Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy - Your thoughts now that it's over

Kolby Jack

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Apr 29, 2011
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Fox12 said:
Kolby Jack said:
Failure is a pretty broad term, and the way you used it suggested to me that you thought of the trilogy as a failure not just in your eyes, but overall. If you consider it a failure, that's fine, more power to you. It just read like you thought it failed in any way that matters to the creators, which it didn't. That was my only point.
I think that's a little sad, though. It made a lot of money, it's true, but there are other measures of success, surely? The last film currently has an aggregate score of 60% on rotten tomatoes, and was a major critical let down, especially given the pedigree of the source materials, and of the older films. They messed up the themes and lore that mattered most to Tolkien. The fact that they succeeded in the only way that mattered to Hollywood, the bottom line, is the entire problem. Their priorities are all wrong. They shouldn't be trying to make the most money for the least amount of effort, they should be trying to create a quality piece of art. Sure, it wasn't unsuccessful, but in 10 years no one will even remember the work. To people who respect Tolkien, and who have studied his work in earnest, it feels like this series made a mockery of what he stood for. It would be like if someone made an adaptation of King Leer, and inserted fart jokes everywhere. It's just a little sad, is all.
I don't think it's QUITE as classless as that. Believe me, I am no stranger to utterly shit adaptations of works I love. I'm a huge fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender, and I've seen the film (on my 21st birthday, no less). Maybe it's not totally accurate to compare a cartoon (no matter how good) to a classic piece of literature (even though I haven't read any of the books; Tolkien's writing is too wordy and dry for me), but the rage was there. I was FURIOUS after I saw that movie. I can respect people not liking the trilogy, especially if they're fans of the book.

But 60% is still a majority of critics liking it. Sure, any Tolkien fan would want a Tolkien adaptation to get 90% or more because they feel he deserves as much, but I think any Tolkien fan would be glad that these movies are bringing his works to wider audience. I just don't see how these films are a disservice to the man's legacy in any way. The books are still there, as he wrote them, but now people like me who aren't big into books can have a way to enjoy his ideas in another way.
 

babinro

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Sep 24, 2010
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I can't add much to this discussion other than to say I enjoyed the book up until the end of Smaug.

I've tried to watch the first hobbit movie twice now and both times I failed to get through it. It's sheer boredom. I'm not invested in the characters they focus on. The action sequences are time sinks because I have no reason to care. It's just something that looks kind of pretty at times but completely fails to hook. My mind wanders until which point I'm upset at myself for wasting my free time and move on.

I've heard that the 2nd movie would be right up my alley from some who genuinely disliked the first as I did. I may give the second movie a try but I'm not about to pay money for it. It'd have to be added to netflix when I later renew my subscription or be free by some other means.
 

wizzy555

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Oct 14, 2010
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In general it had less soul than the lord of the rings trilogy. Final movie had a very conflicting tone. The padding scenes were a missed opportunities, if you have to stretch the movie into 3, stretch it with interesting stuff. They could have explored more Elven or Orc history with more flashbacks.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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May 15, 2010
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I've honestly refused to watch the movies the moment I heard they were splitting them, then hearing Jackson was being tapped to direct despite his constant misgivings on doing any more LOTR material post Return of the King. From everything I've been told, the heart he put into the LOTR trilogy doesn't exist anywhere in the Hobbit movies and that is one reason why I won't watch it.
Also it kind of insulted the story to make it about anything except for Bilbo's POV, because thats all it was supposed to be... That they had to shoehorn in Legolas, split the story into pieces and add stuff. I'd feel it would be an insult to my memory of reading that book as a child to even give these movies the time of day, no offense to the people who probably did their best to make butter scrape over too much bread.
 

Azure23

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I thought the first film was kind of charming, anytime spent at the shire is a win in my book. The rest I just didn't really care for. I actually fell asleep during the third one, I was jet lagged as shit but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying better movies before.
 

Padwolf

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Sep 2, 2010
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I had a great time watching it. I especially enjoyed the second one. My boyfriend and I sat watching it together and neither of us really wanted it to end, we were enjoying it so much. I thought it was great. So I liked them. Don't have much more to say to be honest. I just liked them.
 

