Pilots(job)

[sneakypenguin]

So I'm biased cause its my job but I'm curious why so many don't seem to want to be one. My company is paying 40 grand newhire bonuses they give us 4grand for referring people and we are still net losing pilots. There just isn't the supply.

You can go from zero to airlines in 2 years but theres just no interest. People spend 150grand to be lawyers be in school for 7-8 years to get out with limited job opportunities and work 65 hr weeks. Or you could spend 25-35grand and be flying a jet in 2 years. It pays generally well, and has some prestige but we are having to resort to foreign pilots to fill the void.

So escapist why do you not want to control 40 tons of glass cockpit, 600mph, beast at 6 miles above the earth as a job?

 

[SupahEwok]

I dunno, sounds pretty sweet to me. I'd say it's the lack of awareness for avenues of education that don't involve college; my own intended field that I'm studying for is a weird mix of white collar management and blue collar work, and the average age of a fully licensed practicioner is way over 50, despite most folks interested in being qualified can easily be so by their mid-30s. Just not enough young people aware that the trade exists, or that it's something to consider compared to the ideal of the 4 year degree office worker career that's been shoved down their throats their whole lives (and that more and more is becoming harder to attain and keep).

 

[Catfood220]

So escapist why do you not want to control 40 tons of glass cockpit, 600mph, beast at 6 miles above the earth as a job?

Personally, the terrified screams of everyone on board as the plane fell from the sky would get really annoying pretty quickly.

Also, I think you need good maths skills for something like being a pilot, I suck at maths.

 

[Kyrian007]

I do. I have always wanted to be a pilot. I went to talk to my local Air Force recruiter when I was 16 with the intention of spending a few years in the military and then leaving when my time was up to be a commercial pilot. He looked at my medical history, and saw that I had a seizure (while playing Bionic Commando) and was diagnosed with epilepsy when I was 11. I'd had no seizures since, but he said I could not serve. He also said that I could never get a pilot's license.

Now, there are ways a properly medicated epileptic CAN get a pilot's license. So briefly my dreams were uncrushed. However I have since been told that I could never fly commercially (no one would insure me to fly cargo, let alone passengers,) I couldn't even rent a plane to fly, and many airfields could refuse to certify a flight plan for me. So the only use I could possibly get out of getting a pilot's license... is if I was rich enough to own my own plane, and own any airfield I wished to take off and/or land at.

So, screw that.

 

[Squilookle]

If Qantas still flew Lockheed Constellations I'd think about it.

It's really because I want a job that I can leave in the afternoon, and be back in my own home and my own bed each night. Maybe if you signed up with an Airline and they paid for your training it'd be more attractive, but as it is... nah.

Spoiler: Also this is a Connie. How could you not want to fly that...

 

[JoJo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a pilot you must spend a lot of time away from home, right? It's not a normal 9 to 5 job, at least. A lot of people are going to want something where they can return to their home and family every evening. I suspect the responsibility of so many lives in your hands would be too stressful for many people to handle on a day-to-day basis.

Personally, one of the reasons I went into my field (tax acccounting) is that once I'm qualified and have a few years under my belt, I could choose to go freelance and start my own business. The freedom to set my own hours, and to combine tax work with other pursuits such as investing, travelling, raising kids, writing fiction (not necessarily in that order) appeals to me very much. Couldn't really run my own airline.

 

[bluegate]

Being a pilot sounds like lots of fun, but it'd put too much pressure on me to be honest. I like jobs where a mistake doesn't potentially result in me and 150 other people dying.

 

[stroopwafel]

No, I hate flying already not b/c I find it scary or anything but just b/c passenger aircraft is like an overly crammed flying bus with all of the charm. Where the air is dry and disgusting with all those people coughing and peculiar people smells coming from everywhere. I know pilots are in their own cabin but being responsible for take-off and landing while the rest is done on auto-pilot also sounds pretty boring. As long as human pilots are still necessary in the first place if you figure the difficult tasks fully automated drones can do. I also value my free time more than anything so any trade-off definitely isn't worth it.

