Permanent Character Death

[the protaginist]

Fire Emblem. DEAR GOD, FIRE EMBLEM. I try to go through the game without reseting, but for each game, i have a character i CANNOT let die, even if more die rescuing him.


Fire Emblem: If Raven dies, I reset. He's just that badass.

Sacred Stones: Ross. I love the kid, but he's hard to level up and keep alive at earlier levels. One careless move and he's gone. Reset. oh, and Joshua, but thats mainly the hat.

Shadow Dragon: it's Etzel. Love that mage.

 

[Deacon Cole]

It reminds me of the old game Rogue where if you die, the game deletes your saves on the disk. That's hardcore right there. But annoying.

The only way to make this work is to have death not be the end of the game. Just your character comes to somewhere else or something. Maybe in the bad guy's dungeon. Maybe in a hovel because some kindly peasants found you and are nursing you back to health. The game should mix it up because otherwise it would get repetitious.

But I don't think saves should be abolished. Game over screens should be abolished. No developer with two brain cells between their entire staff would make a game were death as a game over is permanent and you must start over anymore. Not even just starting over the level. Because if they did they would sell maybe four copies of the game to idiots.

Dying and starting over is not immersive or any such gibberish. It's annoying. It means I have to start all over again to get back to where I just was. It also means the game can go fuck itself.

 

[lacktheknack]

In an MMO? We're talking mass suicides beyond the Kurt Cobain copycats here!

 

[Strawb]

Why is everyone saying no? It can work in certain contexts, and it HAS worked before.

Any examples? I can't think of anyone myself...

Personally, I think the idea of permanent death in games sounds interesting, but as some of you will think too, it can only work for certain games. This is why I'm also looking forward to Heavy Rain where you simply switch to another character in the story if you die with one. Some games that could focus a bit more on story, could also do this success, if done properly of course. I am actually imagining what CoD4 would be like if you died with a character permanently, and then just switched to another one in the platoon/group/whatever.

Hopefully, more games like Heavy Rain will surface, depending on it's success. I would definitely welcome more games that are more story driven than action driven.

 

[kiltmanfortywo]

sounds interesting. I would play it, just because I want to see new things in my games.

A mmorpg would be weird, because one of the main selling points of those is to kill people, and if death carries a heavy price, few would want to do it.

 

[Kuchinawa212]

Eh I worked so hard on my guy and If get killed by the final boss and I need to work up to that again. I might be a little ticked

 

[Sneaklemming]

ugh... sounds cheap, like what retro games did

 

[Trendkill6]

I'd like it for an RPG if you got to make multiple charecters for a party and if you're main dies you choose someone else to be a new main charecter.

and maybe somewhere in the story you can reserect ONE and only ONE charecter =]

 

[spindle]

I've only ever really seen diablo 2 do it with hardcore mode, seems like a waste of time on a game where a lag spike can get you killed.

 

[squid5580]

This concept has been done a billion times. Just pick up some NES, SNES, Atari or Coleco games.

don't for get the master system and genesis

Dammit we got the PS3 vs Wii vs 360 fanboy war to worry about. Don't be rehashing the old Sega vs Nintendo one again.

Oh and before anyone else starts I forgot to mention the 25 cent arcade games as well.

 

[grimsprice]

i think it REALLY REALLY sucks if you put 30 hours into fallout and then get pwned by a grue. but for games ranbow 6 or COD it makes great sense. i mean you want to play through the entire mission on said battlefield and its just weird to spawn somewhere or get checkpoints.

 

[Nutcase]

People are not stupid. We seldom feel fear or panic unless there's something real on the line. This is one reason why the Marine portion of the first Aliens vs Predator on the PC was utterly terrifying - it had no saving in the middle of a level. Every single facehugger skittering in the darkness was capable of eating several minutes of your progress. (They were insta-kill, of course.) Unfortunately, Rebellion didn't see what a good thing they had built, and added save functionality in a patch.

Permadeath for longer-term characters is the same thing, but more so. You have to design the game around it, but when you do, it has the potential to be totally awesome.

 

[Daedalus1942]

(Searched, didn't find anything. Inb4 search button trolls. =P)

Alright, so. I remember playing games in which character death was permanent. You played, and if you failed, you were done. Start over at the beginning. Simple concept, right? I'm sure it wouldn't work well in games like Halo or Gears, but in games in which you make your own characters, such as Fallout, Oblivion, and the like. Having savepoints and stuff really takes away from the feeling that you're going into the next room, or fighting the next boss. You're not risking anything.

Now, on occasion, I'll play Oblivion like that, dying and building a brand new character, but even then I know that if anything goes wrong, there's always my last save to revert back to. Even though you play it like you're not going to be able to go back, the feeling is no longer there. Dungeon Crawl does this well. Even newish mainstream games, like Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and EVE online are reminiscent of this. FFTA had quests in areas which had no 'judges', meaning that if your characters died, they friggin' died. In EVE online, character death isn't permanent, but if your ship were to get attacked and destroyed, you lose the ship and everything on it.