FPLOON

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Other than that, I haven't tried to marathon through the extend version of of The Hobbit trilogy the same way I did with The Lord of the Rings trilogy, so maybe that would change my mind in some way, shape, or form...
 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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Before giving my opinion on the trilogy, I don't care how faithful it was or wasn't to the book (I love the book BTW), it's Jackson's adaptation so I'll judge it as it is.

The more I think about it, the more I just don't care for it. So much felt like unnecessary filler. The romance felt like it was just trying to make us feel closer to Kili since he was one of the dwarves that was going to die. All of the drama surrounding Tauriel and Legolas felt so forced and like it had been done a thousand times only much better.

There were also many scenes that attempted to be tense. Every single one fell flat for me. It's really hard to think that anyone is in any real danger when there's scenes like the barrel ride, Radagast's rabbit sled chase, and Disney Smaug in the movie. Those lighthearted scenes are fine if you're not also trying to be the more serious and gritty Lord of the Rings movies at the same time.

Another thing that really pissed me off were the really stupid ways in which Jackson tried to tie the movies more into the LotR trilogy. The stuff with old Bilbo and Frodo felt completely pointless and so did the random mission for Legolas at the end of the last movie. The side stuff with Sauron, while leading to a somewhat cool confrontation, felt completely out of place and only served the bog down the movies even more.

The more I think about these movies, the more I realize that the only good thing about about them was Bilbo, and even he was pushed away for large amounts of the third film.

Finally, the dwarves... I'd be extremely impressed if anyone was able to remember the names and faces of all of the dwarves. I think Jackson tried to characterize maybe 4-5 of them. He had three fucking movies! Instead of putting in all of that extra crap that I just mentioned, maybe try making us actually care about the dwarves. There were so many scenes in these movies where I just didn't care at all about what was going on and who it was happening to.

Overall, I think the movies were quite awful and I doubt I'll ever willingly watch them again.
 

Nazulu

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Jun 5, 2008
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I watched the first Hobbit and cringed at the humour and terrible use of CGI, and everything else felt like a wash (except the escape scene in the troll lair). The second I only saw a bit of in the cinema because the odd lighting started to give me a headache and I just had to leave. And that's it! Never cared to finish it.
 

JayRPG

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Nods Respectfully Towards You said:
Whatislove said:
Tolkien did the Hobbit first and didn't really create or flesh out his universe until he was well into the LotR - Jackson on the other hand adapted LotR first, if Jackson stayed totally faithful to the Hobbit book it just would have been un-watchable as a complete set of movies, you could not call it a lord of the rings prequel.
That's the problem, the Hobbit never should have been a "prequel" to the Lord of the Rings. It's just a self contained story set in the same universe that takes place earlier chronologically. Sure, there's a few plot threads in the Hobbit that carry on into Lord of the Rings or are hinted at but it could never be considered a straight up prequel.
That was Tolkien's choice though, he went back and rewrote the Bilbo/Gollum chapter so it better fit as a LotR prequel, he went back and changed names, references, phrases, and lines of dialogue to better fit in to his broader universe. It is a prequel, whether we like it or not.

Jackson probably would have preferred to simply make his own prequel trilogy (or possibly even sequel/silmarillion) called something else, using parts from the broader universe (as he sneakily did in the hobbit trilogy anyway) but the only thing he had license to use was the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

I hated things (tauriel/kili love story, Alfrid), I loved things (Thingol -> Thranduil adaption, Dol guldur) but overall I feel he did pretty well all things considered.
 

infohippie

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Oct 1, 2009
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As a long-time fan of the book... I actually enjoyed the films. I expected them to take liberties with the source material, that's a given. Some parts were a little cringeworthy, like the long-extended and pointlessly action-filled barrel escape, but on the whole I quite liked them. They were padded a bit too much though, they overall story could have been trimmed of some unnecessary fat and would have then made for two great movies instead of three that were merely good.
 

MHR

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Sublime from start to finish.

