People's distaste for Science/Maths

[Sarge034]

Before I start ranting, I will say that I don't feel superior because I study/enjoy science, I'm just feeling a bit pissy about other people's views on it.(...)

(...)he also likes to think himself as very smart and good at science (which as far as I can tell he isn't). My teacher asked him what he wanted to do at university and he said he wanted to do Chemistry, the teacher asked him why and he blurted out some text book definition of research to do with functional groups of organic chemicals which wasn't impressive to any science student at all.(...)

(...)I don't know if its my generation of just people in general at this age, but I don't understand why being an academic is something that is frowned upon now, it's a pretty pathetic thing for people to do.

Anybody know why so many people look down upon people being intellectual/inquisitive in school/college at the moment, and why it's almost becoming a social taboo to talk about enjoying something that is to do with college work and academic subjects?(...)

Can you see the irony of your statement?

I might be missing some part of the story, but it sounds like you were looking down at someone who has an interest in chemistry. While he might not be as smart or as well versed in chemistry as you are. He is showing an interest in intellectual/inquisitive activities.

So why did you, of all people, dismiss his claim?


To answer your question in broader terms. I believe It is becoming tabooed because of the reactions of both the internal and external forces. The internal force (those who are intelligent/ have a strong grasp on the subject) do not react well when others (who are less intelligent/ less of a grasp on the subject) try to enter the field. The external forces (stereotypical jocks, ect, ect...) are still treating those with an interest in these particular subjects as being outcasts and socially inept. The combined shunning from the internal and external forces leaves no place for the marginalized group. When that happens it is normally easier to taboo the group and forget the problem exists. The same thing was done in Europe in regards to Gypsies.

Just my two cents, but I would like an answer to the first question about your statement.

Also, obligatory....

 

[cookyy2k]

snip

It doesn't help that those are also the more...seen...as in they are the most likely to have students appear in the news (not many people want to hear about what chemists, or biologists are doing)

I think the problem is science is reaching a point where your "man on the street" doesn't understand it and the scientists arn't good at putting their stuff across in an accesible way to the "man on the street" since the average joe public isn't going to strive to change this it's upto the scientists. We regularily hold conferences where we talk about all our research where it's open to anybody and we try to talk about it in a way anyone can understand. We don't always succede but it's needed more.

 

[Necator15]

I haven't noticed any specific hatred of it. I do notice hatred going in the opposite directions: seeing science students hating on artsy students. Most of the time when I hear people hating on science it stems from a deep ignorance of the subject. Note that's when I hear people hate it. Not people that simply kind of dislike it, or people it just isn't their thing. Those people just usually have other interests.

The only time it bothers me when people talk about science is when it's obvious they have no idea what the hell they're talking about. These tend to be... Have you ever read Questionable Content? People like the characters in that comic.

 

[Shadow5]

The thing that gets me is when the people who are doing Physics and Maths get down on Biology saying "its not a real science".
I've never run into people who act the way you describe, although I'm certain they must exist.
Most people at my university think pretty highly of people doing Physics and Maths because they know how boring it can be (monitoring the motion of a pendulum for 3 hours) and that it is completely necessary for technological advancement

 

[artanis_neravar]

Before I start ranting, I will say that I don't feel superior because I study/enjoy science, I'm just feeling a bit pissy about other people's views on it.(...)

(...)he also likes to think himself as very smart and good at science (which as far as I can tell he isn't). My teacher asked him what he wanted to do at university and he said he wanted to do Chemistry, the teacher asked him why and he blurted out some text book definition of research to do with functional groups of organic chemicals which wasn't impressive to any science student at all.(...)

(...)I don't know if its my generation of just people in general at this age, but I don't understand why being an academic is something that is frowned upon now, it's a pretty pathetic thing for people to do.

Anybody know why so many people look down upon people being intellectual/inquisitive in school/college at the moment, and why it's almost becoming a social taboo to talk about enjoying something that is to do with college work and academic subjects?(...)

Can you see the irony of your statement?

I might be missing some part of the story, but it sounds like you were looking down at someone who has an interest in chemistry. While he might not be as smart or as well versed in chemistry as you are. He is showing an interest in intellectual/inquisitive activities.

So why did you, of all people, dismiss his claim?


To answer your question in broader terms. I believe It is becoming tabooed because of the reactions of both the internal and external forces. The internal force (those who are intelligent/ have a strong grasp on the subject) do not react well when others (who are less intelligent/ less of a grasp on the subject) try to enter the field. The external forces (stereotypical jocks, ect, ect...) are still treating those with an interest in these particular subjects as being outcasts and socially inept. The combined shunning from the internal and external forces leaves no place for the marginalized group. When that happens it is normally easier to taboo the group and forget the problem exists. The same thing was done in Europe in regards to Gypsies.

Just my two cents, but I would like an answer to the first question about your statement.

Also, obligatory....