Military jets however is an entirely different story. Not as a career mind you(I'm too old anyway) but it would be a dream to know what it is like to fly in such a jet. Unfortunately as a civilian your options are really limited. There are companies who offer the experience to fly a Mig in Russia but it's really expensive, like 13 - 17000 euros for an hour. I believe the most expensive one you get to travel on a ballistic course 24 km into the stratosphere to the edge of space, as you actually get to see the curvature of the earth. That must be un-be-lievable. Though, apparently Russia closed off the stratosphere for now.

But yeah, you actually get to control the jet yourself as well and an experienced Russian fighter pilot makes some impressive maneuvers as you fly through the sound barrier. Sounds like something you'll never forget. Company who organizes the trip to fly a Mig-29 Fulcrum has a cool promo:

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I'm studying to for my pilot license now.

But for myself. In the insurance business, though, I know that you guys have to get special insurance due to... Well, the falling and dying thing.

Hell, I'm lucky. There's a two year review of your lifestyle choices before you're considered a passable insurance risk. If the company found out that I was studying to become a pilot before then, they might have rejected me out being an adverse risk.

But if you could regale us with some of your stories in becoming a pilot, it might help a lot of us coughmecough

 

[Xprimentyl]

Correct me if I?m wrong, (and if there?s a God, I?m not,) but I assume pilots require quite a bit of certification and training most people lack or can?t afford to pursue. I?d imagine aviation at any level, from hobby to career focused, requires certain up front capital and accesses that aren?t generally conducive to everyone with an inkling of interest. That, and while I think fears of flying has stemmed over the years, I think the idea of rolling those dice on a consistent basis, multiple times a day for your job, might be enough to give even the most rational person pause. I?ve no fear of flying, but all it takes is a bit of turbulence or unexpected ?fasten seatbelt? light to remind me that hurling through the air at 500 mph, 30,000 feet above the ground is NOT a natural ability man possesses; it?s in fact an amazing feat, nigh miracle, and when it goes wrong, it goes WRONG, and I must respect and appreciate it. I couldn?t imagine living with that realization as my day-to-day job.

 

[stroopwafel]

Correct me if I?m wrong, (and if there?s a God, I?m not,) but I assume pilots require quite a bit of certification and training most people lack or can?t afford to pursue. I?d imagine aviation at any level, from hobby to career focused, requires certain up front capital and accesses that aren?t generally conducive to everyone with an inkling of interest. That, and while I think fears of flying has stemmed over the years, I think the idea of rolling those dice on a consistent basis, multiple times a day for your job, might be enough to give even the most rational person pause. I?ve no fear of flying, but all it takes is a bit of turbulence or unexpected ?fasten seatbelt? light to remind me that hurling through the air at 500 mph, 30,000 feet above the ground is NOT a natural ability man possesses; it?s in fact an amazing feat, nigh miracle, and when it goes wrong, it goes WRONG, and I must respect and appreciate it. I couldn?t imagine living with that realization as my day-to-day job.

Well, driving to work for any pilot is probably more dangerous than flying the craft. Waaaaayyy more people die in car crashes than in planes. I guess with military jets there is always some risk(it is the nature of these jets) but it's mitigated by experience of the pilot. Still, everyday traffic remains way more dangerous. There are so many safety measures in aviation. It's not like you're flying an X-15.

I think if you're a pilot for passenger aircraft you are required to put in atleast a minimum amount of flying hours per year to keep your license, so even just maintaing your license is expensive if you're not doing it professionally. I guess obtaining a license for single engine propellor aircraft is doable for many people but this gets more expensive the more complex the plane. I believe license for a boeing can lead up to 100k. Not something you want to have as debt.

 

[Baffle]

No one wants to risk getting stuck in a room with Michael O'Leary.

 

[Xprimentyl]

SNIP.