I didn't know the stupid romances weren't a part of the book. I suppose they added in the romance to keep the woman demographic interested? Because none of the men I know wanted that shit in there.

Legolas. Again. When he defied physics and surfed on an elephant, I thought that was the worst it was going to get, then we had to see him all over 2 and 3 when he wasn't even so much in the books. He's like a showboater in a football game, some turds think it's great, but nobody really wants to see that.

Real makeup orcs were more awesome. CGI is nice, but not as cool.

Other than that, the movies were fantastic. Haters are always gonna find a way to hate on something.
 

Random Argument Man

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May 21, 2008
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I liked the first film. It had a good set-up for an adventure and really made me interested?. Although, CGI orcs look more cartoony than their older counterpart.

And then the second movie ended with a cliffhanger that really didn't help the overhaul story?.and it had Legolas. Legolas didn't need to be there! You could've just made the dwarves more awesome and distinct. Most dwarves didn't had much of a character to begin with.


The third movie's intro should've been the second's ending. I waited a year just for a plot point that was solved in the first 30 minutes. Why not add those 30 minutes in the second movie instead?
 

Kungfu_Teddybear

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Despite the differences from the book I enjoyed them, for the most part. I mean, the love triangle between Tauriel, Legolas and Kili was pointless. And there was some utterly ridiculous scenes, for example, Legolas completely ignoring how physics works and hopping from rock to rock up a collapsing bridge. But overall I enjoyed them.
 

Callate

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I think they gradually became more and more underwhelming, until the final entry- which tried the hardest to get by on spectacle, and had the smallest shred of actual book to work with- kind of fell apart. I was hoping at the very least to get some resolution as to how Legolas went from being kind of a dick to half the world's favorite character in the LotR trilogy, but even that was lacking. Yeah, yeah, rejected in love, turned your back on your father- if the character came out a blood-thirsty monster, or with split-personality disorder, it would be about as narratively credible.

In some ways, I think the desperate attempts to parallel the arc of LotR were the biggest failings. Gandalf leaves to confront Saruman becomes Gandalf leaving to confront the Necromancer. Got a love triangle here? Must have a love triangle there. The Ring corrupts everyone it touches? Sure, the Arkenstone can do that, too. So what if the Battle of Five Armies takes up maybe a dozen pages of the book; we can stretch that into a Helm's Deep-style protracted battle, right?

Now, don't get me wrong. The movies had their moments, and for all the rather broad and clumsy maneuverings of the script, I was willing to give it a certain amount of slack because I felt it was sincerely trying to entertain and charm me, not just sell a bunch of toys. I'm not sorry I saw it. But I don't think back on it with wonder like I did with LotR. There weren't the kind of giddy moments I had in those movies, like Gandalf the White driving Saruman's influence out of Théoden, or Arwen defeating the Ringwraiths, or Legolas single-handedly bringing down the oliphant. I'm not rushing out to buy the director's cut. Even my eleven-year-old daughter walked out of the last Hobbit movie unimpressed.
 

Therumancer

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My basic attitude is that "The Hobbit" trilogy was kind of a mess, and didn't need to be split into three movies. Also Peter Jackson learned how to use dwarves in a fight scene far too late in his career to really redeem himself, since he turned Gimli into a joke in "Lord Of The Rings" and largely had the dwarves bumbling around through the first two Hobbit movies, where yes they are defeated in most of those places, but in the cases where there was a decent fight scene they had Legolas coming into do the action when the dwarves should have been doing their own fighting and establishing their credentials more before the third movie which is really the only place where they seemed remotely competent.

Legolas being present mostly annoyed me because he seemed to have been inserted so the director could have action scenes before he really got his head around the concept of the dwarven warrior properly, after all Legolas handled most of the fighting during the whole second movie alongside his newly created love interest. That said there was no real reason NOT to have him in the third movie because he is after all the prince of the wood elves and pretty much immortal. Had Tolkien written things in a different order himself he might have given Legolas a bigger role in The Hobbit. That said a few scenes of him kicking butt alongside the elves would have been sufficient.

