Piracy Vs TV

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I took this argument one step further in class once.


Say you buy a movie, then you invite two "friends" to your house to watch it. Say you keep doing this day after day for a total of 20.000 different people, about 24 a day (saying it's 120 minute movie).


That would be legal, 100% so. It'd also be identical to putting something up for download. What the technology allows us to do is bypass the inconvenience of having people traverse long distances (sometimes hundreds of thousands of miles) to watch the movie. All it is is a higher convenience method of sharing a movie or letting people watch your movie, doing something you already can do in a "physical" sense.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

What if you download a torrent with ads?

You mean the video in the torrent has the ads left in (from TV broadcast) rather than cut out?

Then I see no problem with that. You saw the ads, so that advertiser has had their fair shot at you, and thus the broadcast has been paid for. In fact, their ad has reached an unexpected audience so that's a bonus for them.

On the other hand, if you mean ads from the Torrent site, then those ads are just for the download server, not for the content on it.

Now, IF a company created sharable files with special ads built in and then freely distributed them on torrent sites with the ads built in, then that would be a great way to provide free, legal shows that were paid for by advertisers who would get their advertisements out to people who would then be forced to watch them. Hulu does the same thing with streaming - why not with torrent?

So long as I can watch the shows I want to watch, I don't mind ads. That's what they're there for, after all.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I took this argument one step further in class once.


Say you buy a movie, then you invite two "friends" to your house to watch it. Say you keep doing this day after day for a total of 20.000 different people, about 24 a day (saying it's 120 minute movie).


That would be legal, 100% so.

Actually thats not illegal.

We used to do that at my highschool, someone buys a DVD and we would pop it into the projector in the auditorium after school was out to watch a newly released DVD together.

Only gets sticky if you start to charge people for it, which we didnt.

Wait, wait. Showing it in the auditorium counts as "publicly displaying" it. That and just inviting people in your home for a "private showing" is 100% different as far as the law is concerned. The latter is indeed legal, too.


Now, of course I agree with you, both activities in spirit are the same, it's just that the second one is allowed by the law.


Also, the law takes issue with how many people see the film silmutaneously. That's also why having like a whole class of kids watching something would also be illegal. If you just do 2-people-showings though, that'd be fine and dandy.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

Now, IF a company created sharable files with special ads built in and then freely distributed them on torrent sites with the ads built in, then that would be a great way to provide free, legal shows that were paid for by advertisers who would get their advertisements out to people who would then be forced to watch them. Hulu does the same thing with streaming - why not with torrent?

Because the only thing that would be stopping people from tampering with the copy would be implied moral guilt? It's not like it's all that hard to just delete chunks of video.

The ads would be wiped and reuploaded as a "clean" version. There's little valid justification, as people have constantly proven they just want free stuff and as little hassle as possible about it.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Now, IF a company created sharable files with special ads built in and then freely distributed them on torrent sites with the ads built in, then that would be a great way to provide free, legal shows that were paid for by advertisers who would get their advertisements out to people who would then be forced to watch them. Hulu does the same thing with streaming - why not with torrent?

Because the only thing that would be stopping people from tampering with the copy would be implied moral guilt? It's not like it's all that hard to just delete chunks of video.

The ads would be wiped and reuploaded as a "clean" version. There's little valid justification, as people have constantly proven they just want free stuff and as little hassle as possible about it.

I wasn't just suggesting making it part of the video. Hence special ads (bolded above). I have no idea what the technology would be, but the company would have to make the ads intrinsic to the viewing - not something that could easily be cut out.

But, as you note, even the best systems could be circumvented. In which case... what is lost? There are already illegal versions of pretty much everything out there anyway. If they added legal ones, with paid advertisements, then there would at least be an option.

As to the moral issue - well, if there were free LEGAL videos with ads, and free Illegal but clean videos, I know I'd choose the free Legal ones just to avoid any possibility of getting chosen by the FBI to be made an example of. That has nothing to do with me feeling morally about the topic (I tend to think there are some serious issues with current copyright law) but rather my FEAR of being prosecuted by the law if I don't obey.