I think it would be interesting if an MMO decided to do this. People wouldn't take as many risks, and the PVP would be much more interesting, because instead of a minor annoyance, they would seriously lose their characters, and all of the work they did.

So my question to all my fellow Escapists is this: What do you think about permanent character death? Is it a good idea? Does it ruin an otherwise good game? Does it thrill or annoy you?

And also, are there any newer games out there that do this? I know of Dungeon Crawl, and I think Ghost Recon does it, but that's about it...

The last game i found that did this was Dialo II in Hardcore mode.

 

[Ossum]

I just thought up a really good way to implement semi-permanent character death, and were I the game creator, make obscene piles of money.

Any character can die, but resurrection can occur if you pay actual money.

"No, really, your character's not dead! But due to server overhead and account reestablishment costs, there is a per-death fee of $3.99 to restore your character to full HP. Until then this character will have to remain inactive though you can of course start with a new character if you choose."

People who waste characters early on with bad builds just keep remaking their characters. Those with a level 120 Deathbringer might think four bucks is dirt cheap to keep that character going. All depends on how much your effort is worth.

 

[grimsprice]

It reminds me of the old game Rogue where if you die, the game deletes your saves on the disk. That's hardcore right there. But annoying.

The only way to make this work is to have death not be the end of the game. Just your character comes to somewhere else or something. Maybe in the bad guy's dungeon. Maybe in a hovel because some kindly peasants found you and are nursing you back to health. The game should mix it up because otherwise it would get repetitious.

But I don't think saves should be abolished. Game over screens should be abolished. No developer with two brain cells between their entire staff would make a game were death as a game over is permanent and you must start over anymore. Not even just starting over the level. Because if they did they would sell maybe four copies of the game to idiots.

Dying and starting over is not immersive or any such gibberish. It's annoying. It means I have to start all over again to get back to where I just was. It also means the game can go fuck itself.

haha. seriously. in something like resident evil games, you watch the giant zombie boss EAT YOUR FACE. and then THEN it says YYYYYOOOOOOOUUUUUUU AAAAAARRRRRRRREEEEEEE DDDDEEEEAAADDD!!!!!! in big blood stained letters. i cant stand that.

 

[Ossum]

People are not stupid. We seldom feel fear or panic unless there's something real on the line.

Super Metroid had saves of course, but I remember sitting outside Ridley's door for ten minutes while I steeled up the courage to go in. This was because the Space Pirate hall prior to Ridley was a death chamber for me back then and I was terrified I'd have to run that gauntlet again if I bit it at Ridley.

Luckily for me, I schooled that overgrown gecko with extreme prejudice.

 

[Dom Uk]

I'd like a game to see a game like this, for no other reason than to see Yahtzee tear it a new one.

 

[Valiance]

I have mentioned here that I play dungeons of moria and dungeons of the unforgiven, right?

Not only is there permanent character death, there's MONSTERS WHO LEVEL DRAIN WHEN THEY FUCKING HIT YOU.

 

[Ossum]

It reminds me of the old game Rogue where if you die, the game deletes your saves on the disk. That's hardcore right there. But annoying.

The only way to make this work is to have death not be the end of the game. Just your character comes to somewhere else or something. Maybe in the bad guy's dungeon. Maybe in a hovel because some kindly peasants found you and are nursing you back to health. The game should mix it up because otherwise it would get repetitious.

But I don't think saves should be abolished. Game over screens should be abolished. No developer with two brain cells between their entire staff would make a game were death as a game over is permanent and you must start over anymore. Not even just starting over the level. Because if they did they would sell maybe four copies of the game to idiots.

Dying and starting over is not immersive or any such gibberish. It's annoying. It means I have to start all over again to get back to where I just was. It also means the game can go fuck itself.

haha. seriously. in something like resident evil games, you watch the giant zombie boss EAT YOUR FACE. and then THEN it says YYYYYOOOOOOOUUUUUUU AAAAAARRRRRRRREEEEEEE DDDDEEEEAAADDD!!!!!! in big blood stained letters. i cant stand that.

No More Heroes has the blood pouring out of Travis' mouth, and the dischordant brrrr sound from the 8-bit audio, then static. Drove me up the wall every time.

And let's not forget poor Samus screaming her last every time you hose it, with her suit blowing off in Super, and her visor going staticky and shutting off in Prime. I couldn't play again for a week after that.

 

[Ossum]

I have mentioned here that I play dungeons of moria and dungeons of the unforgiven, right?

Not only is there permanent character death, there's MONSTERS WHO LEVEL DRAIN WHEN THEY FUCKING HIT YOU.

Sadism is somebody inventing a monster that knocks you to level 1 for an hour and then runs off so its low-level enemy buddies can crawl out of the fungal shadows to eat you alive.