equal vibe, or is it just me?

 

[Robert Marrs]

I won't even go into how ridiculous the whole thing is. Offensive on several levels regardless of which demographic you fall into. What I will go into is the thought that maybe these people have never really mingled with the people at conventions or maybe they only hear the complaints. The internet might be a dirty place but that is not exclusive to the gaming community. Literally every single convention I have been to I have met nothing but wonderful caring and accepting people. Aside from a few people who obviously just want to be left alone. I have never witnessed racism, sexism or any other discriminatory behavior at these cons, certainly not in the open. I suppose if you classify "if it could possibly offend someone its discrimination" but I don't buy that. Hate the bring this up but its pretty much necessary. Dickwolves. A silly comic that nobody had a problem with until it hit the feminist blogosphere. Call me crazy but I can't help but feel the controversy from that is somehow influencing this absurd decision.

 

[Robert Marrs]

Personally this is what happens when you get social justice warriors generalizing people who just enjoy the hobby of video games. They have done more damage to the hobby of video games than whatever the government( IE Hillary Clinton in the 1990's) and Jack Thompson could ever dream of doing.

This is also what happens when people give into social pressure as well. I remember these controversies and it was a group that decided to be offended and played the victim to penny arcade's dick wolves. Nevermind the insults that Gabe got from the people who are supposedly on that moral high ground yet have no problem being discriminatory.

Nooo, this is what happens when a couple of guys tell bad rape jokes, issue a non-apology, SELL MERCHANDISE BASED ON THE RAPE JOKE and then whine about being oppressed when there is a shit storm over the merchandise and they are forced to remove it.

You can understand why a lot of people would feel uneasy about attending a convention run by people who think its OK to sell rape-themed merchandise. But it's not the attendees of PAX who need to learn about diversity issues and general common sense, it's Gabe and Tycho.

EDIT Now you can argue that they only made the Dickwolves shirts and banners because people demanded them, but dammit, when people demand that sort of stuff, you don't make it, you make cartoons mocking the idiots who would actually want that.

I am genuinely curious why you seem so up in arms about rape jokes or just rape in general. Of course its bad. Everyone knows its wrong to rape people. I just don't understand why its such an issue to make fun of it, sell merchandise around it, or have it in video games while at the same time literally every single deplorable crime a human can commit is fair game. Why is rape the one thing you consider to be off limits?

 

[KennardKId5]

I don't know where y'all are getting this "modern-day segregation" idea. The report doesn't say a thing about it being restricted to any different group, but that it is just a place for education. I've read articles about rape culture at PAX, and I think that the event organizers have tried to give the benefit of the doubt. However, just like invading a country because terrorists come from there, it may be an overblown response to the issue.

In short, I couldn't care less, but as long as the diversity exhibits are gaming-related, I can't see a problem.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

here's an idea for increasing acceptable diversity.

Just add more characters to things.

Boom. I solved it for you. Excluding people are not necessary. And I lay down MONEY that those Diversity Hubs a.) are there so the "beleaguered white alpha males" can avoid them so they don't have to hear about the D-word any more (quotes for sarcasm... semi) b.) exist to pat themselves on the back that they are actually "making a difference" (quotes for astonishment because I genuinely know that's the sentiment) and c.) will have so little foot traffic that when it fails, PAX can shrug and say 'Hey, we tried, but no one really seemed interested in it'

 

[Robert Marrs]

Personally this is what happens when you get social justice warriors generalizing people who just enjoy the hobby of video games. They have done more damage to the hobby of video games than whatever the government( IE Hillary Clinton in the 1990's) and Jack Thompson could ever dream of doing.

This is also what happens when people give into social pressure as well. I remember these controversies and it was a group that decided to be offended and played the victim to penny arcade's dick wolves. Nevermind the insults that Gabe got from the people who are supposedly on that moral high ground yet have no problem being discriminatory.

Nooo, this is what happens when a couple of guys tell bad rape jokes, issue a non-apology, SELL MERCHANDISE BASED ON THE RAPE JOKE and then whine about being oppressed when there is a shit storm over the merchandise and they are forced to remove it.

You can understand why a lot of people would feel uneasy about attending a convention run by people who think its OK to sell rape-themed merchandise. But it's not the attendees of PAX who need to learn about diversity issues and general common sense, it's Gabe and Tycho.

EDIT Now you can argue that they only made the Dickwolves shirts and banners because people demanded them, but dammit, when people demand that sort of stuff, you don't make it, you make cartoons mocking the idiots who would actually want that.

