Piracy is harmless?

[The Lunatic]

If you had absolutely no intention of buying it, I can't see the harm really.


I imagine the big budget companies see it very differently, but, eh, that's life.

The rich can't be content with just being rich.

 

[spinFX]

The reason I don't feel bad when I pirate movies is this; I would eventually see it on the television without ever buying the movie, so I haven't damaged anything, as I wouldn't buy it anyways.

But the broadcasters have paid for it and you pay your TV license to watch it.

Not to mention the advertising... Geekosaurus that argument is terrible.

EDIT: CRAP I was supposed to say "Nincompoop that argument is terrible".

 

[oktalist]

If everyone pirated games, everyone would be out of business and then there would be no more games.

And if everyone ate nothing but cake, we'd all get malnutrition and die. But that's never going to happen, so why mention it?

 

[gurall200]

If you're making music solely for making money, you need to re-evaluate your career. Actually, don't. People pick up on that pretty quick, as it effects the quality. They won't be buying your music anyway.

Making music for yourself and if you want, the enjoyment of others, is the way it should be done. Getting paid to do it is the perk.

that's entirely subjective, pop music in general shouldn't be popular if that we're always true, nor the sex pistols for that matter.

Instruments cost money. Microphones are optional(acoustic), and expensive studio equipment is completely unnecessary for a true musician that isn't in it for the money. You don't even really need an instrument. Ever heard of a barbershop quartet? So, you don't actually need any of it.

Sure, you don't need a car, you can walk everywhere, need to travel across the country, start walking, just the same, sure you could start a barbershop quartet, you might enjoy, good for you, the problem there is you can't make any money, is that a tad capitalistic, yes, but if your going on stage, making jack squat, you can enjoy it all you want, but there is going to come a point where you can't keep going, or it will become extremely difficult to do so, go look up Anvil, a band who had barely enough to get booked for a recording after being around for 15 years (had to take a loan).

By the way; Music is just like movies and games. A store buys the albums and stocks them, marks up the price, and makes a profit from them. When a person buys the music from a store, the store profits, not the record company or the artist. They made money off the initial sale to the store and get nothing for the album being sold in the store.

If you're selling your music from the back of your car, you could potentially be affected directly.

So when happens when the stores stop buying new copies when the stores can't sell copies of the album, furthermore, if your selling music from the back of your car, I don't think many people are going to pirate your music (unless their complete dickish assholes).

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

@secretsantaone

Valve isn't pirated from cause typically you need steam to play their games. Granted, there are steam cracks but they are typically squashed cause they're easily identified in the steam system.

Not really the games are repacked without steam so you get all SP content without the hassle of steam.

Can You play online with those games?

No it has the steam stuff completely removed, its how I used to do HL2 before I broke down to pressure and got the orange box and installed and registered for steam. LOL

 

[Super Toast]

-snippity-

You're freaking kidding right? How would you like it someone robbed you blind because 'You have enough stuff'? That's seriously the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

 

[BrassButtons]

The 'stifling creativity' bit is like this: No idea is created in a vacuum. None. We in our entirety as people are built from ancestrally derived biology and the two elements of society; culture (what we know) and social structure (what we have made to regulate ourselves).
Yet copyright says that we CAN own an idea as if it came from thin air, as if we need not credit its sources, and allow it to be a source for more ideas.

Hmm, I see your point. OK, since I'm part of society, and all ideas are derived from society, that makes me co-creator to every idea ever. So I deserve part of the payments, right?

Did a little bit of research (ok that's a lie--I shamelessly let my friend do all the legwork) and your argument that "The various ages of man happened without copyright just fine" isn't entirely accurate. Copyright laws have been around since at least 1709 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright_law], so this isn't some new thing. It's also interesting to note that the goal of the US Copyright Office is to "promote creativity in society" [http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1a.html].

 

[-Samurai-]

By the way; Music is just like movies and games. A store buys the albums and stocks them, marks up the price, and makes a profit from them. When a person buys the music from a store, the store profits, not the record company or the artist. They made money off the initial sale to the store and get nothing for the album being sold in the store.

If you're selling your music from the back of your car, you could potentially be affected directly.

So when happens when the stores stop buying new copies when the stores can't sell copies of the album, furthermore, if your selling music from the back of your car, I don't think many people are going to pirate your music (unless their complete dickish assholes).

Simple; The store loses out on money, not the artist or record label.

