Pedophile Sues Crew of "To Catch A Predator"

DEAD34345

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fenrizz said:
lunncal said:
Surprisingly, I finding myself on the side of the show with this one. Now I've never actually watched it (nor would I really want to), so I'm assuming the police do the actual catching of the criminals, but if so then what is the problem? Dangerous paedophiles that decide to sexually molest a minor are caught in a way that both raises awareness and generates money to continue the process.

What's the problem?[footnote]The moral problem I mean. I don't know or really care too much about the legality of it...[/footnote]
A few things.

* Undermining the justice system with vigilanteism.
The police are still catching the criminals (unless I'm wrong about that), the show is just aiding them as far as I can tell.

fenrizz said:
* Entrapment.
With this kind of crime, I don't really see that as a problem. Anyone who would attempt to sexually molest someone pretending to be a child would almost certainly sexually molest an actual child. I understand that it's a legal issue, but I don't see anything morally wrong with it in this specific case.

fenrizz said:
* Taking a very serious issue and making it into entertainment.
I don't understand why this is a problem at all. Lots of serious issues are made into entertainment, 99% of video games for example are about war and death. I think the show is a little distasteful personally (as I said, I wouldn't want to watch it myself), but I don't have anything against what the show is doing or the people who do want to watch it.
 

Terminate421

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Isn't this like a Grave Robber sueing Ghost Hunters?

Or

A poacher sueing "Life" or "Planet Earth"?
 

orangeban

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It's a tricky one, not clear cut, I'd say the pedophile actually has a point, as does the judge.

Now, the pedophile is in the wrong, he wanted to molest a child but he still has a right to privacy, especially before he has been tried. He has a right not to have his capture broadcast over the airwaves as part of a reality TV show, he should of been treated with the respect amd equality that the justice system promises.
 

Axolotl

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lunncal said:
fenrizz said:
* Entrapment.
With this kind of crime, I don't really see that as a problem. Anyone who would attempt to sexually molest someone pretending to be a child would almost certainly sexually molest an actual child. I understand that it's a legal issue, but I don't see anything morally wrong with it in this specific case.
And the pedophile doesn't see anything wrong having sex with a minor. You can't pick and choose which laws you obey based on your own morals. Just because you see nothing wrong with the show encouraging pedophila to boost it's profits doesn't change the fact that it's not legal.
 

General Tharivol

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A pedophile and a child molester are very different things. Being a pedophile means that one is sexually attracted to children, and there is nothing inherently illegal about that. The question is whether or not it can be proven that the individual has actually molested a child. This seems like an important distinction here. That is, unless our legal system includes Thought-Crime now.
 

DEAD34345

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Axolotl said:
lunncal said:
fenrizz said:
* Entrapment.
With this kind of crime, I don't really see that as a problem. Anyone who would attempt to sexually molest someone pretending to be a child would almost certainly sexually molest an actual child. I understand that it's a legal issue, but I don't see anything morally wrong with it in this specific case.
And the pedophile doesn't see anything wrong having sex with a minor. You can't pick and choose which laws you obey based on your own morals. Just because you see nothing wrong with the show encouraging pedophila to boost it's profits doesn't change the fact that it's not legal.
I did say that I wasn't talking about the legal side of it, I know that entrapment is illegal in many places, I just don't think that it is morally wrong in this instance. If I created the laws, it would be legal in this instance, but I don't, so it is illegal. If a paedophile created the laws they would make having sex with minors legal.

What's your point? Legally right and morally right are often two very different things, and I specifically said I was talking about the latter.
 

Michael Ellis

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I really don't understand the mentality of some of you people posting in this thread.

Pray tell, what on Earth is wrong with vigilanteism, or ruining the life of a child molester? What the hell is wrong with you people attacking Hansen and what he's doing?
 

DannyJBeckett

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Pyramid Head said:
vigilantism is another crime in itself

Batman does not approve of this comment.

Seriously though, I think the premise of a predator suing those who (in essence) caught him red-handed is ridiculous, not in a legal way - I can understand how this can be legally held up as an invasion of privacy - but in a sheer 'what the..?' way.

As much as I enjoy the show for it's exposure of the predators as the sick fucks they really are, I think the sensationalist way the whole thing is presented is very questionable.
 

Pyramid Head

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DannyJBeckett said:
Pyramid Head said:
vigilantism is another crime in itself

Batman does not approve of this comment.

Seriously though, I think the premise of a predator suing those who (in essence) caught him red-handed is ridiculous, not in a legal way - I can understand how this can be legally held up as an invasion of privacy - but in a sheer 'what the..?' way.

As much as I enjoy the show for it's exposure of the predators as the sick fucks they really are, I think the sensationalist way the whole thing is presented is very questionable.
You said something quite intelligent.
Not the Batman comment, in my humble opinion Batman can fuck off because clear battles between good and evil are boring. But your comment on the sensationalism of it all. I pose a question, even though common sense dictates this is a horrid act because it is very damaging to the victims who rarely, if ever, understand what is happening to them, if internet predators weren't such a boogeyman and people didn't care about them, do you think the show would exist? Is this really someone trying to get dangerous people off the streets or attention whores who want money?
 