People want connivance and savings. Case in point - I subscribe to Hulu Plus because I want my TV on demand, for cheap (7 bucks a month), and legal. Hulu Plus offers me the best compromise of those things. Sure, I could watch my TV streaming on some pirate site, but there might be spyware there, and I might get into trouble (unlikely, but possible). Plus, I can watch Hulu Plus on my big screen TV and have my laptop free for other things. That's easily worth paying 7 bucks a month for.

If I could download torrents of TV shows I like that aren't on Hulu Plus (like Game of Thrones or Doctor Who) that were legal but had ads in them, I would jump at the chance. A lot of other people would to. And those who pirate then would STILL have been pirates without my theoretical service existing, and thus it wouldn't affect them. But some of the current pirates might be doing it for ease of use - they'd be converted to "paid customers".

Again, I have no idea how to implement it. But it does seem like an untapped market.

 

[T3hSource]

You know, admitting to using an ad blocker will get you slapped by the mods around here?

Thanks for reminding me that I have it installed, but I've never activated it [https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4481654/ScreenShots/AdOFF.png]. I don't even know why it's still installed tbh, I don't find ads annoying, unless they take 1/3rd of my screen, or have sound.

You aren't advocating Adblocking software are you? that's against the code of conduct man

Nope, as I'm writing this post, there still isn't an ad under it, however I do get occasional [https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4481654/ScreenShots/PROOF%21.png] ads from the site.

For clarification, here in Bulgaria we don't get a lot of internet ads, we just don't. I guess our demographic isn't researched by marketers, because we are simply too poor to market to, it wouldn't be worth throwing cash to attract customer that just can't afford a lot of things.

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

So I was pondering something as I lay awake in bed last night.
Say there is this really awesome show you like lets call it super happy fun time and the new episode is coming is coming out and you totally can't wait to see it. Unfortunately however it won't be making it to a TV channel in your country any time soon and the producers have provided no way to purchase it online.

So you find a torrent, It's the only way and you totally can't wait after all.
Now at this stage you have pretty clearly broken the law. However when it finally makes it to TV in your country you watch it again ads an all, its at this point you record it to your hard drive discarding the torrent copy for the much clearer TV copy in full wonderful 1080 P none the less.

Now at this point you still haven't paid anything for the show but you still have a free copy and a legal one at that.


Now obviously grabbing the torrent is an illegal action but in this scenario the eventual outcome is the same regardless of the download, you have a copy and you did not pay for it. All the torrent has done is allow you to view and procure the episode earlier than you otherwise would have.

I'm not fully sure of what you're trying to say, Just because it's the same show doesn't make it the same act. It's two different instances entirely. They're not directly related in any way. It's like saying (And forgive the crude analogy please) Someone goes out and has sex with a minor, then a week later has sex with someone of legal age. The outcome is still sex in both cases, but they are two different cases in general.

Now what happens if you want to lend or make a copy of your now legally owned episode for your gran. Are you now pirating, what about when you used to give her video copy?s of TV shows was that piracy?

I live in the U.K, so I'm not sure about the specifics of law wherever you're from but it's actually illegal to record most things without consent to do so. You would be breaking a law recording your 'clearer TV copy in full wonderful 1080P'
You would then technically be breaking a further law by distributing that product to your gran.
As silly as it seems, it's actually against the law to lend movies, games or even books to people, even for a short amount of time.

 

[RevRaptor]

I'm not fully sure of what you're trying to say, Just because it's the same show doesn't make it the same act. It's two different instances entirely. They're not directly related in any way. It's like saying (And forgive the crude analogy please) Someone goes out and has sex with a minor, then a week later has sex with someone of legal age. The outcome is still sex in both cases, but they are two different cases in general.

Now what happens if you want to lend or make a copy of your now legally owned episode for your gran. Are you now pirating, what about when you used to give her video copy?s of TV shows was that piracy?