Well, driving to work for any pilot is probably more dangerous than flying the craft. Waaaaayyy more people die in car crashes than in planes. I guess with military jets there is always some risk(it is the nature of these jets) but it's mitigated by experience of the pilot. Still, everyday traffic remains way more dangerous. There are so many safety measures in aviation. It's not like you're flying an X-15.

Yes, I?m aware of the old saying that traveling by plane is statistically safer than by motor vehicle, but despite the objectivity on their faces, the bias lies in which stats are presented. All crashes being equal, what?re the survival rates of car crashes and plane wrecks? Given the unfortunate choice (survival not certain, death not guaranteed,) which crash would you rather be in?... THAT?S my point. I?ll take my chances in a 60mph head-on with an air bag and four wheels under my ass over a 500pmh nosedive with 6 miles of air under me and the sounds of screaming and my own panicked breathing into an oxygen mask as the soundtrack to my near certain final moments. Not being dramatic, just pragmatic.

 

[Worgen]

If I hard heard about that kinda thing when I was taking flight lessons I would have been all over it, in fact I still might. Flying was a lot of fun.

 

[sneakypenguin]

So my attempt at an FAQ here.
Do I need to know math? Not really just basic math IE I have 9000lbs of fuel on board I burn 3000lbs an hour my flight is x hours long am I good to go.

Is it expensive? Yes and no, to get your flight instructor rating (typical entry point to career that you do for a year before going to airlines) your looking at 25000 to 50000 depending on if you go to a big school with expensive new equipment or not. Expensive yes but look at it like college and it might not be that expensive.

Is it safe? Yes there is so much redundancy in aviation. Just to get fuel to the engines in my current plane there are 6 electric fuel pumps (any 1 is enough) and 2 mechanical ones on the engine, the engine will naturally pull fuel on their own as long as your below 37000 feet. Those electric pumps run off two separate electrical busses. Same thing for flight controls everything has a backup to the backup.

Is it high pressure? Yes and no. The responsibility level is high but your working with a highly qualified crew, you've done it a million times before and you have standards and procedures you follow for everything. Even when I was flight instructing new pilots teaching ppl to land I could relax.

Aren't you gone from home alot? Yes? So our contract mandates a minimum 12 days off a month, if your good at bidding you can get 18 days off a month. A typical month might be 4 day trips followed by 3 off days. You can manipulate schedules to get a lot of paid time off. I can pick a schedule that overlaps my vacation on either end and both those trips have to be dropped so instead of a week off paid I get 2 cause those dropped trips are pay protected. Your gone from home alot but your also off a lot more than a traditional job. That also varies depending on how junior you are etc. My schedule is less nice than my uncle. I might do 4 different flights in a day for 4 days straight. My uncle flys chicago to europe one day, has one day to acclimate (rest rules) then one flight back but hes been flying for 30 yrs vs my 4 lol.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

So my attempt at an FAQ here.
Do I need to know math? Not really just basic math IE I have 9000lbs of fuel on board I burn 3000lbs an hour my flight is x hours long am I good to go.

Is it expensive? Yes and no, to get your flight instructor rating (typical entry point to career that you do for a year before going to airlines) your looking at 25000 to 50000 depending on if you go to a big school with expensive new equipment or not. Expensive yes but look at it like college and it might not be that expensive.

Is it safe? Yes there is so much redundancy in aviation. Just to get fuel to the engines in my current plane there are 6 electric fuel pumps (any 1 is enough) and 2 mechanical ones on the engine, the engine will naturally pull fuel on their own as long as your below 37000 feet. Those electric pumps run off two separate electrical busses. Same thing for flight controls everything has a backup to the backup.

Is it high pressure? Yes and no. The responsibility level is high but your working with a highly qualified crew, you've done it a million times before and you have standards and procedures you follow for everything. Even when I was flight instructing new pilots teaching ppl to land I could relax.