I am genuinely curious why you seem so up in arms about rape jokes or just rape in general. Of course its bad. Everyone knows its wrong to rape people. I just don't understand why its such an issue to make fun of it, sell merchandise around it, or have it in video games while at the same time literally every single deplorable crime a human can commit is fair game. Why is rape the one thing you consider to be off limits?

First, you are wrong about rape. It is NOT looked down on universally and it is not "just the fringe" of people who are into it. I wish that logical world was our world, and existed, but it TOTALLY DOESN'T. Heck, Roast Busters was a NZ group that promoted raping young girls. It was a popular FB page and a known element in the community. It was a fight just to get Facebook to remove a pro-rape and rape planning page.

So when it comes to rape you need sensitivity and understanding. When it comes to rape jokes you need a tremendous amount of understanding! Because you need to be able to subvert it. Rape jokes fail if they don't denounce the rape in some way, or if the butt of the joke is the victim. Honestly, you are part of the problem if you can't see what the big deal on rape is. You should be able to empathize with people to the point of understanding their fear and pain, one way to do this is imagining if it happened to you. If you had a traumatic, violating experience that nobody will help you with or even believe you, and it starts to ruin all relationships you have and destroy your life, you will have the ability to reference it in a respectful way.

And this is the same with torture or murder, if you were affected by murder in a similar way you might not be cool with caviler murder in games. It's possible to do all this the right way but again, you need some really capable person that can hit all the right points.

Its not treated the same as torture and murder though. My best friends dad has severe ptsd from vietnam. He can't watch war related anything without it triggering him. He has terrible nightmares every night and always sleeps on the couch because he thinks its safer. What he does not do is tell the whole world they can't make jokes about vietnam or war. He does not spend he free time trying to censor other people because of the tragedy he experienced. I feel like society could in fact do with being more sensitive to peoples feelings as a whole but that does not mean demonizing every person who does not share the same sentiment. Rape victims are not special. They are not any more important than any other victim of a traumatic event and should not be treated as such.

Also I don't buy the whole "rape culture" thing for a second as least in the western civilized world. Just like you can find groups that revel in rape you can find the same for cannibalism, murder or child molestation. Any group of weirdos will find other weirdos to congregate with but that does not dismiss societies view of a crime. Even other criminals in prison single out rapists as being worse criminals deserving of extra punishment. When someone is accused of rape they are branded with that for the rest of their lives and it can totally ruin them regardless of whether they were convicted or even guilty in the first place. That does not sound like "rape culture" to me at all. Its like calling gaming as a whole sexist. Just because there is some sexism does not mean it represents gaming as a whole. Now places in the middle east where rape victims can be punished and rape is not just legally but socially acceptable absolutely has a rape culture but this is not present anywhere that I am aware of in the western world.

 

[Stevepinto3]

First thoughts reading this article; Wow this sounds nice, it seems like Penny Arcade is making an effort to reconnect with those that have turned away from them due to recent controversies and generally promote a positive change in the gaming community. Good for them.

First thoughts reading the comments; Oh jeez.

THIS ISN'T SEGREGATION. It's about dedicating a part of PAX towards an increasingly relevant issue in the gaming community. No where does this document say "white guys will be turned away". It would be great if everything were perfectly equal and the discussion of the representation of minorities was unnecessary because we already DID represent them equally, and that no one would be made to feel uncomfortable at cons, but sadly that's not how things are.

The fact is people are made uncomfortable by things like rape jokes, or by the generally overly sexualized depictions of women in gaming, or by derogatory slurs in online gaming. Even if that's not what you personally do or support (and by all accounts I expect it isn't) it's still a disturbingly large portion of the gaming community, and it is actively driving away people that would otherwise like to attend these conventions or even just enjoy some games online.

I don't care if "the rest of the internet does it", that's a fucking cop-out to ignore both intentional bigotry online and the greater cultural issue of poor representation of pretty much anyone but hetero white men. Nor does trying to act like there isn't a culture and community surrounding gaming and thus somehow this isn't a problem, you are on a site that wouldn't exist if that were true. There is nothing wrong with wanting gaming to be better than that.

 

[neoontime]

Um... is anyone else getting a separate but equal vibe, or is it just me?

Nope, as you can see from all the people before you, it's not easy at all to HORRIBLY JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!

OT: Oh GOD! Really escapees, do we really have to confuse inclusiveness with reverse racism?! Just the thought of making an industry less White male focused is so much to get a negative reaction.

