PC Gaming: Could The Industry Survive Without DRM?

[Starbird]

Now note, I'm not admitting to any sort of piracy here. But - you know, sometimes I do understand why people do it.

Due to my fairly low salary and trying to save money for my masters, I tend to regard gaming purchases with a fair bit of care these days and don't want to waste money if I can help it.

Which is a problem. And kind of always has been. I mean we have demos for some games, but often these are carefully selected to show the game in the best light possible and may not even be fully representative of the final game (I still remember the Kingpin demo on PC).

This puts me in an awkward position. I can either risk spending my hard earned money on a game I don't like, or find some way of seeing what the game is like before buying it - generally via reviews or watching people play it on Youtube.

Neither of these work well - reviews tend to be subjective and I've often found myself disliking well reviewed games (Far Cry 3, Dragon Age 2) or enjoying ones that got mediocre reviews (Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 3). And watching people play it tends to ruin the game for me by spoiling the hell out of it.

It's...a rough scenario.

On top of this, DRM always tends to be a tricky thing. These days not only do I have to install a game but I also have to install bloatware like Origin that I really don't have any interest in using and make accounts just to play my game.

And then it gets even worse when DRM causes issues with the game or PCs in general, or there are issues with login servers meaning that even a solo, offline game can be unplayable.

It's very annoying.

And then you hear about stuff like http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138664-11-Bit-Studios-Handles-Piracy-of-This-War-of-Mine-with-Free-Copies or the Witcher series which has done very well for itself without any sort of DRM whatsoever and I get thinking...

What would happen if we did away with DRM completely? Would everyone just pirate everything? Would people still buy games? What could companies do to make people want to buy their games without DRM?

 

[CrazyBlaze]

It would be fine. Most games are already cracked and ready for pirates within a couple of days of release. Hell sometimes even earlier (I think I saw Far Cry 4 up almost a week before its release, though I question the legitimacy of those). The only DRM out right now that is doing any good is the one in Fifa 15, Lords of the Fallen and DA:I, but given time even that will be broken. Most publishers get up in arms about lost sales but the truth is that it takes very little effort for people to crack games and then distribute them. In fact sometimes it even hurts the game. When The Witcher 2 was release there were two versions out, one with DRM and one without. Guess which one ran better?

Also why do people continue to hate Origins? Its just Steam for EA. Yeah it sucks to have multiple distrubition platforms but its gotten a lot better than when it first came out.

 

[Starbird]

It would be fine. Most games are already cracked and ready for pirates within a couple of days of release. Hell sometimes even earlier (I think I saw Far Cry 4 up almost a week before its release, though I question the legitimacy of those). The only DRM out right now that is doing any good is the one in Fifa 15, Lords of the Fallen and DA:I, but given time even that will be broken. Most publishers get up in arms about lost sales but the truth is that it takes very little effort for people to crack games and then distribute them. In fact sometimes it even hurts the game. When The Witcher 2 was release there were two versions out, one with DRM and one without. Guess which one ran better?

Also why do people continue to hate Origins? Its just Steam for EA. Yeah it sucks to have multiple distrubition platforms but its gotten a lot better than when it first came out.

It's not so much an issue with Origins as an issue with being forced to install a program (and be advertised at) just to play a game I've already bought.

I actually make a point of buying a copy of mainstream games without DRM (provided I have an interest in them) on principle.

I just wish there was some reliable 'try before buy' system. Like...play for 6 hours, then either buy or game is locked.

 

[CrazyBlaze]

It would be fine. Most games are already cracked and ready for pirates within a couple of days of release. Hell sometimes even earlier (I think I saw Far Cry 4 up almost a week before its release, though I question the legitimacy of those). The only DRM out right now that is doing any good is the one in Fifa 15, Lords of the Fallen and DA:I, but given time even that will be broken. Most publishers get up in arms about lost sales but the truth is that it takes very little effort for people to crack games and then distribute them. In fact sometimes it even hurts the game. When The Witcher 2 was release there were two versions out, one with DRM and one without. Guess which one ran better?

Also why do people continue to hate Origins? Its just Steam for EA. Yeah it sucks to have multiple distrubition platforms but its gotten a lot better than when it first came out.

It's not so much an issue with Origins as an issue with being forced to install a program (and be advertised at) just to play a game I've already bought.

I actually make a point of buying a copy of mainstream games without DRM (provided I have an interest in them) on principle.

