"Pirating" a game that was never released in your country/language

[KiloFox]

The Fire Emblem game (and i love Fire Emblem), Fire Emblem: New Mysteries of the Emblem -Heroes of Light and Shadow- (phew long name) was released in Japan a year or two back. and has basically been denied a US release. I did a little looking (because the game sounds awesome but i'm not here to pimp a FE game)and found a Fan-Made Translation patch underway and pretty much almost complete (about 75% there it seems) now i'm just curious as to what you guys think.
1) the game was never, and foreseeably WILL never be released anywhere but Japan
2) i dunno about you, but i know *I* can't read Japanese. and i'm pretty sure many more fans of such games count as well
3) for a translation patch to work you HAVE to have a ROM copy (technically pirated) and an Emulator (at least to my knowledge... of course you can use a Flash Cart instead of an emulator but it's still basically the same)

now here's the discussion value
1) is it right, wrong, or morally grey to "pirate" such a game (note this encompasses ALL JP-only games, or on the flip side if you're Japanese, US/EU-only games)
and
2) from a more legal viewpoint, CAN you even pirate such a game? it was never released in your area, or language. and the only translation is from a fan patch that HAS to have a ROM to function.

i know that personally, i'm downloading the ROM and translation as soon as it's finished. but if Nintendo happens to finally decide after so long to release it in my area, i will GLADLY part with money to buy it legitimately.

 

[targren]

1) is it right, wrong, or morally grey to "pirate" such a game (note this encompasses ALL JP-only games, or on the flip side if you're Japanese, US/EU-only games)
and
2) from a more legal viewpoint, CAN you even pirate such a game? it was never released in your area, or language. and the only translation is from a fan patch that HAS to have a ROM to function.

#2 first. Yes, it is still illegal. Nintendo decided they don't want you to have the game, you're getting it anyway. That's the way the laws work in every Berne Convention country.

As for #1, right and wrong are personal matters of morality and ethics. No one can decide for you whether doing something is right or wrong. Personally, I wouldn't condemn it, but I generally treat the whole of copyright law with disdain anyway, since it's stopped serving its ostensible purpose and has become a gift to "big content" at the expense of the actual people.

 

[LiL'Tic]

if it wasnt released in ur country i dont rly see a problem with it its the developers fault for not releasing it in that country so they apparently dont care about ur money

 

[Vegosiux]

Nintendo decided they don't want you to have the game

Sorry but this "They don't want you to have their game" thing is BS. They didn't decide that any individual or group of infdividuals should be excluded from having their game, they just decided where they're going to sell them.

That doesn't mean they "don't want other people" to have the game, only that for some business related reason they decided to limit where it's being sold.

So please. If a game is region locked, don't come out with "well they don't want you to play it". Seriously. If it, legally, was about who they want to have their games, you'd be committing a felony by buying in Japan and taking it home with you.

It's not about "not wanting you to have it". It's about it not making enough of a profit in a local market and therefore not offering it on said market, but you can still have it if you find a way around it. They're not trying to prevent anyone from getting it.

 

[targren]

Nintendo decided they don't want you to have the game

Sorry but this "They don't want you to have their game" thing is BS. They didn't decide that any individual or group of infdividuals should be excluded from having their game, they just decided where they're going to sell them.

..snipped defensiveness...

The context of this thread is in the frame of reference of a single individual that wants the game and is not being offered it. You claim that it's not a decision to deny him the game, then go on to list reasons why they may make the decision to deny him the game (yes, by denying it to his entire country/region, they're denying it to him).

No one but you said it was personal. They opted not to make it available where he could purchase it, and made it so the only way to obtain the game would be illegal. That decision means that he cannot have the game without breaking the law, which is what I said.

As for the rest of it, put the pom-poms away. You're off-topic.

 

[Vegosiux]

No one but you said it was personal. They opted not to make it available where he could purchase it, and made it so the only way to obtain the game would be illegal.

They only opted not to make it available where it would be most convenient for him to purchase it.

 

[Lucem712]

I will confess to downloading a ROM of a game called "Ore-no Ryouri" (My Cooking; according to Google Translate) It was released as a demo on the PSX in full Japanese, there was never an english demo/full release nor a Japanese full release in the USA.

I think it is alright if you aren't able to get a legal copy that was released state-side (or whatever country you may be in) and even if you did manage to wrangle a original copy, it would more than likely be region locked.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

I don't understand why the fuck people think pirates would stop if their self-justification doesn't hold up. I could tell you it's morally wrong and illegal, but you wouldn't listen.

And I wouldn't blame you one bit. I don't have an issue with people claiming to pirate. As long as you never think what you're doing is in anyway justified, I don't take issue with it (because there's just too many people to combat if I do).

 

[KiloFox]

I don't understand why the fuck people think pirates would stop if their self-justification doesn't hold up. I could tell you it's morally wrong and illegal, but you wouldn't listen.