Thanks for reminding me the escapist is part of the internets so I should expect to see "responses" like this.

Uhhg, I apologize to the decent people who just held back the stupid remarks or those who said they where completely okay with for grouping you with them. I need a break!

 

[Robert Marrs]

Um... is anyone else getting a separate but equal vibe, or is it just me?

Nope, as you can see from all the people before you, it's not easy at all to HORRIBLY JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!

OT: Oh GOD! Really escapees, do we really have to confuse inclusiveness with reverse racism?! Just the thought of making an industry less White male focused is so much to get a negative reaction.

Thanks for reminding me the escapist is part of the internets so I should expect to see "responses" like this.

Uhhg, I apologize to the decent people who just held back the stupid remarks or those who said they where completely okay with for grouping you with them. I need a break!

Honestly though lets just say you take every person who really games as a hobby. Not including the family that owns a Wii and plays it on the weekends or the guy who plays angry birds on the way home from work but the type of gamers who actually go to these conventions. The people who are out buying the games day one, making videos of them etc who logically would be the people that the industry would focus on. Now take all those people put them in massive field and separate them by race and gender. If the group of white males is significantly larger than all the other groups is it really a bad thing that the industry chooses to focus on that group? I am all for being more inclusive but I don't think its wrong for the industry to focus on its probably well researched majority and I do think its understandable for the people who are happy in that setting to be against change. Going to a place where you are the minority and demanding change because you don't like some of those things they have been doing for years would usually result in people telling you "if you don't like it then fuck off somewhere else" and they would have a right to do it.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

Just wait, next year they're going to ban republicans from participating because they oppose their politically correct ideals...

Maybe they'll set up special "Republican Hubs". These will be safe spaces filled with single malt scotch and cigars, tables piled with books by William F. Buckley and P.G. Wodehouse, and pictures of Reagan on the wall.

Which might get me to go to PAX.

 

[WWmelb]

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves, you are so filled with hate and bile that you jump at anything that might be misconstrued as if it were intentionally malevolent. You didn't even read the dam pamphlet.

Based on what the pamphlet actually said and not on what has been attributed to it second hand:

1. The Diversity Hub is a place to find information about the topics in question, it does not state that anyone covered by the Diversity Hub should congregate there. It even specifically mentions that related panels and booths will be all over the convention and the Hub is a convenient way to find information/times/locations for said panels and booths.

2. The "Enforcers" are just the name for the people who help work the convention. According to the document they have been trained to make the ENTIRE convention a safe zone, not just the hub. Mentioning they will have a presence there is probably to insure that if an incident occurs there is a clear location to find them if needed.

3. It's a place for advocate groups to come together. Absolutely nowhere does it say anything about segregating related booths to this area, just that they made free booth space available for it. It's like they know that small booths that aren't 'mainstream' get lost on the giant floor. I wonder if that's why the Indie Megabooth was formed?

Many of you seem to advocate acceptance by ignorance or if you are aware, simply ignoring them. These issues exist, PAX is saying we want to help remove these issues by discussing and sharing about them. Come here to learn about how they pertain to your favorite hobby.

It's almost like someone related to PAX made a gaff because he was unaware of proper nomenclature, was raked through the coals about it, apologized and came up with a way to make sure other people didn't do the same thing. Apparently that makes you an awful person on the internet.

I'm quoting this just to hopefully get this topic back on track, and because people really seem to need to read this post. This is EXACTLY what i got out of the article, and not some apartheid segregation bullshit that the masses here seem to be finding in this.

just going to requote part of this again in bold because it warrants a third mention

Many of you seem to advocate acceptance by ignorance or if you are aware, simply ignoring them. These issues exist, PAX is saying we want to help remove these issues by discussing and sharing about them. Come here to learn about how they pertain to your favorite hobby.

It's almost like someone related to PAX made a gaff because he was unaware of proper nomenclature, was raked through the coals about it, apologized and came up with a way to make sure other people didn't do the same thing. Apparently that makes you an awful person on the internet.

 

[neoontime]

Um... is anyone else getting a separate but equal vibe, or is it just me?

Nope, as you can see from all the people before you, it's not easy at all to HORRIBLY JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!

OT: Oh GOD! Really escapees, do we really have to confuse inclusiveness with reverse racism?! Just the thought of making an industry less White male focused is so much to get a negative reaction.

Thanks for reminding me the escapist is part of the internets so I should expect to see "responses" like this.

