PC prices and misconceptions.
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I got my PC about 3 weeks ago 
Also, PC games are WAAAAAY cheaper than console games so the price at the moment and price over time equal out. (Also, PC games drop in price over a month, console games can take years before their prices drop)
Also, PC games are WAAAAAY cheaper than console games so the price at the moment and price over time equal out. (Also, PC games drop in price over a month, console games can take years before their prices drop)
1) Anti-static clip: problem solved.Azaraxzealot said:
2) Nah, the only real problem is the processor slot. Pick your processor before you pick your motherboard, because there's little difference between motherboards. Also, ensure you pick a big case, to ensure everything fits.
3) Tom's Hardware. There, research done.
4) Purchase anti-virus? Hah! Money for old rope. Avast. Problem solved.
5) I don't have a TV. Ergo, your gross generalisation does not apply.
http://www.directhit.com/ansres/What-Percentage-of-Americans-Own-a-TV.htmlDelusibeta said:
i guess my "gross generalization" does apply... for 99% of americans (i live in america) so i was well within my rights to make that generalization that you PROBABLY already own a TV
plus, like i said, who else would know about an anti-static clip? im sure to a layman that means nothing
Tom's Hardware? who's heard of that? again, layman wouldnt know what that is
and Avast? speaking to people who work around computers even for a living usually havent heard of it.
then, once again, you need to do much more research and really know your stuff before you could even BEGIN PC gaming. but with console gaming you just buy it and away you go.
its not so much a money investment as it is a time investment as well, MAYBE the payoff is worth it (if you know your stuff) but then again, PC gaming is too much of a gamble to the average individual for them to tell
A bunch of console-only gamers in utter denial ITT.
Look at Anandtech's System Guides for up-to-date component choices. At the bottom end of their latest guide there is an AMD system for $400 and an Intel one for $500. Throw an extra $300 at both builds for a better graphics card, Windows 7 Home OEM, and display, and you've got a gaming computer usable for at least the next 3-4 years for $700-800. This price, of course, is predicated on the absolute worst case that a person doesn't have a desktop PC at all otherwise. For a person who needs a desktop PC anyway - which equals almost everybody who does not need a laptop - the price of improving their decent normal PC to a gaming-capable PC is much less and beats a console by far.
How much does an X360 cost for 3 years? Going with the absolute best case that you already have a TV for it, we're talking $300 for a X360, $150 for Live (3 years). The price is clearly in the same ballpark. Now assume you buy 10 games during 3 years, just one game per 3.6 months. On the PC games will be at least $10 less (if you buy new ones), but more likely $15-30 less because the discounts are much bigger. Going with $15, you pay $150 less for the PC games over 3 years. Console plus the game price differential comes down to $600.
Obviously, if you buy 5 more games and 1 more year of Live, the PC becomes cheaper. And if you consider the *next* 3 years, the PC only needs slight upgrades, and will keep getting cheaper in relation to the console.
You can pay more for the PC if you want to, and get even more performance and quality - but the cheap build already has 3x the performance of a console, so for the purposes of any comparison, the minimum is more than enough.
I own three consoles in addition to my PC. No reason to bullshit, this is how the numbers work out - for a serious gamer the PC is about even, or cheaper. The only way the console can be cheaper is if you don't buy Live and/or if you buy very few games.
Look at Anandtech's System Guides for up-to-date component choices. At the bottom end of their latest guide there is an AMD system for $400 and an Intel one for $500. Throw an extra $300 at both builds for a better graphics card, Windows 7 Home OEM, and display, and you've got a gaming computer usable for at least the next 3-4 years for $700-800. This price, of course, is predicated on the absolute worst case that a person doesn't have a desktop PC at all otherwise. For a person who needs a desktop PC anyway - which equals almost everybody who does not need a laptop - the price of improving their decent normal PC to a gaming-capable PC is much less and beats a console by far.
How much does an X360 cost for 3 years? Going with the absolute best case that you already have a TV for it, we're talking $300 for a X360, $150 for Live (3 years). The price is clearly in the same ballpark. Now assume you buy 10 games during 3 years, just one game per 3.6 months. On the PC games will be at least $10 less (if you buy new ones), but more likely $15-30 less because the discounts are much bigger. Going with $15, you pay $150 less for the PC games over 3 years. Console plus the game price differential comes down to $600.