The whole battle between The White Council and The Necromancer in Mirkwood was actually mentioned, as well as how there were some alarming events, Tolkien wasn't big on action, and hadn't formed his entire later plot though so it was neither well described or that meaningful. As a way of padding out the movie and tying it to the LoTR trilogy if wasn't badly done. It also helps drive home how Saruman's betrayal was such a huge, and surprising, blow.

To be honest one thing I did like about the trilogy is I can now both better visualize hobbit rock throwing advantage and what it might look like to see a dwarf riding a goat up a mountain. These were mentioned, and part of PnP RPG lore for a long time, but always somehow raised an eyebrow. Even after Warcraft where I rode goats I still had trouble envisioning staying on one while it was jumping around on rocks.... it was at least shown convincingly for pure fantasy. I believe there was at one point an entire Halfling kit or subclass based around rock throwing that could do obnoxious damage, and I'm still not quite buying that one, at least someone had the audacity to actually show a hobbit killing orcs by pitching stones. In one edition of AD&D (it was probably second) there was a way for a Halfling to throw rocks with the same RoF as darts (4 per action) and they could gain strength damage bonuses for thrown weapons and dex advantages, and then something like a racial and class/kit based bonus of like +10 damage when you started adding in modifiers for specializations, attributes, etc... meaning that you'd have a hobbit rapidly getting to the point where anything without a deeply negative AC was a guaranteed strike and a minimum damage output of 88 points of damage per round (8 attacks for dual wielding thrown stones, 4 RoF with each hand, minimum damage roll of 1 +10 damage. if all 8 attacks hit that's 88 damage). Given that a beefy dragon might have 128 hit points by the same rules this would nearly kill it, and smaller ones would be obliterated. For Smaug all you'd need is to have the Hobbiton pebble pitching league stop by to use him for target practice.... a good 20 members show up and he's dead, and threatening armies would go down quicker than someone inventing the Uzi... but I'm rambling, nobody cares about ancient munchkin AD&D tales. The point is mostly I thought it was cool because I still remember as a DM having to veto character builds where people wanted to drop a bunch of orcs in a round or two with nothing but thrown rocks and could justify it by the books.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Jan 24, 2009
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It was like a 5-year old trying to fit into a 30-year old's shoes. Overly bloated and protracted, save perhaps for the second film. The first film would probably be a 6/10 if I'm being very generous. There's not much I remember from it, save for the awful CG Goblin King, Gollum and the ridiculously long prologue segment (seriously, I feel that bit was longer than the LOTR prologue). The second film I actually liked a whole lot, but I haven't seen it since I saw it in theaters. Smaug was quite great and the movie had a lot more momentum to it.

Just a shame the third one flushed it all down the drain. It was an awkwardly paced, cheesy, messy retread of Return of the King. Who else was genuinely pissed off that they made what should have been the climax of the second film the first 10 minutes of the third just to get a sequel hook? I didn't really care for any of the characters, I could almost see the button prompts in the video game quicktime events that were Legolas' action scenes, the forced romance was more excruciating than ever, the action scenes had no tension or danger to them whatsoever, huge chunks felt like they were straight copypasted from Return of the King and the ending only highlighted how overblown the whole adventure was: in the end, Bilbo just goes home after all those adventures.

It should have been 2 100-minute movies. If someone edits them down to that, I'd probably check it out. As they stand now I'll never watch them again.
 

SecondPrize

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Tolkien's one-note 'heroic' characters serve to offset the point that it's the little guys in his stories who do all of the heavy lifting. Jackson takes as much of the hobbit out of The Hobbit as he can and puts in elven ninjas instead. The Hobbit is a story with heart and Jackson's movies are soulless.
 

hermes

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They were okkk-ish.

Not bad, just not great. The original trilogy was so crammed with content I couldn't wait to see some of the removed material.
These ones were so full of filler that I couldn't wait to see a single movie made out of the three. It felt like nothing was left in the cutting floor, absolutely nothing. They even added things that made little sense, felt cheap or added nothing to make it a trilogy and tie it to the original trilogy.

And the ending of that second movie. That ending... The second movie would have been a lot better if it had three acts, instead of 25 and then closing it a year later.