First, that is not irony. Second, (s)he was using the example of how other people reacted to this guys interest in chemistry, not his/her own reaction

 

[artanis_neravar]

The thing that gets me is when the people who are doing Physics and Maths get down on Biology saying "its not a real science".
I've never run into people who act the way you describe, although I'm certain they must exist.
Most people at my university think pretty highly of people doing Physics and Maths because they know how boring it can be (monitoring the motion of a pendulum for 3 hours) and that it is completely necessary for technological advancement

I look down on the math majors more then I do Bio, in fact I found Bio to be more challenging, and therefore interesting the Chem.

snip

It doesn't help that those are also the more...seen...as in they are the most likely to have students appear in the news (not many people want to hear about what chemists, or biologists are doing)

I think the problem is science is reaching a point where your "man on the street" doesn't understand it and the scientists arn't good at putting their stuff across in an accesible way to the "man on the street" since the average joe public isn't going to strive to change this it's upto the scientists. We regularily hold conferences where we talk about all our research where it's open to anybody and we try to talk about it in a way anyone can understand. We don't always succede but it's needed more.

I agree, although it gets a lot harder to make things easier for the average person to understand when your presentation requires understanding of a lot of theory in order to grasp what you are talking about.

 

[Sarge034]

I've no idea why this is the case. I completly agree with everything you've said. If anyone asks me what I'm doing at uni or as I job and I say physics instant glaze over or change of topic. It annoys me because it is something I'm passionate about. I try my best to get others interested but with very little success.

Tell them you know how to make a gauze cannon, or how to make a paint chip as deadly as a nuclear blast. Instant Epic Tier Three Engineer Physicists status.

In short.

1) I'm a physicist.
2) I can make a gauze cannon.
3) ?
4) Profit!

 

[artanis_neravar]

I've no idea why this is the case. I completly agree with everything you've said. If anyone asks me what I'm doing at uni or as I job and I say physics instant glaze over or change of topic. It annoys me because it is something I'm passionate about. I try my best to get others interested but with very little success.

Tell them you know how to make a gauze cannon, or how to make a paint chip as deadly as a nuclear blast. Instant Epic Tier Three Engineer Physicists status.

In short.

1) I'm a physicist.
2) I can make a gauze cannon.
3) ?
4) Profit!

1) I'm an Engineer.
2) I can make a vibration bomb.
3) ?
4) Profit!

Let's join forces and create a super awesome military force

 

[cookyy2k]

snip

I agree, although it gets a lot harder to make things easier for the average person to understand when your presentation requires understanding of a lot of theory in order to grasp what you are talking about.

Oh don't I know it. It's also getting harder as the average joe public is getting less interested and less knowlageable on such things. In the ye olde days of Newton it was possible for an individual to know all areas of physics, now it's just not possible. In the days of Einstein, Shrodinger and Bhor physisists were treated as b list celebs nowendays. They may not be the biggest thing but lots of people followed them and their latest theories. Now it's steven hawking and/or brian cox if you ask a random public member to name a physisist. It's really sad but unfortunately how it's going. I started with 36 in my class and 7 graduated, now 36 is bad enough to start by 7 graduates at the end! Less than half UK universities teach physics, closed due to lack of interest or the fact physics departments are expensive.

 

[Shadu]

I've noticed, personally at my school, people don't particuarly care about much outside of their major or interest set. Art people don't like science like the science people do. The math people don't care much for the English stuff and so on.

I can sort of be accused of this. It's not that I'm not interested at all, but a lot of the science stuff these days goes over my head and really, just bore me. I'm not interested. I'm glad there are people who are and who do what they do, but it's not for me.

I wasn't great at math, I'm not fantastic at science, therefore, I don't really care for either. The only sort of science that interests me is medical science. Diseases and stuff. But not enough to do anything about it really.

 

[khiliani]

never experienced this at uni, got a lot of it at highschool though, but they cn all go to hell when i use the skills im learning in my microbiology major to make the super virus to wipe out the world

 

[artanis_neravar]

snip

I agree, although it gets a lot harder to make things easier for the average person to understand when your presentation requires understanding of a lot of theory in order to grasp what you are talking about.

Oh don't I know it. It's also getting harder as the average joe public is getting less interested and less knowlageable on such things. In the ye olde days of Newton it was possible for an individual to know all areas of physics, now it's just not possible. In the days of Einstein, Shrodinger and Bhor physisists were treated as b list celebs nowendays. They may not be the biggest thing but lots of people followed them and their latest theories. Now it's steven hawking and/or brian cox if you ask a random public member to name a physisist. It's really sad but unfortunately how it's going. I started with 36 in my class and 7 graduated, now 36 is bad enough to start by 7 graduates at the end! Less than half UK universities teach physics, closed due to lack of interest or the fact physics departments are expensive.

Out of 154 Freshman engineer's at my school, around 20 graduated, and that's across the 4 engineering disciplines. 20 graduates is the largest graduating class we have ever had. And I can't even name any famous engineers not that it really matters, most of our stuff relies on you guy's theory so we learn famous physicists.