Obviously, if you buy 5 more games and 1 more year of Live, the PC becomes cheaper. And if you consider the *next* 3 years, the PC only needs slight upgrades, and will keep getting cheaper in relation to the console.
You can pay more for the PC if you want to, and get even more performance and quality - but the cheap build already has 3x the performance of a console, so for the purposes of any comparison, the minimum is more than enough.
I own three consoles in addition to my PC. No reason to bullshit, this is how the numbers work out - for a serious gamer the PC is about even, or cheaper. The only way the console can be cheaper is if you don't buy Live and/or if you buy very few games.
I've had my ACER E-System with bog-standard parts since '02 and it's only just started to become useless for gaming. It doesn't even meet minimum requirements for most games, even KOTOR looks like a pile of laggy, unrecognizable mush. So, I don't really feel too bad about doling out £800 for a new PC that'll bump me up to fulfilling recommended specs for, say, L4D2 as an example. It'll probably last me a good four years or so, anyway.
Yeah, of course you did. Last you 5 years playing your games at 640x480 resolution with the lowest possible settings possible on a 9 inch monitor. Oh and also only indy games.Ossian said:
Let me just size up how you managed to do that.
Mobo
GFX Card
CPU
Case
Fan
DVD Drive
Hard Disk
Mouse
Keyboard
Monitor
PSU
You would have to pay on average a 41 dollars each for those parts. Considering the prices of parts nowadays, I call bullshit. And I'm probably forgetting some components.
Why don't YOU stop pulling numbers out of your ass and tone down your elitist dickwad attitude. Honestly, I hate to sound like a jerk but that is EXACTLY what you are. A person who feels superior, with an "I know more than you" attitude, proving people wrong just because he can
So what if some people are ignorant about computer prices and spew it out over forums. What do you care? Let them be stupid, and let yourself be informed. I built my PC from scratch, and it cost me around 1500 dollars. However, I built it to last, should keep on chugging for at least 3-4 more years.
The point is, I really hate it when people take this superior stance over others because they are more properly informed than others. Inform them, don't agonize them. Especially on the internet of all places.
Eh, I can spend $10,000 on a system build, if I use server hardware and buy ridiculously overpriced brand-new stuff... or $3,000 if I go with normal end-user hardware... but I tend to go about two or three price-jumps down from the bleeding edge on a new system build.
If you're building on a budget, that $500 machine will do fine for a year or so, but I tend to want my system to last longer than that. I built the core of my current system in February of 2007 for just under $1,300. The only upgrades I've made to it since then have been hard drive space... and it runs everything I've thrown at it up to now just fine (although I have to run Crysis at medium detail for 30fps).
Sometimes I price out new system builds to drool over as I put money aside, and here's my latest from just a few days ago:
local shop
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Two~ $129
Proc: Phenom II Quad-Core 945 3.0GHz 8M~ $152
RAM: 6GB(2x3GB) Crucial 1333MHz~ $122
HDD: WD Velociraptor 600G 32M 10000 SATA III~ $318
DVD: Asus E818A6T 18x DVD-ROM Black SATA~ $22
internet
PS: Tagan ITZ series 700W~ $120
MB: MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD~ $165
BDR: LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - SATA WH10LS30~ $80 (this one's on sale, so... probably not a fair price)
Vid: MSI N460GTX Hawk 1GB 256bit GDDR5 PCIe2.0x16~ $215
Total~ $1323... plus shipping on four of the parts.
...before anyone asks about monitors, mice, and keyboards... I have spares laying around, so they're all a non-issue to me.
If I were to build that system, it would probably be good until at least 2015, the way the games industry has slowed down lately... but really, my current system will probably still be doing just fine in 2012.
If you're building on a budget, that $500 machine will do fine for a year or so, but I tend to want my system to last longer than that. I built the core of my current system in February of 2007 for just under $1,300. The only upgrades I've made to it since then have been hard drive space... and it runs everything I've thrown at it up to now just fine (although I have to run Crysis at medium detail for 30fps).
Sometimes I price out new system builds to drool over as I put money aside, and here's my latest from just a few days ago:
local shop
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Two~ $129
Proc: Phenom II Quad-Core 945 3.0GHz 8M~ $152
RAM: 6GB(2x3GB) Crucial 1333MHz~ $122
HDD: WD Velociraptor 600G 32M 10000 SATA III~ $318
DVD: Asus E818A6T 18x DVD-ROM Black SATA~ $22
internet
PS: Tagan ITZ series 700W~ $120
MB: MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD~ $165
BDR: LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - SATA WH10LS30~ $80 (this one's on sale, so... probably not a fair price)
Vid: MSI N460GTX Hawk 1GB 256bit GDDR5 PCIe2.0x16~ $215
Total~ $1323... plus shipping on four of the parts.