I just wish there was some reliable 'try before buy' system. Like...play for 6 hours, then either buy or game is locked.

EA has a return policy that allows you to return the games 24 hours after you launch it, or seven days after you buy it.

 

[Starbird]

EA has a return policy that allows you to return the games 24 hours after you launch it, or seven days after you buy it.

This works okay in theory but I've tried returning games before and even if I manage to do it, it tends to be a gigantic hassle. It's even more obnoxious now that I live in ultra rural Japan and can only really buy stuff off Amazon (and credit cards are almost impossible to get as a foreigner :|).

It reminds me of when I first bought Half Life 2. Game did not specify that you needed an internet connection to play single player, and I had all kinds of fun when I got home...back then we had a barely functioning dial up connection at home

 

[Jiggle Counter]

Remember the DRM used in the DOS game days? Or early 90's PC gaming, where all that was required was a serial number and the game's CD in the CD-ROM to play? Those were awesome.

I don't remember there ever being a PC gaming industry collapse during those years. But then again, pirates needed to get off their arse and make friends to get their free games. Torrenting and cracks weren't as widespread as they are now.

I honestly think the gaming industry will ALWAYS survive as games are not some kind of physically made THING like a sheet of metal or a seasonal fruit. You just construct it ONCE out of thin air, make digital replicas over and over again, and then sell each copy.

I bet that IF 70% of the entire world pirated, the 30% left of paying customers would still make gaming companies billions in profits.

 

[Pink Gregory]

I reckon people are a lot more conscious of the fact that paying for stuff is generally good than ever; with deep discount sales being so rampant, people *do* generally pay for stuff, even if only at a discount, leaving the less backlog inclined (sales leads to a backlog, that's not a fact, but it's close to one) to pay full price if they want something right away, which generally balances out the income.

That being said, I feel like piracy mostly occurs in the case of AAA or larger budget games, regardless of DRM - possibly because they're the most sought-after, the most prohibitively expensive, and the most high profile games out there; with the developers often seeming like a huge impersonal mass - in the case of places like Ubisoft and their 90 minute credits list.

Those are all potential reasons to pirate, and coupled with the massive budget meaning massive expenditure meaning a need for massive returns, of course these larger publishers with high profile games are going to be in favour or DRM because it's generally an unprofitable model. Anything else usually does ok without.

Be interesting to see what would happen to Steam if, in removing the DRM, the client would become optional; but would that do away with exclusivity to a platform?

 

[Keoul]

GoG is still going so I'm gunna say yes.

And no, people wouldn't start pirating like hell because there are incentives for buying a legit copy. For a single-player game you could have free dlc, I'm pretty sure they're even doing it now since when I go out to buy physical copies of games I get some DLC codes along with it which is nice.

As for multiplayer games people will want to buy the legit copy just for the convenience so that they don't have to jump through hoops to get it working.

Sure pirating would still exist but if you have enough incentives, it'll be more effective than DRM.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

The industry would be fine.
I'm in a similar situation wherein every penny is important and I can't really be spending money on games I don't like.
For example, IF I wanted to play Shadow Of Mordor, I COULD spend ?50 (EDIT: ?60 retail, apparently, thats more than my weeks foid shopping budget) on it or whatever. OR I could download for free and try it out to see if its good. By doing this, I may well find out that I ended up spending more time downloading it (terrible net connection and 34gig game) than playing it.

Thankfully, this hypothetical and not at all true situation might save me 50 bucks, which I can then use on games I actually enjoy (like buying the PC release of Valkyria Chronicles even tho I already own the PS3 version).

I don't know anyone who pirates ALL of their games. Actually, when I bought my gaming PC, I bought the PC version of a lot of games I already owned.

For a single-player game you could have free dlc, I'm pretty sure they're even doing it now since when I go out to buy physical copies of games I get some DLC codes along with it which is nice.

Actually, because On Disc DLC is a thing now, a lot of pirated versions of games unlock all the DLC along with the crack. So pirates actually get the DLC before the people who pay for the game.

Its backwards as fuck, but hey, gaming companies wouldn't spend thousands on something that wasn't dumb, right?

 

[The Lunatic]

Given most DRM has proved ineffective at stopping piracy, there may as well not be any DRM.

Some people are always going to pirate games. It's an unfortunate fact.

I guess more than punishing people, we should instead be educating and trusting consumers. I don't buy games from companies with overbearing DRM, and companies who I feel respect me as a consumer are much more likely to get my service.

Whilst I don't condone or engage in piracy, a lot of people do for that reason.

 

[Lilani]

It would be fine. With or without DRM, the people who are going to pirate games will pirate them, and the ones which are more apt to buying games will buy them. The only difference DRM makes is how much you want to inconvenience your paying customers along the way, which HAS proven to be a very strong deterrent...to buying legitimately.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I highly doubt it would make much difference.

DRM isn't all that effective, because pirates can leach off the works of some insane geniuses that crack DRM just for fun (or challenge).

On top of that, DRM costs money to implement. It adds extra code and potential bugs that need checking, or you have to pay a licence for an existing system (which can also create bugs)...

Basically, DRM exists mostly because of paranoia and certain groups being control freaks who can't deal with the idea of people not doing exactly what they are told with something.

I highly doubt removing it would matter much, realistically. It's just something some groups cling to because they're scared.

 

[Jesterscup]

Christ, it's a bit silly that this idea that "piracy is a problem" still hangs on, when it's obviously not true in the slightest. I don't think you can point to any product ever made that did poorly (that is to say, made less money than it cost to produce and market) only due to piracy. Yes, piracy isn't a thing you should be doing, and it is a form of theft (not outright theft, since there's a bunch of people who pirate game they wouldn't have bought anyway) and using it for something else than a demo isn't really morally justifiable, but a problem?

There is really REALLY good evidence to suggest that piracy is directly related to the ease of being able to obtain a product. As soon as it was easier to buy music online ( itunes ), and manage your purchase across devices, piracy drops off ( though never disappears ). I have no doubt that steam reduced piracy on PC no end ( though those developer-platform versions made/make it worse ). making something easier/harder to pirate? no effect at all. None. zero. zilch. nada. zip

DRM is an annoyance, it's not part of the problem, but it's not part of the solution either. Yes it results in a minority of customers not buying a product on principle, but not enough to make it commercially unviable. neither does it reduce piracy. What it does doe is allow a little corporate governance, I have little doubt that always-on and DRM are simply 'diligence' based commercial choices, made to satisfy some executives whim.

Though I would like to make a point. in the UK we hear a LOT about "illegal downloads" , this is an incredibly tenuous term, and an insidious one. It's an attempt to package piracy up with a bunch of other stuff we ( here in the UK ) actually have a right to.

An example:
I own a CD ( Pink Floyds dark side of the moon ), now I must've bought this 5 times over in various formats, and you know I don't mind, I like 'things', it's a thing I like, now I want to put this on my phone, I can buy it again on a music store, or I can rip it myself with no legal ramifications. If I bypass the 'ripping it myself' stage and download a ripped version, it can be legally argued that I've broken no law, that I'm merely producing a legal copy of material I have a right to copy in a slightly different manner.
- NOTE this may be different in the states now, but in the UK it's a test in law thats not been tested as yet, mainly as most believe that such a legal case would be in favour of the content owner.

Also it's starting to get besides the point now, how long do you think it'll be until we have functional netflix/spotify-style online gaming services. I know they already exist, but not at the same level of commercial operation as netflix yet.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

Competing with pirates is all about convenience, recent history shows us that customers will happily buy your stuff if it's quick, easy and functionally sound.

DRM only keeps check on legitimate users, since pirated copies have it removed, and is often a hassle to deal with.
In that case, it is actually preferable for the consumer to get a pirated copy, since his pirate buddies offer a more convenient service and a more functional product, restrictive DRM plays right into their hands.

Valve understands this, Steam is both DRM and a distribution platform but manages to not bother the player with 24 hour checkups or an internet connection requirement to save your games or even access them, it has an offline function and no "dead" torrents for the customer to dig through to download his game onto his machine, convenience wins out.

CAPTCHA: dollar bill

If we allowed larger captcha checks, would it actually participate in discussion?

 

[Starbird]

Christ, it's a bit silly that this idea that "piracy is a problem" still hangs on, when it's obviously not true in the slightest. I don't think you can point to any product ever made that did poorly (that is to say, made less money than it cost to produce and market) only due to piracy. Yes, piracy isn't a thing you should be doing, and it is a form of theft (not outright theft, since there's a bunch of people who pirate game they wouldn't have bought anyway) and using it for something else than a demo isn't really morally justifiable, but a problem?

There is really REALLY good evidence to suggest that piracy is directly related to the ease of being able to obtain a product. As soon as it was easier to buy music online ( itunes ), and manage your purchase across devices, piracy drops off ( though never disappears ). I have no doubt that steam reduced piracy on PC no end ( though those developer-platform versions made/make it worse ). making something easier/harder to pirate? no effect at all. None. zero. zilch. nada. zip

DRM is an annoyance, it's not part of the problem, but it's not part of the solution either. Yes it results in a minority of customers not buying a product on principle, but not enough to make it commercially unviable. neither does it reduce piracy. What it does doe is allow a little corporate governance, I have little doubt that always-on and DRM are simply 'diligence' based commercial choices, made to satisfy some executives whim.

Though I would like to make a point. in the UK we hear a LOT about "illegal downloads" , this is an incredibly tenuous term, and an insidious one. It's an attempt to package piracy up with a bunch of other stuff we ( here in the UK ) actually have a right to.

An example:
I own a CD ( Pink Floyds dark side of the moon ), now I must've bought this 5 times over in various formats, and you know I don't mind, I like 'things', it's a thing I like, now I want to put this on my phone, I can buy it again on a music store, or I can rip it myself with no legal ramifications. If I bypass the 'ripping it myself' stage and download a ripped version, it can be legally argued that I've broken no law, that I'm merely producing a legal copy of material I have a right to copy in a slightly different manner.
- NOTE this may be different in the states now, but in the UK it's a test in law thats not been tested as yet, mainly as most believe that such a legal case would be in favour of the content owner.

Also it's starting to get besides the point now, how long do you think it'll be until we have functional netflix/spotify-style online gaming services. I know they already exist, but not at the same level of commercial operation as netflix yet.

Mm. I'm not a fan of piracy overall but where I *could* see myself being drawn to it is situations where I cannot easily obtain something without paying exhorbitant import fees and waiting ages for it to be delivered. See: comics.

Want me to buy your product? Let me buy a prepaid card of some kind, enter a code and then use it forever. No limited account activation bollocks, no annoying advertising riddled gaming platforms, no server downtimes where I can't log in to a single player game etc.

Competing with pirates is all about convenience, recent history shows us that customers will happily buy your stuff if it's quick, easy and functionally sound.

DRM only keeps check on legitimate users, since pirated copies have it removed, and is often a hassle to deal with.
In that case, it is actually preferable for the consumer to get a pirated copy, since his pirate buddies offer a more convenient service and a more functional product, restrictive DRM plays right into their hands.

Valve understands this, Steam is both DRM and a distribution platform but manages to not bother the player with 24 hour checkups or an internet connection requirement to save your games or even access them, it has an offline function and no "dead" torrents for the customer to dig through to download his game onto his machine, convenience wins out.

CAPTCHA: dollar bill

If we allowed larger captcha checks, would it actually participate in discussion?

It would probably be more coherent than the entire of the League of Legends forum .

Again, while piracy overall isn't a great thing, situations where I feel drawn to it are when:
- I cannot obtain the game, music or movie I want legally or for a reasonable price (see: rural Japan).
- When the game is ridiculously expensive.
- When I am not sure if the game will run well on my system and the devs are very coy regarding requirements.
- When you make it harder to buy your game legally than obtain it illegally.

I'd love a platform like Steam that lets me use prepaid cards (a lot of the world doesn't use credit cards much) and preferably try a game before buying it.

Heck, some of my favorite games (diablo 2, Unreal Tournament, Painkiller, Resident Evil 4, God of War 2, Baldur's Gate 2, Titan Quest, Neverwinter Nights etc.) I've ended up buying multiple times.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Well I personally would buy a lot more games on PC without DRM I put up with it to an extent on console as in this is a console game you cant copy the disc (which is fine) but not you have to be online to play (unless its an MMO obviously or something of the sort) or some bs like that.

I dont buy many games on Steam because I dislike forced being to install a client there is literally no reason to do so sure it can have benefits for some games but make it my choice whether I use it or not all you need is a webpage store front. Most of my games I buy from GOG because I like what their policies are and I want to support them. I dont pirate games and to be honest DRM turns me away from games and I find it a bit ridiculous that pirates actually end up with a better product in most cases because of it.

 

[Tayh]

I'd buy a lot more games if they weren't always, 99% of the time, encumbered with steam drm.
Would people like me offset the increased piracy?
Dunno. GOG seems to be doing fine, so I'm thinking Yes.