 

[corsair47]

i love science because of this

and the chaos that soon follows. Or if we're really lucky, something useful actually happens. Most scientific discoveries were caused by people dicking around in laboratories

 

[Sarge034]

First, that is not irony.

I do find it ironic that the OP is alarmed at the number of people who look down upon people interested in science/math and then proceeds to do the same.

Don't try to tell me what is or is not ironic. It is relative to the individual responding.

Second, (s)he was using the example of how other people reacted to this guys interest in chemistry, not his/her own reaction

That is my problem with it right there. Weather intentionally or not the OP dismissed someone interested in Chem because they were not as proficient in the subject as some and the person likes to boast a lot. I was asking why (s)he took that particular stance.

Thank you for the input but if you don't mind I want to hear the OP's reasoning, not yours.

 

[emeraldrafael]

at my college, we really dont look down on anyone (unless you go to IUP, you lazy drunken losers). I'm taking accounting, which is probably the most basic math you can do, so I cant really look down on anyone (except maybe the medical and communications majors).

But in any case, its not the majors I hate, its the people that take it. Just the ones that are superior douche nozzles who think cause they're taking Math major or being an actuary science major. Those people can go fucking rot for all I care, bunch of self cetner dicks.

 

[artanis_neravar]

First, that is not irony.

I do find it ironic that the OP is alarmed at the number of people who look down upon people interested in science/math and then proceeds to do the same.

Don't try to tell me what is or is not ironic. It is relative to the individual responding.

Second, (s)he was using the example of how other people reacted to this guys interest in chemistry, not his/her own reaction

That is my problem with it right there. Weather intentionally or not the OP dismissed someone interested in Chem because they were not as proficient in the subject as some and the person likes to boast a lot. I was asking why (s)he took that particular stance.

Thank you for the input but if you don't mind I want to hear the OP's reasoning, not yours.

But the OP didn't dismiss what someone interested in chem, the OP asked why other people dismissed this person's interest in chem.

Also

Verbal irony is a trope in which the intended meaning of a statement differs from the meaning that the words appear to express.

Situational irony involves an incongruity between what is expected or intended and what actually occurs.

Dramatic irony is an effect produced by a narrative in which the audience knows more about present or future circumstances than a character in the story.

Irony is a defined word, and since the OP's post does not fall into any of these definitions it is not Irony and no matter you may think it is not relative to the individual.

 

[FoolKiller]

My feelings on this topic are simple.

The dominant notion seems to be it's popular to own and operate technology, not to understand how it works. Similar how it is cool to own and operate nice cars but mechanics are often just looked at as grease-monkeys.

 

[Nayr]

It is in my opinion that people "look down" on science not because it is boring, but because a lot of people use it as a sign of intelligence, especially scientists. I think people just find scientists cocky. I am a science (biology) major at university and people get pissed off at science students because many of them do lack social skills, partly because they are so brilliant.

As well I know at school, at least my university there is a strong program hierarchy, where science views itself as the pinnacle program, and arts and business are below it. So I feel like at my school, at least, science is looked down on because it doesn't get as much funding and the science students really look down on the other programs.

Thats my personal view, I could elaborate; but thats sums it up well. I know I don't view other programs as lesser, they are all interesting. Even though it sucks business gets fridays off and I have saturday lab...

 

[Silent Anima]

I like science, but I find math to be one of the dullest things I've ever tried to learn. I rank it there with watching paint dry on the dullness scale.

That's generous of you giving math that high of a rating.
OT: I feel the same as the guy I quoted.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Math isn't very interesting to a majority of high school/college level kids in America. Probably because its just not very interesting. Science is also a relatively boring topic unless you're devoutly into it.
Now... as to the jerkoff mentality of American HS/College kids... most of those people are more interested in partying/getting laid than their future. And most of them will end up managing a fast food restaurant with their "I couldn't figure out what to major in" general degrees, or be some mid-level paper pusher in some boring corporation because they put the 1/3 effort it takes to scrape by and pass. Probably some of them are pissed off that their dreams of being a sports hero died, or that being popular in High School doesn't mean jack in the real world and are jealous of people who actually know what they want to do in life (and are good at what they do).
However, a counterpoint to you, the OP, is this. There is no requirement for anyone to respect or like what you do. And since you're in a minority topic, average people will probably be bored with your views as it does not interest them. They may "owe" their lifestyle or quality of life to technological advances, but there is no requirement for them to enjoy or like the topic of how it came to be. A lot of technology is above most people's heads. They simply don't think like that and it may be more a failing on your part to realize that some people don't have the same mindset. Maybe another part is realizing that if you spend all your time around this area, and have nothing else to talk about, it might come across as boring as well. I'm not making any judgements here tho, just pointing out areas you may be missing. Its all about how you can relate to other people as well as how they relate to you. Remember the average person knows enough to get by, but not always how the things they use to get by work, and it may be that to get by socially you need to make allowances for their limitations.