...before anyone asks about monitors, mice, and keyboards... I have spares laying around, so they're all a non-issue to me.
If I were to build that system, it would probably be good until at least 2015, the way the games industry has slowed down lately... but really, my current system will probably still be doing just fine in 2012.
Heh, Yahoo Answers. Well, whatever you want to declare as proof. Still calling a generalization a generalization.Azaraxzealot said:
You lack of willingness to use a search engine is disappointing. Here, I'll make it easy for you.
Calculate the quality of your processor HERE [http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/best-gaming-cpu-core-i3-athlon-ii-x4,review-32052-6.html] before you buy, likewise with graphics cards HERE [http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gaming-graphics-radeon-hd-6870-radeon-hd-6850,review-32039-7.html]. Rest of computer components shopping is basically learning how to comparison shop the rest of the components (motherboard, RAM, hard drive, case, power supply [footnote]remembering to not buy cheap but rather buy quality. Blown power supplies suck, regardless of gadget[/footnote], DVD drive and copy of Windows, with the addition of monitor, mouse and keyboard if required). Once you're up and running, download anti-virus from here [http://www.avast.com/en-gb/free-antivirus-download], or here [http://free.avg.com/gb-en/homepage], or here [http://www.avira.com/en/avira-free-antivirus], or here. [http://www.microsoft.com/security/products/mse.aspx] Etc.
Excuse me? I was posting this topic in reply to a horde of elitist console gamers they are claiming outrageous prices like $2000 for a gaming machine. I'm not claiming to know these people nor am I calling them dickwads. I may have come off as a "superior" but if you knew my situation you'd know that is exactly opposite of what I feel.Turtleboy1017 said:
I'm poor as the dirt on the bottom of your shoe, my parents can't send me to college and I can't find a job for the life of me. My custom built computer? Hand-me-downs from a nice enough friend that gave them away for like $30 (only because he needed the cash for replacement parts)
My definition of a "gaming" pc is something that will run modern games on med-high settings (Which btw will look better than xbox games, buuuuurn) I'm not some top of the line rich snob here.
Yes I did forget to include:
Keyboard.
Mouse.
Operating system.
Case.
3 of those parts people will have from an older machine, if you don't have one, ask your friends, you can find an old mouse keyboard and case from the 90s, might not be great, but until you save for better it will work.
Operating system, well, you can do a number of things to get one. Buy an older one, download a free one and run windows emulators, or some other way ::Caugh::
I don't get why people say $500 machines will last a year, video games are becoming more optimized and will run smoother. Crysis 2 will have lower specs then the first game but better looking. Some games like Red faction guallia will run slow even with great gaming machines, guess what? Turn the graphics down, you won't lose sleep if you can't see the pores on your character's face.
I'm sorry if I came out as a dickwad, I'm just trying to help people understand how wrong it is to think a good modern machine will run you two grand.
I didn't even talk about used parts (Ebay!
)
again, easier, simpler, and more reliable to just buy a console, because no average individual would do this research (meaning, everyone i know, including all the people i know who work with computers for a living)Delusibeta said:
and then, when someone makes another Crysis or Starcraft 2, you need to buy ANOTHER processor or graphics card. then open up your computer, then take out the old one, then put in the new one (all while being extremely careful not to short out the motherboard, and who the hell knows about anti-static wrist straps? not your average joe, that's for sure).
PC gaming is an exclusive club only reserved for those who are so absorbed in their own world that they think EVERYONE should know what they know (which is not the case). It's like an expert astrologist expecting the average person to know the names of all the constellations.
The average person just knows about pre-built computers and consoles (building a computer is a bit too intimidating for the average individual). They don't want to have to spend 500 dollars on a machine that MAY run their games, so they'd rather go with a machine that they know WILL run their games.
It's just the way we average people work. This isn't me projecting myself on others, because I have been apart of plenty of social groups and know hundreds of people. And so far I only know ONE who knows how to do PC gaming right. Plus, the Silicon Valley (where I live) is supposed to be full of people who know their PCs right?