RagTagBand

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Man, a lot of people seem to not know the difference between a sting and entrapment are. It's only entrapment if the individual would have not otherwise have committed the crime ie, pressured into it by the undercover agent. It's pretty goddamn clear that the people caught in the sting that these people are not law abiding citizens who have been manipulated into being willing child molesters.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment

This shit is not difficult to google.

The very idea that this show could turn YOU into a child molester, which is what shouting "Its entrapment!" implies, is absurd.
 

DannyJBeckett

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Pyramid Head said:
in my humble opinion Batman can fuck off
I'll pretend you didn't say that...

Pyramid Head said:
I pose a question, even though common sense dictates this is a horrid act because it is very damaging to the victims who rarely, if ever, understand what is happening to them, if internet predators weren't such a boogeyman and people didn't care about them, do you think the show would exist? Is this really someone trying to get dangerous people off the streets or attention whores who want money?
Oh there's no doubt the show is attention whoring for money. If they were to cut out the whole 'Hey, you just got caught!' part with Chris Hansen then the show may be considered more respectable. And you are right about the boogeyman part, if paedophilia were as common and publicly-mundane a crime as vandalism (God forbid), then no, this show wouldn't exist.
 

ace_of_something

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magnuslion said:
Honestly the stupidity of the above post astonishes the hell out of me.

Realistically, what Chris Hansen is getting away with is violating the constitution, and someones Miranda rights. He conducts interrogations that are filmed and then later broadcast and used in trial settings. He is actively engaged in entrapment. and he gets away with it because there are millions of fools in the U.S that do not know there own rights and find this crap "entertaining". encouraging pedophilia is not entertaining. I would crucify Hansen in his own front yard, but that would make us both criminals.
If we haven't met on the escapist. Hi! I'm Thor 10 year police officer and recently appointed Professor of Criminal Justice.

Entrapment is when the police trick or force you into doing something you have no choice to do. It is NOT when a situation is created where you do something illegal. The people on that show could have, Not shown up to their rendezvous, stopped talking to the 'child' at any point or walked away from the situation at many different points.

It would be entrapment if while pretending to be the child the police (or chris whoever) said "If you don't come visit me tonight I'll kill myself" Then the guy could say "I wouldn't have showed up. I had no choice the kid was going to kill herself"
That is entrapment.

Another famous case happened when the police sent a previously convicted pederast 'kiddie porn subscriptions' for THREE years waiting for the guy to subscribe to their 'magazine' then arresting him when he did. This was technically a 'grey' area (nothing forced him to sign up) but thrown out for other reasons. (can't recall the case name I don't have my books in front of me I believe it was in Iowa)

Despite what TV and maybe wikipedia has taught people. Your miranda rights are not first read to you when you're arrested or even at the beginning of an interview.

Miranda rights are read to you once you've officially become a suspect. As hansen interviews the people it could be argued that they are 'witnesses' or a 'person of interest' if you're either of those things Miranda doesn't enter the picture. I do agree with you though that this is at BEST a grey area and at worst a misconstruing of the rules. (Chris also identifies himself as a journalist, not a law enforcement officer which further muddies the waters)

Almost every state also require you to sign (or at least mark) a document saying you have read the following listing the rights.
Until the early 90's police would get around miranda rights by letting barely literate supsects read the document. The kibosh was put on this most places now require you to read it out loud to them. Some states even go so far as to have a 'plain speech' copy of the document. (Ours is written at a 2nd grade reading level)


That all being said. My two cents? I agree with you that the show was WILDLY inappropriate, cruel, and crass. The way the interviews were conducted was again, shady at best, and the dramatic natures of the arrest and airing of the show were made to PUNISH people by public humiliation (5th amendment violation) before they had a trial! If anything THAT is what he should be suing for.
 

VGCATZ

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I'm going to quickly interupt the seriousness of this discussion by linking to that classic show "The Boondocks"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-hXdXhswrI

A premonition in cartoon form.

Also see Robot chicken episode "President Hu Forbids It" for a more apt representation
 

CM156_v1legacy

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ace_of_something said:
Another famous case happened when the police sent a previously convicted pederast 'kiddie porn subscriptions' for THREE years waiting for the guy to subscribe to their 'magazine' then arresting him when he did. This was technically a 'grey' area (nothing forced him to sign up) but thrown out for other reasons. (can't recall the case name I don't have my books in front of me I believe it was in Iowa)
Was it Jacobson v. United States [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._United_States]?

OT: I remembered the ICP song when I first read it. I found the show funny, if nothing else. Legal? I don't know. High class? Ehhhh, not likely. Freaking hilarious? Yeah.
 

ace_of_something

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CM156 said:
ace_of_something said:
Another famous case happened when the police sent a previously convicted pederast 'kiddie porn subscriptions' for THREE years waiting for the guy to subscribe to their 'magazine' then arresting him when he did. This was technically a 'grey' area (nothing forced him to sign up) but thrown out for other reasons. (can't recall the case name I don't have my books in front of me I believe it was in Iowa)
Was it Jacobson v. United States [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._United_States]?

OT: I remembered the ICP song when I first read it. I found the show funny, if nothing else. Legal? I don't know. High class? Ehhhh, not likely. Freaking hilarious? Yeah.
Ahh, Ha yes. That is the one I was thinking of. It seems i was a little off on some of the fine details.

You. You get a gold star.