Uhhg, I apologize to the decent people who just held back the stupid remarks or those who said they where completely okay with for grouping you with them. I need a break!

Honestly though lets just say you take every person who really games as a hobby. Not including the family that owns a Wii and plays it on the weekends or the guy who plays angry birds on the way home from work but the type of gamers who actually go to these conventions. The people who are out buying the games day one, making videos of them etc who logically would be the people that the industry would focus on. Now take all those people put them in massive field and separate them by race and gender. If the group of white males is significantly larger than all the other groups is it really a bad thing that the industry chooses to focus on that group? I am all for being more inclusive but I don't think its wrong for the industry to focus on its probably well researched majority and I do think its understandable for the people who are happy in that setting to be against change. Going to a place where you are the minority and demanding change because you don't like some of those things they have been doing for years would usually result in people telling you "if you don't like it then fuck off somewhere else" and they would have a right to do it.

Yeah suppose you're right. I suppose if people want to be included, everyone has the right to be an asshole and as you said, tell them to "fuck off somewhere else". I agree with that of course I understand that people are being assholes but I don't know why. This is an event that is giving the opportunity to include more people, since the industry is the way it is, by offering areas "open to everyone"-so I do not f*cking understand why anyone would confuse this with segregation- that express more than of the culture than the white male dominated aspects. These areas are also from free booth spaces so they're not taking anything else away. I'm upset that people for some reason have really invalid reasons why they are against this, when it is simply an addition that is not primarily of there interest.

 

[WWmelb]

Um... is anyone else getting a separate but equal vibe, or is it just me?

Nope, as you can see from all the people before you, it's not easy at all to HORRIBLY JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!

OT: Oh GOD! Really escapees, do we really have to confuse inclusiveness with reverse racism?! Just the thought of making an industry less White male focused is so much to get a negative reaction.

Thanks for reminding me the escapist is part of the internets so I should expect to see "responses" like this.

Uhhg, I apologize to the decent people who just held back the stupid remarks or those who said they where completely okay with for grouping you with them. I need a break!

Honestly though lets just say you take every person who really games as a hobby. Not including the family that owns a Wii and plays it on the weekends or the guy who plays angry birds on the way home from work but the type of gamers who actually go to these conventions. The people who are out buying the games day one, making videos of them etc who logically would be the people that the industry would focus on. Now take all those people put them in massive field and separate them by race and gender. If the group of white males is significantly larger than all the other groups is it really a bad thing that the industry chooses to focus on that group? I am all for being more inclusive but I don't think its wrong for the industry to focus on its probably well researched majority and I do think its understandable for the people who are happy in that setting to be against change. Going to a place where you are the minority and demanding change because you don't like some of those things they have been doing for years would usually result in people telling you "if you don't like it then fuck off somewhere else" and they would have a right to do it.

Just food for thought though, have you ever thought that the majority may be whitemale BECAUSE that is who most things are made for/catered to?

 

[Robert Marrs]

Um... is anyone else getting a separate but equal vibe, or is it just me?

Nope, as you can see from all the people before you, it's not easy at all to HORRIBLY JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!

OT: Oh GOD! Really escapees, do we really have to confuse inclusiveness with reverse racism?! Just the thought of making an industry less White male focused is so much to get a negative reaction.

Thanks for reminding me the escapist is part of the internets so I should expect to see "responses" like this.

Uhhg, I apologize to the decent people who just held back the stupid remarks or those who said they where completely okay with for grouping you with them. I need a break!

Honestly though lets just say you take every person who really games as a hobby. Not including the family that owns a Wii and plays it on the weekends or the guy who plays angry birds on the way home from work but the type of gamers who actually go to these conventions. The people who are out buying the games day one, making videos of them etc who logically would be the people that the industry would focus on. Now take all those people put them in massive field and separate them by race and gender. If the group of white males is significantly larger than all the other groups is it really a bad thing that the industry chooses to focus on that group? I am all for being more inclusive but I don't think its wrong for the industry to focus on its probably well researched majority and I do think its understandable for the people who are happy in that setting to be against change. Going to a place where you are the minority and demanding change because you don't like some of those things they have been doing for years would usually result in people telling you "if you don't like it then fuck off somewhere else" and they would have a right to do it.

Just food for thought though, have you ever thought that the majority may be whitemale BECAUSE that is who most things are made for/catered to?

I think its more likely that the majority are white male because the majority of the population in areas that games sell the most are made up of white people. Its just math really. You would never see anyone criticize japanese gaming culture for being mostly focused on japanese/asian demographics would you?