Aren't you gone from home alot? Yes? So our contract mandates a minimum 12 days off a month, if your good at bidding you can get 18 days off a month. A typical month might be 4 day trips followed by 3 off days. You can manipulate schedules to get a lot of paid time off. I can pick a schedule that overlaps my vacation on either end and both those trips have to be dropped so instead of a week off paid I get 2 cause those dropped trips are pay protected. Your gone from home alot but your also off a lot more than a traditional job. That also varies depending on how junior you are etc. My schedule is less nice than my uncle. I might do 4 different flights in a day for 4 days straight. My uncle flys chicago to europe one day, has one day to acclimate (rest rules) then one flight back but hes been flying for 30 yrs vs my 4 lol.

... Sir, you are winning me over... And making me regret already purchasing Gleim Private Pilot Prep Course.

 

[sneakypenguin]

snip

I think if you're a pilot for passenger aircraft you are required to put in atleast a minimum amount of flying hours per year to keep your license, so even just maintaing your license is expensive if you're not doing it professionally. I guess obtaining a license for single engine propellor aircraft is doable for many people but this gets more expensive the more complex the plane. I believe license for a boeing can lead up to 100k. Not something you want to have as debt.

So when your flying commercial there are training and recurrent stuff you have to do but 100% of companies pay for 100% of that. You don't even have to do an initial type rating anymore. Before my airline I had never flown a jet they paid for my 3 months of schooling on it, paid for my 4 star hotel for 3 months, and gave me salary+ a sign on bonus. That is standard everywhere.

You could technically pay someone like flight safety international to do a type rating but I think the last company that required a type rating to be hired was southwest and they dropped that at least a decade ago. Any employer is going to pay for any type you need.
Some business jet companies might say something like applicant should have 2500 pic time and g650 type rating preferred but even then if your otherwise qualified they'll put you through training .

 

[sneakypenguin]

So a note. In aviation everything is not all sunshine and roses. when times are good (like now with all the mandatory retirements coming up for the next 10 years) careers go smoothly. An airline going bankrupt or an industry wide event(9/11) can fuck you over hard. Airlines are union if you leave one and go to another you start as a first officer low guy on the totem pole. If theres a crash wages are going down etc.

 

[Xprimentyl]

So when your flying commercial there are training and recurrent stuff you have to do but 100% of companies pay for 100% of that. You don't even have to do an initial type rating anymore. Before my airline I had never flown a jet they paid for my 3 months of schooling on it, paid for my 4 star hotel for 3 months, and gave me salary+ a sign on bonus. That is standard everywhere.

Which explains why a double vodka tonic in the terminal costs $25 and a ticket home is a quarter-billion dollars and a pint of blood from my as-yet unconceived first born?

He?s right, folks; we?re on the wrong end of this raw deal!! PILOT?S LICENSES FOR EVERYBODY!!

 

[sneakypenguin]

snip

But if you could regale us with some of your stories in becoming a pilot, it might help a lot of us coughmecough

So I learned to fly after college, I was working in sales didn't care for it and finally made enough money I could pay for flying without loans. I joined a flying club out of a little grass airfield and got my private in a cessna 150 aerobat. Flew privately for fun for 2 years then decided to make a career out of it. I got my instrument rating ( probably the hardest book knowledge wise) which allows you to fly in clouds. I can fly one place to another only seeing the ground in the first and last 15 seconds of flight(less now in the jet ) and that rating is all about how to do that. Got my commercial single engine in the classic piper arrow, and did my cfi training right after. I then moved to florida for 10 months working as a flight instructor doing flight screening for the navy and marines. Taught a lot of people and finished getting the required 1500 hours to get my airline transport license.

FLight instructing was fun. Lot of experience built there. One thing I'd give the USA props for is the 1500hr rule to fly airlines. All these Asian and European airlines you can get hired at 250hrs which is sketchy AF. After I got my time in I applied at some regionals and now work for a united express carrier. Finishing up sims and I hit the line in april.

I miss flight instructing but don't miss sweating my ass off in a non airconditiond plane and getting only 25$ an hour.