Musicians are under a contract. They get paid wether the record company ships out 8 million CDs or 8 CDs. The record company is contractually obligated to pay them the amount they agreed on when the artist was signed.

More than half of an artists revenue comes from merchandise and ticket sales for live shows. The record company pays for the equipment for the live shows and rents the venue. They also get money from merchandise and concerts.

While album sales bring in ridiculous amounts of money, they're just a small part of where the money comes from.

The record companies are just pissed that they're making a little less in record sales than they used to(which is attributed to more than piracy. There's the current state of the economy, and the boom of digital distribution. CDs are a dying format.). They jumped on the anti-piracy bandwagon when they saw the film and video game industry doing it.

I'm, not advocating piracy at all. I'm just tired of people being against it for completely untrue reasons. If you're going to be anti-something, make sure you've got your facts straight.(This isn't aimed at specifically at you).

Piracy isn't killing the music industry, the movie industry, or the video game industry. It isn't even denting their profits. The economy and digital distribution are killing the current format. They just need to evolve with the rest of the world.

Anti-piracy is just the flavor of the month. Soon there will be a new thing to be against, and we can all argue about that.

 

[HippySecond]

Hah! Look what it did to the PSP

 

[Apretentiousname]

Piracy brings baby seals back to life.

 

[Colonel Alzheimer's]

Also, the argument that developers lose money from piracy is ridiculous. Companies such as Gamestop, Wal-mart, Best Buy, or whoever stocks these games, have bought them from the developers. Any sale after that goes to the store you bought it from, not to the developers. The development company has already been paid for each copy out on the shelf.

What you're hurting is the store that carries the games. They have purchased the games and raised them to the high prices we all hate(they have to profit from the sale. If they sold them for what they bought them for, they would just break even).

Uhh, this is completely wrong. Here's the scenario without piracy
Store A buys 15 copies of Game A from Developer A. Store A sells out of copies. Store A then buys more copies of Game A from Developer A.
If the game gets pirated, this is the scenario:
Store A buys 15 copies of Game A from Developer A. Store does not sell out of copies due to piracy. Store A does not buy more copies of Game A from developer A.
See the difference?

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

Hmmm, We have seen this moral/ethical quandary arise several times now, haven't we?

So far as I can tell, those who pirate will not be stopping, and those who are making bundles of money each year will not stop complaining about the fact.

The question I would ask is, what will change due to these pressures? We have seen some attempts to modify the format and protections of media. We have seen shifts in where companies invest their interests, and marketing campaigns to slow the behaviors.

What do we see next?

 

[twasdfzxcv]

Nothing done is ever harmless, so let's just get that out of the way. The question is, in what situation piracy, or more correctly, copyright violation, does more good then harm. One of these situation is the spreading of information. When one has no mean of accessing the copyrighted material, then copying the material for free does more good to the original creator then the harm it brings. However when there's adequate means and ways for one to get said material, then these illegal copyright start to become more harmful than the benefit it reaps.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Piracy would kill small development studios, why hell if people pirated Super Mario before it was super popular we'd probably never be able to enjoy half the games that Nintendo makes, the point I'm trying to make is that piracy is a problem for developers and publishers in their infancy, before they gain the money to prosecute and prevent piracy. Remember the WoW private server admin who got sued for about 80 million, back when blizzard made Warcraft if you told them that they'd be making that much money they'd laugh. Piracy is damn near unavoidable, most people don't even do it for the money, in all likely hood they just do it so they can feel superior to the original programmers, much like we flaunt our so-called superiority over the "Casual Gamer".

 

[-Samurai-]

Also, the argument that developers lose money from piracy is ridiculous. Companies such as Gamestop, Wal-mart, Best Buy, or whoever stocks these games, have bought them from the developers. Any sale after that goes to the store you bought it from, not to the developers. The development company has already been paid for each copy out on the shelf.

What you're hurting is the store that carries the games. They have purchased the games and raised them to the high prices we all hate(they have to profit from the sale. If they sold them for what they bought them for, they would just break even).

Uhh, this is completely wrong. Here's the scenario without piracy
Store A buys 15 copies of Game A from Developer A. Store A sells out of copies. Store A then buys more copies of Game A from Developer A.
If the game gets pirated, this is the scenario:
Store A buys 15 copies of Game A from Developer A. Store does not sell out of copies due to piracy. Store A does not buy more copies of Game A from developer A.
See the difference?

You just reinforced what I've said. The store is losing money, not the developer. The developer was already paid for the 15 copies.