I live in the U.K, so I'm not sure about the specifics of law wherever you're from but it's actually illegal to record most things without consent to do so. You would be breaking a law recording your 'clearer TV copy in full wonderful 1080P'
You would then technically be breaking a further law by distributing that product to your gran.
As silly as it seems, it's actually against the law to lend movies, games or even books to people, even for a short amount of time.

Yea I have friend in the UK, the piracy laws are a bit severe are they not.

I guess my point is, If you are not paying for it either way (In my country you are allowed to record TV shows) does it make any difference.
I'm not really sure your sex analogy works. In your case you are doing two separate and unrelated acts, you get sex twice actually. first time in a very clearly wrong way an then in a hopefully more legal way.

If I download a torrent then record the Tv show later all I'm really doing is taking a short cut to get the product sooner. We also have streaming Tv here too so any show that has aired is pretty easy to download anyway. Now of course torrents are illegal in most country?s but really it seems kind of like a non issue ya know. I mean seeing as I am not paying either way why should I have to wait on an antiqued and out of date TV system to give me the show.

To me it just seems the current laws and systems to provide media entertainment need a major shake up but and its a big but, the current law makers and politicians are way too technologically inept to make a positive change.
Hell one of our MP's gave a little speech warning us that piracy would lead to a skynet scenario. I kid you not he compared piracy to a robot apocalypse.

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

I'm not fully sure of what you're trying to say, Just because it's the same show doesn't make it the same act. It's two different instances entirely. They're not directly related in any way. It's like saying (And forgive the crude analogy please) Someone goes out and has sex with a minor, then a week later has sex with someone of legal age. The outcome is still sex in both cases, but they are two different cases in general.

Now what happens if you want to lend or make a copy of your now legally owned episode for your gran. Are you now pirating, what about when you used to give her video copy?s of TV shows was that piracy?

I live in the U.K, so I'm not sure about the specifics of law wherever you're from but it's actually illegal to record most things without consent to do so. You would be breaking a law recording your 'clearer TV copy in full wonderful 1080P'
You would then technically be breaking a further law by distributing that product to your gran.
As silly as it seems, it's actually against the law to lend movies, games or even books to people, even for a short amount of time.

Yea I have friend in the UK, the piracy laws are a bit severe are they not.

I guess my point is, If you are not paying for it either way (In my country you are allowed to record TV shows) does it make any difference.


I'm not really sure your sex analogy works. In your case you are doing two separate and unrelated acts, you get sex twice actually. first time in a very clearly wrong way an then in a hopefully more legal way.

If I download a torrent then record the Tv show later all I'm really doing is taking a short cut to get the product sooner. We also have streaming Tv here too so any show that has aired is pretty easy to download anyway. Now of course torrents are illegal in most country?s but really it seems kind of like a non issue ya know. I mean seeing as I am not paying either way why should I have to wait on an antiqued and out of date TV system to give me the show.

To me it just seems the current laws and systems to provide media entertainment need a major shake up but and its a big but, the current law makers and politicians are way too technologically inept to make a positive change.
Hell one of our MP's gave a little speech warning us that piracy would lead to a skynet scenario. I kid you not he compared piracy to a robot apocalypse.

They're strict yeah, but not really enforced. While they are technically illegal I don't think anyone has ever been charged for lending a book, or a CD. It would be kind of impossible to regulate anyway, and I really doubt any law enforcement would give a damn.

I still think my analogy holds up In the eyes of the law what you would be doing are also two separate and unrelated acts. I know what you're getting at and morally (and just basic common sense really) you're right, but the law is quite outdated (but is still, unfortunately, the law)

You're basically murdering an old relative for the inheritance, even though you'll be getting the inheritance when they die naturally anyway. I know it's an over the top example ha ha, but 'the end does not justify the means' as they say.

 

[RevRaptor]

LoL yea that analogy works better.
Still if granny?s now dead I don't have to worry about giving her any more movies and risking a fine, silver linings an all that.