Then, even if you build the machine, you still have to jump through DRM hoops, get yourself some anti-virus (again, average Joe thinks pirating is too risky and doesn't know about "free" anti-virus software) and then you need to actually find the games you want to play.
Knowing about proper "form fits" with different motherboards, where you need to go to find free stuff, and what where you can find the best components for the best prices is more inconvenient to learn than just bringing home a PS3 or Xbox 360.
It's just pure objective fact.
So, by your logic, Average Joe can't Google "free anti virus". First three hits: AVG, avast and Avira. This is particularly important since you're going to need a computer to watch videos over the internet and make posts on forums, use word processors and generally do work in this day and age, and so everyone's going to need anti-virus regardless.Azaraxzealot said:
Incidentally, Starcraft 2 was not a game that needed massive upgrades from everyone. If you had a half-decent computer (read: dual core processor and a graphics card from the last five years) you could run it. Crysis is granted, but considering it's still widely used as The benchmark for the hardest of PC gamers three years later, I think it's safe to assume that was a once in a decade thing.
See, this is the exact problem surrounding PC gaming. People are too lazy to put in some simple research (and yes, it really is pretty simple) so they just automatically assume that a gaming PC will cost them upwards of $2000 every few years to maintain, when that couldn't be further from the truth. If I'm not mistaken, I believe this topic was created to dispel some of those assumptions.Azaraxzealot said:
First of all, unless you were already planning to upgrade, no one is going to buy another CPU or GPU for a single game (unless they're extremely reckless with their money, in which case I doubt it'd be exclusively for PC components).
Secondly, you make replacing a CPU out to be some sort of daunting task, when it's actually quite simple; also, making sure to be grounded is extremely easy and doesn't require a scam like anti-static wrist straps.
Yes, there are some elitist assholes in the PC community but you can say that about anything. Have you really never seen an Xbox vs PS3 argument?
Again, this is just about ignorance and laziness. Also, $500 will run pretty much every modern game; you might have to (God forbid) turn some settings down to low, but it'll run them.
All this means is that the hundreds of people you know either just honestly prefer consoles (which I can accept), or prefer consoles because of the preconceived notion that PC gaming is some terribly complicated task that you can only achieve through years and years of study and years and years of saving up, when it's really the opposite.
I'll agree with you on that point about DRM, but there are plenty of issues on consoles as well. For instance, I find the idea of paying for multiplayer quite absurd. As for antivirus, Googling "antivirus" brings up a page full of free antivirus software. Googling "good antivirus" brings up reviews on which are better than others. I'm sure the Average Joe knows how to use Google.
Knowing about proper "form fits" with different mobos is as simple as reading a number on the box (seriously, 1366 slots for 1366 slot CPUs, 1156 slots for 1156 slot CPUs, etc.), and the rest of your points are countered by just being a good shopper. I highly doubt that you go out and buy the first thing on the shelf, rather than going out and looking for a good deal.
All of your points are trying to justify being lazy and not doing the research. If you find that PC gaming is too much trouble for you, then fine. Just don't go around and spread these outlandish ideas like
This thread is definitely going places... Oi.Sean.Devlin said:
He refutes an argument with one that makes some actual sense. Maintaining a computer isn't that difficult. There are tools that make it ridiculously easy.
Many PC power users don't even use anti-virus. Mainly because we know how to get rid of them without the use of third party programs. The average joe, however, would make excellent use of free anti-virus.
I can understand not wanting to put the components together in fear of damaging them, but really? Not wanting to bother with some of the most basic maintenance tasks? You realize that even the free anti-virus programs provide options for automatic scans so you don't have to?
Also, consoles aren't these indestructible machines either. The Red Ring of Death incident still occurs to some people, and I've personally overheated two Playstation 3 consoles at work.
Another option is getting a tech savvy friend to build it for you. I've done it for 50 bucks, which is dirt cheap. Some people would even do it for free.
Calm down a little.
Actually, by your (and other peoples') logic, Average Joe can't repair a V6 or do any of the other things you listed. However, Average Joe could learn to, but that would take work. I might be able to put together a PC, but I don't know the first thing about engines. Does that mean I should just give up and write cars off as being only for people who have tons of money and time? Of course I shouldn't. Except that is exactly what is happening here, except with PCs instead of cars.Sean.Devlin said:
I'm not special for knowing about computers. But you're not special for knowing how to repair an engine either.