What happens if the game flops and the store can't sell its 15 copies? The same thing that happens when people pirate instead of buying; The store loses the money it paid for its copies and doesn't order more.

Either way, the developer isn't losing money, the store is.

I'm not saying that the store losing money is better than the developer losing money. I'm just trying to make people understand that the "piracy hurts the developer" argument isn't true.

As I've said before; Piracy isn't even denting the profit developers are making. They're lying about their numbers to gain sympathy for their cause. You can't measure what piracy does to a developer.

 

[Signa]

The OP argument is crap. Personally, I believe in the freedom of information, and all games, movies and music are essentially information. I also believe that if you are a creator of information that benefits people, you should be compensated. So in other words, if you are a responsible consumer of information, you should repay those who benefited you. It should be OK to share that information with people because it helped you in some way, and you feel like spreading the word, but if those people you shared it with also used the information to their benefit, then they too need to compensate the original creator.

Now what is undeniably wrong is paying some one else for that information who didn't create it. That's just plain stealing.

 

[IzisviAziria]

I pirate music on purpose. The amount that the artists get off of albums they sell is pathetic, the record companies get most of it.

Okay, but what about indie and non-labelled musicians? Oh no, oh course you're not hurting us. Believe it or not, we don't need any money. We write music simply for your enjoyment -- it's not like it's our job to make money off of you.

And just for your information, all those instruments, microphones, and expensive studio setups are a joke. We don't actually need any of that stuff in order to make music. Also, distribution is completely free, it doesn't cost anything to get a barcode, and it doesn't cost anything to get music on iTunes.

And yes, that was all sarcasm.

I don't listen to your music. I never supported it in the first place. I don't buy OR pirate your music. I am completely, 100% unattached to your indie/unlabelled music. So I'm terribly sorry, but you were never going to get any of my money anyway.

No, none of that was sarcasm.

*edit* I like how you left out the bit about supporting artists by going to their shows when you quoted me. Sorta gives it the impression that I don't support music in any monetary way. Cute. I recently went to see Tool live. The price of the ticket was more than it would cost to purchase their entire discography. And the cut they got of it was larger than if I had purchased their entire discography.

 

[Socius]

Piracy is good for the enviorment and awesome!
it's communism in pracsis that actually works perfectly!
even the musicans still earn plenty of money thanks to tours etc.
I do however buy LP because they're even more awesome than mp3 files.
but I go both ways.

When it comes to games and movies?
well as long as we have this blasted capitalistic system I guess it will count as stealing.
but hey, It's still awesome. oh and seriously? "you wouldn't download a car!"?
screw you!... I would if was possible.

I'm not sure what you think communism is, but thats not communism in practice.

if that's what you'd like to believe Ill let you do that. ;D
but even if it's not 100% the goal, it's closer than most things achieved.
and it proves that in the end, people would like marxistian society.

Today oil and gas are what drives the worlds machinery, but just like we can change that to a better more healthy power source, so can we also change that wich drives the world society.
In the communistic society there is no money, people work as usual but instead of getting paid with money they get paid with services. free school, hospital food and music.

so don't try to tell me what communism is, after all I am a status member of the norwegian communist party. but anyways, thank you for giving me a chance to explain this.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I would offer you a rebuttal, but that is basically such an idealized, and hopeful scenario it should be obvious that its just a wishful dream. The publishers are not magically holding back indy studios and stifling creativity. You would find the developers doing the same things you complain about the publishers doing should all the publishers magically cease to exist.

Actually, publishers ARE holding back indie studios. I've already explained why. Due to aggressive advertisement indie games barely get any exposure. This means that quality games tend to be pushed to the back whilst "bigger" titles are always on top due to advertisements.

I've also already explained how the "blockbuster" way of making games would be gone. Giving that there are no publishers to speak of any attempt at creating a blockbuster game will be stifled due to not having the ability to advertise. Blockbuster games are based on ads. The basis is that you'll overrun the market with them and basically turn the game into the "flavor of the year". Not only that but giving that advertising would be based solely on word of mouth lower quality games would be pushed to the back whilst higher quality ones will always be on the top shelf.

 

[Geekosaurus]

The reason I don't feel bad when I pirate movies is this; I would eventually see it on the television without ever buying the movie, so I haven't damaged anything, as I wouldn't buy it anyways.

But the broadcasters have paid for it and you pay your TV license to watch it.

Not to mention the advertising... Geekosaurus that argument is terrible.

I'm just pointing out that watching a film on television isn't free.