And I wouldn't blame you one bit. I don't have an issue with people claiming to pirate. As long as you never think what you're doing is in anyway justified, I don't take issue with it (because there's just too many people to combat if I do).

well... in this kind of case anyway, it is kind of justified in its own way (not the typical justified as though you're Robin Hood of gaming...) in the sense of "it's their own damn fault they don't want my money." if they released the game in my area, regardless of whether i already had the ROM or not, i would buy the game. (honestly i'd buy it even if the game sucked on the ROM because i'm that big a FE nut) but no, Nintendo dosn't want to sell their game to me. but i'm gonna play it anyway. it's its own kind of justification that (at best) is still admittedly on shaky ground.

EDIT: i will agree though, most of the time piracy is in no way justifiable... if you don't have money to buy games, you shouldn't be spending time on games, you should be working so you CAN buy games. and various other examples. but when it's flat out impossible to get the game otherwise (or at least in your language so you can actually PLAY) then i think it's justifiable in at LEAST a slim way. i think that applies to non-localized games, and games out of print (like N64 and older, you can still find GameCubes and their games at game stores)


Captcha has a dirty, dirty mind - usedAss exemplary

 

[Tanis]

I think it boils down to this:
If you want my money, release it in my country...or at LEAST in my language.

 

[way2sl0w]

Legally still wrong. Moral grey area. Done.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

I don't understand why the fuck people think pirates would stop if their self-justification doesn't hold up. I could tell you it's morally wrong and illegal, but you wouldn't listen.

And I wouldn't blame you one bit. I don't have an issue with people claiming to pirate. As long as you never think what you're doing is in anyway justified, I don't take issue with it (because there's just too many people to combat if I do).

well... in this kind of case anyway, it is kind of justified in its own way (not the typical justified as though you're Robin Hood of gaming...) in the sense of "it's their own damn fault they don't want my money." if they released the game in my area, regardless of whether i already had the ROM or not, i would buy the game. (honestly i'd buy it even if the game sucked on the ROM because i'm that big a FE nut) but no, Nintendo dosn't want to sell their game to me. but i'm gonna play it anyway. it's its own kind of justification that (at best) is still admittedly on shaky ground.

EDIT: i will agree though, most of the time piracy is in no way justifiable... if you don't have money to buy games, you shouldn't be spending time on games, you should be working so you CAN buy games. and various other examples. but when it's flat out impossible to get the game otherwise (or at least in your language so you can actually PLAY) then i think it's justifiable in at LEAST a slim way. i think that applies to non-localized games, and games out of print (like N64 and older, you can still find GameCubes and their games at game stores)


Captcha has a dirty, dirty mind - usedAss exemplary

I respect your opinion and appreciate the time you took to write your post, so I will do you the courtesy of being honest and saying I don't quite know how to respond to your post. I think at the end of the day, what you do and how you justify it is up to you (and I don't really disagree with the response to pirate when something is actually not available, I think it's an acceptable response, just not a justifiable one), just don't try and convince me or someone else that it's in anyway "right".

Hopefully that makes sense?

 

[targren]

I respect your opinion and appreciate the time you took to write your post, so I will do you the courtesy of being honest and saying I don't quite know how to respond to your post. I think at the end of the day, what you do and how you justify it is up to you (and I don't really disagree with the response to pirate when something is actually not available, I think it's an acceptable response, just not a justifiable one), just don't try and convince me or someone else that it's in anyway "right".

Hopefully that makes sense?[/quote]

Well, leaving right and wrong out of it, it does prove a very effective counterexample the industry insistence that illegal downloads equate to lost sales.

 

[Abe Robinson]

2) from a more legal viewpoint, CAN you even pirate such a game? it was never released in your area, or language. and the only translation is from a fan patch that HAS to have a ROM to function.

The only way it isn't piracy is if you buy the original version of the game. Even if the translated version didn't require an original ROM (i.e. the ROM was included) you would still need to have purchased the original game.

If not using every feature of any given IP got you off the hook for piracy (in this case, not using the Japanese text), we'd have people not pirating games because they didn't get all the achievements or walk in every last corner of the world, and we'd have people who didn't pirate movies because they blinked while watching, and therefore missed some frames.

 

[isometry]

I don't see a problem with a morally. Legally, it's just as illegal as any other time of copyright infringement. In this case, even though the game was not released in the US, it is copyrighted in Japan and the US has treaties with Japan saying that we will respect each others copyrights.

 

[Ziame]

and in what way ordering from japan is a problem today? just buy it, and the ROM it.

 

[scar_47]

Yes it's still illegal as your obtaining a product without paying for it, that being said I personally believe it's okay as you really have no other reasonable way to obtain and play the game. I use the same logic for older rare or ridiculously priced games it's essentially not available and the devs and publishers wouldn't see a cent anyway because their all used sales.

 

[Blaze the Dragon]

Well I think the location you pirate the game from makes no difference as to the legality. