PC Gamer: Every Version of Lara, Ranked by Lara-ness

happyninja42

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Like Max "Woe Is Me" Payne in Max Does Brazil.
Ok that almost made me choke on my coffee. xD

And I mostly agree about new Lara, though her performance didn't bother me, the lines they had her say certainly did. Hence my issue with the writing.
No issue with her design personally, but to each their own.
 

Gordon_4

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I liked them both to be perfectly honest. Old Lara is a classic, pulp adventure and two fisted tale heroine with sass and style, and in an odd way I find new Lara's determination in the face almost Greek Gods level of petty cosmic punishment sent her way endearing. Maybe tone down the panting, and bring Sam back you heartless bastards.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Anniversary.

I hated the new Lara Laura too. I'd kill for a classic Tomb Raider with that old sense of peaceful isolation and tight puzzle platforming improved by the advancements and polish of the last twenty years of gaming. I'd prefer almost no talking or cutscenes, much like Lara Croft GO. A stylized sort of fantasy reality with maybe one third the budget of Shadow of the Tomb Raider.

I hope SOME kind of change is in order after Shadow's underperformance.

The problem with these days is that since technology is advancing so much, and people are in love with graphics and more importantly being told a story, then that’s what’s going to win out 99% of the time. Since most developers can’t orchestrate a good story yet in this medium, we end up with the melodramatic, cheesy crap in TR 2015.

Also, they decided to pull from Uncharted in terms of shooting action, only made worse by littering the screen with stupid “X 500 BONUS KILL MULTIPLIER!!!” garbage to accompany Lara mowing down hordes of goons, thus further ruining any dramatic narrative impact they were going for.
 
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BrawlMan

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The problem with these days is that since technology is advancing so much, and people are in love with graphics and more importantly being told a story, then that’s what’s going to win out 99% of the time. Since most developers can’t orchestrate a good story yet in this medium, we end up with the melodramatic, cheesy crap in TR 2015.

Also, they decided to pull from Uncharted in terms of shooting action, only made worse by littering the screen with stupid “X 500 BONUS KILL MULTIPLIER!!!” garbage to accompany Lara mowing down hordes of goons, thus further ruining any dramatic narrative impact they were going for.
You just summed up most of this guy's issues with he had with it back in 2013.

 
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Ezekiel

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The problem with these days is that since technology is advancing so much, and people are in love with graphics and more importantly being told a story, then that’s what’s going to win out 99% of the time. Since most developers can’t orchestrate a good story yet in this medium, we end up with the melodramatic, cheesy crap in TR 2015.

Also, they decided to pull from Uncharted in terms of shooting action, only made worse by littering the screen with stupid “X 500 BONUS KILL MULTIPLIER!!!” garbage to accompany Lara mowing down hordes of goons, thus further ruining any dramatic narrative impact they were going for.
I kind of doubt players care as much about graphics and cinematic in your face stories as the AAA publishers believe. Look at Minecraft. Or all those hugely successful Nintendo games. Or good indies. Or the Souls games, which were never praised for their graphics and whose stories are more optional (meaning the player can almost completely ignore all of it), yet have rather big (not huge) followings. If it's fun and the tasks are engaging, people will play it. Tomb Raider was never small enough to be indie, but I think it could fit very well between indie and AAA. Not having a huge budget means they could focus more on the things that make Tomb Raider special and market it towards a smaller audience that enjoys exploration and puzzle platforming.

All the story Tomb Raider needs are (1) the treasure, (2) the crooked organization that wants it and (3) the treasure hunter. She (3) barely even needs to talk to the bad guys (2). The player can figure out most of the story from what is going on in the environment and occasional brief cutscenes or special events. Tell the story kind of like Inside or Little Nightmares and people will even praise it for being minimalist but engaging.
 

happyninja42

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All the story Tomb Raider needs are (1) the treasure, (2) the crooked organization that wants it and (3) the treasure hunter. She (3) barely even needs to talk to the bad guys (2). The player can figure out most of the story from what is going on in the environment and occasional brief cutscenes or special events. Tell the story kind of like Inside or Little Nightmares and people will even praise it for being minimalist but engaging.
Eh, I dunno. I mean, you've basically just described the format for the old TR games, and I never found them all that engaging, mostly because they were fairly shallow on story and engagement. So if they just do more of that, they certainly won't win me over as a new player. Granted, it might engage more of the franchise old hats, but the reality is that franchises have to draw in new players to remain viable. And the reboot's premise, at least in theory, is what actually got my attention. A more dramatic, narrative oriented take on the character, who I only knew for being famous for big tits and guns. I played a couple of the old games, and there just wasn't any draw for me. Now, the reboot failed to actually TELL a compelling story in my opinion, but I don't fault them for taking the franchise in that direction. Aside from intentional retro goals with a game, I think more people today, actually want something more engaging with their games. It does still have to actually structure well, which is the reboot's biggest failing, in my opinion.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I kind of doubt players care as much about graphics and cinematic in your face stories as the AAA publishers believe. Look at Minecraft. Or all those hugely successful Nintendo games. Or good indies. Or the Souls games, which were never praised for their graphics and whose stories are more optional (meaning the player can almost completely ignore all of it), yet have rather big (not huge) followings. If it's fun and the tasks are engaging, people will play it. Tomb Raider was never small enough to be indie, but I think it could fit very well between indie and AAA. Not having a huge budget means they could focus more on the things that make Tomb Raider special and market it towards a smaller audience that enjoys exploration and puzzle platforming.

All the story Tomb Raider needs are (1) the treasure, (2) the crooked organization that wants it and (3) the treasure hunter. She (3) barely even needs to talk to the bad guys (2). The player can figure out most of the story from what is going on in the environment and occasional brief cutscenes or special events. Tell the story kind of like Inside or Little Nightmares and people will even praise it for being minimalist but engaging.

It would be worth a try, especially considering TR’s origins go far enough back that what I mentioned shouldn’t really matter to actual fans. It’s when they try to draw a larger, more inclusive crowd that they feel they need to play it safe with the generic, flashier design and cinematic aspects. But at some point they (Square or whoever the publisher is now) have to start wondering, how well has that really been working out for them?
 

Ezekiel

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It would be worth a try, especially considering TR’s origins go far enough back that what I mentioned shouldn’t really matter to actual fans. It’s when they try to draw a larger, more inclusive crowd that they feel they need to play it safe with the generic, flashier design and cinematic aspects. But at some point they (Square or whoever the publisher is now) have to start wondering, how well has that really been working out for them?
What games are you referring to? Underworld? Underworld was mediocre. That's why it didn't sell that well. Legend was one of the best selling Tomb Raiders ever up to that point. I know that game is a little more on the story and cinematic side, with more radio conversations too, but there aren't other modern examples. Except Anniversary, which curiously sold poorly. Maybe people just didn't understand what it was. But anyway, I don't think that have been enough good classic Tomb Raider games in this century for SquareEnix to make that determination.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Ok that almost made me choke on my coffee. xD

And I mostly agree about new Lara, though her performance didn't bother me, the lines they had her say certainly did. Hence my issue with the writing.
No issue with her design personally, but to each their own.
Nothing against the design per se but there's nothing authentically "Lara" about her either. Once you remove the shorts, the shades, the ponytail, the pistolsl and the double-ds she could be anybody. It's like rebooting James Bond or Indiana Jones by getting rid of Bond's accent & tux or Indy's whip & hat. Worse still since all Lara ever had were her physical/cosmetic attributes but no real personality underneath. And the reboot's idea of having her be a weary sadsack didn't do it for me.
 

CriticalGaming

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Worse still since all Lara ever had were her physical/cosmetic attributes but no real personality underneath
I don't think you played the original tomb raiders. Lara had plenty of personality, the ps1 games were just limited. Even still she was a smart, funny, charismatic character for what they could do back in the day. The new Lara's personality became a bit shit, and definitely don't do the original character any justice.

The reason why I still like the reboot lara the best though, is that I like her design better (she's more of a real person versus looking like a comic book character) and I found the reboot games a lot more fun.

Though let's all be honest here, none of the tomb Raider games were ever GOTY level games. B-tier games with B movie campiness.
 
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happyninja42

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Nothing against the design per se but there's nothing authentically "Lara" about her either. Once you remove the shorts, the shades, the ponytail, the pistolsl and the double-ds she could be anybody. It's like rebooting James Bond or Indiana Jones by getting rid of Bond's accent & tux or Indy's whip & hat. Worse still since all Lara ever had were her physical/cosmetic attributes but no real personality underneath. And the reboot's idea of having her be a weary sadsack didn't do it for me.
*shrugs* I just...don't really feel that attached to a pair of low polygon tits and a featureless face? Like, I played I think maybe 2 of the original games, and had zero connection to lara at all. The only thing I remember is them going out of there way to give her reasons to be sexy. Like doing a handstand before diving off a ledge, even through there is no reason to do that. Or her massive tits, and little boy shorts. It was just so obvious to be fanservice, and that's not enough to keep me giving you money. So personally, I don't really care that they took away the barbie doll caliber dress up components of her look, and made her look like a real person. Again, tastes and preferences vary, and that's fine, but I don't really care about massive tits and double guns in a video game. I have porn if I want tits (better rendered ones at that), and guns, well, the game's got guns.

I mean you even acknowledge OG lara had nothing but cosmetics, so is there really anything being lost? I mean, are you really that attached to a bland, emotionless pair of tits and pistols? *shrugs* Just seems like a strange point to hang on when talking about a reboot. They made her a person at least. Not a very well written person, granted, but I have more empathy for new lara than Grave Robber Barbie and her pistol action set.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I don't think you played the original tomb raiders. Lara had plenty of personality, the ps1 games were just limited. Even still she was a smart, funny, charismatic character for what they could do back in the day. The new Lara's personality became a bit shit, and definitely don't do the original character any justice.

The reason why I still like the reboot lara the best though, is that I like her design better (she's more of a real person versus looking like a comic book character) and I found the reboot games a lot more fun.

Though let's all be honest here, none of the tomb Raider games were ever GOTY level games. B-tier games with B movie campiness.
I've played 3 or 4 of the original TR and the most personality I ever saw from Lara was the scene at the theater balcony (don't even remember which game that was). The new games are fun, but Lara isn't and the character actively works against it. I concede the general storyline is grim enough that it doesn't cut her much slack but it doesn't stop me from resenting the character.
 

BrawlMan

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I don't think you played the original tomb raiders. Lara had plenty of personality, the ps1 games were just limited. Even still she was a smart, funny, charismatic character for what they could do back in the day. The new Lara's personality became a bit shit, and definitely don't do the original character any justice.

The reason why I still like the reboot lara the best though, is that I like her design better (she's more of a real person versus looking like a comic book character) and I found the reboot games a lot more fun.

Though let's all be honest here, none of the tomb Raider games were ever GOTY level games. B-tier games with B movie campiness.
Nothing against the design per se but there's nothing authentically "Lara" about her either. Once you remove the shorts, the shades, the ponytail, the pistolsl and the double-ds she could be anybody. It's like rebooting James Bond or Indiana Jones by getting rid of Bond's accent & tux or Indy's whip & hat. Worse still since all Lara ever had were her physical/cosmetic attributes but no real personality underneath. And the reboot's idea of having her be a weary sadsack didn't do it for me.

Lara was always British female, Indiana Jones with more snark. It's not a mark against classic Lara, but that is the truth. Before Uncharted, they were the best Indiana Jones games than the official licensed games. They were pulpy, action games that were all about the fun. Like said before, I was never that in to Lara or TB, but had an ex-friend that was a huge fan of the games. I don't know if he is now, because I have not seen in years. Point being, the next reboot/remake/whatever of Laura should have proper balance in her personality. Not the sad sack in newer games, nor the sociopath they turned Lara in to in some of the later games in the Classic Timeline.

Also, whoever mentioned, even the original team got sick of the og TB games (and did not know what to do with Lara), because Eidos could not keep sticking their dicks in everyone's ear. The fact that Eidos wanted a new game every year, was not helping and burned out the developers at CORE. Eidos never learned a damn thing, did the same with Crystal Dynamics until Squeenix bought them out.
 

Ezekiel

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It would be worth a try, especially considering TR’s origins go far enough back that what I mentioned shouldn’t really matter to actual fans. It’s when they try to draw a larger, more inclusive crowd that they feel they need to play it safe with the generic, flashier design and cinematic aspects. But at some point they (Square or whoever the publisher is now) have to start wondering, how well has that really been working out for them?
Oh shit, I realized I completely misunderstood the last part of what you were saying. They have to ask themselves how well trying to go big and mainstream has worked out for them. Yes, I agree. Ignore my last response.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Oh shit, I realized I completely misunderstood the last part of what you were saying. They have to ask themselves how well trying to go big and mainstream has worked out for them. Yes, I agree. Ignore my last response.
I think the classic games were a mixed bag, but the reboot definitely spelled a shift in their focus. I’d be ok with a greater focus on story if it meant eliminating 90% of the combat and cheap “survival” mechanics (ie upgrades and incremental improvements to a bunch of bs gear and stats) and replacing it with good exploring and platforming built in Anniversary’s, but more nuanced.