Paypal shuts down Xenonauts developer's account

[LookingGlass]

You can see the story on their website [http://www.xenonauts.com/].

As of an hour ago we are having trouble with our Paypal account. I think it's the same issue that Project Zomboid and Minecraft have had in the past regarding pre-orders and Paypal being a bit strange about it; currently our Paypal account has been locked down and closed, so we don't have access to any of the new money coming in or any access to the funds currently in the account. As a result of this, we've temporarily disabled the pre-order page.

Apparently that's their only source of income for the project at the moment, so they might not get to polish it as much as they'd want to. They've said they've got enough to finish the game though (possibly relying on post-release patches to perfect it once they get sales income).

I'm not sure if the issue is that they're selling a pre-order, rather than an actual product, or if Paypal don't trust indie devs to ever actually release the product. Maybe someone remembers something from one of the other cases?

Hopefully this doesn't screw things up for them... Xenonauts looks really promising from what I've seen.

Seems like a dick move to me.

 

[SinisterGehe]

If they can't get their money out. That they have earned with legal sales, isn't that kinda like... illegal? Like if Paypal is going to keep their money locked away, but still in the possession of the bank. (since you don't keep money that you put to a bank, the bank can use but when you want to get it back they pay you...)

So if they can't get their money out, cant they sue Paypal for their actions because..? it is their money.

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

If they can't get their money out. That they have earned with legal sales, isn't that kinda like... illegal? Like if Paypal is going to keep their money locked away, but still in the possession of the bank. (since you don't keep money that you put to a bank, the bank can use but when you want to get it back they pay you...)

So if they can't get their money out, cant they sue Paypal for their actions because..? it is their money.

I don't really know if they where a physical bank yeah I belive that's how it works, but in the US things, well things just break in our legal system when you add that "newfangally inter-tingamabob, the thing with the pictures..."

 

[SinisterGehe]

"newfangally inter-tingamabob, the thing with the pictures..."

Ah what now? I understood everything else in your reply, but that small part. Can you explain what you are trying to say with that?

 

[Smooth Operator]

If they can't get their money out. That they have earned with legal sales, isn't that kinda like... illegal? Like if Paypal is going to keep their money locked away, but still in the possession of the bank. (since you don't keep money that you put to a bank, the bank can use but when you want to get it back they pay you...)

So if they can't get their money out, cant they sue Paypal for their actions because..? it is their money.

They are a private corporation and when using their services you play by their rules, if those rules are broken who knows what sort of hidden fine print comes into play.

You can go and sue them of course but guess who has more money for lawyers...

 

[Neverhoodian]

Dammit, I really hope this is straightened out. I've been anticipating this game for several months now, and I'd hate to see them have to cut corners because PayPal decided to screw them over.

Figures that it's the more faithful X-COM reboot that gets trouble like this, but 2K's version is proceeding without a hitch. Curse you, Murphy's Law!

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

"newfangally inter-tingamabob, the thing with the pictures..."

Ah what now? I understood everything else in your reply, but that small part. Can you explain what you are trying to say with that?

I was making fun of the US congress being incompetent in cyber matters by saying that's what they refer to the internet as, it's a old tired joke yet it still sadly seems kinda apt.

If they can't get their money out. That they have earned with legal sales, isn't that kinda like... illegal? Like if Paypal is going to keep their money locked away, but still in the possession of the bank. (since you don't keep money that you put to a bank, the bank can use but when you want to get it back they pay you...)

So if they can't get their money out, cant they sue Paypal for their actions because..? it is their money.

They are a private corporation and when using their services you play by their rules, if those rules are broken who knows what sort of hidden fine print comes into play.

You can go and sue them of course but guess who has more money for lawyers...

The government, seeing as such a thing at least with real banks quickly tumbles into federal preceding most of the time.

 

[Albino Boo]

If they can't get their money out. That they have earned with legal sales, isn't that kinda like... illegal? Like if Paypal is going to keep their money locked away, but still in the possession of the bank. (since you don't keep money that you put to a bank, the bank can use but when you want to get it back they pay you...)

So if they can't get their money out, cant they sue Paypal for their actions because..? it is their money.

The reason why the account was suspended was because paypal are following the laws introduced, in Europe and North America after 9/11, to stop terrorist organisations moving large sums of money. Subsequently these laws have been strengthened to cover criminal money laundering and tax evasion. If paypal didn't suspend the accounts when they reached the legal limit they would face criminal prosecution. Paypal, by law, have to investigate to see if the transfers are legitimate.

 

[Dandark]

It's a good job we have the ever reliable US to makue sure these evil video games that corrupt our children like that mass effect porn game are also not


TERRORISTS!!!!!!!

 

[Phishfood]

Damn, thats a pain.

Hopefully it will get sorted out promptly, I haven't heard ANY stories of paypal refusing to pay, just of them freezing for an investigation. I've been following this closely, looks fun. I haven't preordered yet on 2 accounts. 1) money and 2) I don't want to wreck the game for myself by playing a buggy incomplete game, which I will be VERY tempted to do if I preorder.

(For those that don't know - pre-orders also are beta testers)

 

[Funkysandwich]

If they can't get their money out. That they have earned with legal sales, isn't that kinda like... illegal? Like if Paypal is going to keep their money locked away, but still in the possession of the bank. (since you don't keep money that you put to a bank, the bank can use but when you want to get it back they pay you...)

So if they can't get their money out, cant they sue Paypal for their actions because..? it is their money.

The reason why the account was suspended was because paypal are following the laws introduced, in Europe and North America after 9/11, to stop terrorist organisations moving large sums of money. Subsequently these laws have been strengthened to cover criminal money laundering and tax evasion. If paypal didn't suspend the accounts when they reached the legal limit they would face criminal prosecution. Paypal, by law, have to investigate to see if the transfers are legitimate.

Surely they can do this by checking the finacial records of the developers and verfying where the money is going. Since they are a real company that presumably owns things like trademarks and such, this shouldn't be hard to see that they are above board. It should be easier for honest people to do business in the day and age.

Bullshit like this probably doesn't stop terrorism anyway.

 

[Albino Boo]

Surely they can do this by checking the finacial records of the developers and verfying where the money is going. Since they are a real company that presumably owns things like trademarks and such, this shouldn't be hard to see that they are above board. It should be easier for honest people to do business in the day and age.

Bullshit like this probably doesn't stop terrorism anyway.

Why do think they have suspended the account? They are checking the records, they did the same with Mojang and his account was suspended until he formed a company. Paypal have 232 million and they don't investigate every account but only ones the breach the limits legally set down. Mojang had over $1 million dollars moved through his account with no evidence of paying tax at any point. I don't think its unreasonable to investigative potential tax evasion to the tune of $250000 dollars

 

[Funkysandwich]

Surely they can do this by checking the finacial records of the developers and verfying where the money is going. Since they are a real company that presumably owns things like trademarks and such, this shouldn't be hard to see that they are above board. It should be easier for honest people to do business in the day and age.

Bullshit like this probably doesn't stop terrorism anyway.

Why do think they have suspended the account? They are checking the records, they did the same with Mojang and his account was suspended until he formed a company. Paypal have 232 million and they don't investigate every account but only ones the breach the limits legally set down. Mojang had over $1 million dollars moved through his account with no evidence of paying tax at any point. I don't think its unreasonable to investigative potential tax evasion to the tune of $250000 dollars

According to the website of the developer, they are just going to sit on the money for 180 days and do nothing, then let them access it after that.

 

[Agayek]

Ah what now? I understood everything else in your reply, but that small part. Can you explain what you are trying to say with that?

Basically the internet. The US government is notoriously bad at adapting to the cyber world. Most of our lawmakers seem convinced most people use typewriters, and the really rich dudes get by with a Commodore 64. It's really rather pathetic, but there's no way to fix it bar the people getting their act together and voting outside party lines, which just isn't going to happen.

On topic, that's a bit of a dick move on PayPal's part. It makes sense, but it shouldn't take 6 months to investigate. This is the kind of thing that really should be verifiable within a few days, a month tops.

 

[Albino Boo]

According to the website of the developer, they are just going to sit on the money for 180 days and do nothing, then let them access it after that.

Yeah I'm sure they are going to admit to being under investigation for tax fraud and money laundering on their own website. Financial investigations always help to boost sales.

 

[Funkysandwich]

According to the website of the developer, they are just going to sit on the money for 180 days and do nothing, then let them access it after that.

Yeah I'm sure they are going to admit to being under investigation for tax fraud and money laundering on their own website. Financial investigations always help to boost sales.

Because that's totally what all Indie developers are doing.

 

[Albino Boo]

According to the website of the developer, they are just going to sit on the money for 180 days and do nothing, then let them access it after that.

Yeah I'm sure they are going to admit to being under investigation for tax fraud and money laundering on their own website. Financial investigations always help to boost sales.

Because that's totally what all Indie developers are doing.

I'm going to right this simply for the hard of thinking. PAYPAL by law, in common with all other companies, have to prove that that they are not facilitating criminal activities. There responsibility include
assessing the risk of the business being used by criminals to launder money
checking the identity of your customers
checking the identity of 'beneficial owners' of corporate bodies and partnerships
monitoring customers' business activities and reporting anything suspicious to the relevant financial authority
making sure you have the necessary management control systems in place
keeping all documents that relate to financial transactions, the identity of your customers, risk assessment and management procedures and processes

If they fail to do any of these they WILL be prosecuted not just in one jurisdiction but multiple ones. So not only do they have to ask ANY company that has significant transactions for the relevant documents they also have to check to see if those documents are real with the relevant financial authority. This has SOD ALL to with the fact the its Indie developers are getting caught. IF you used you brain for 5 seconds you might have worked out the the housewife selling home made knitwear jumpers on Ebay getting their account suspended isn't going to be reported on a gaming website. Paypal are simply following the law, if you don't like it, tough.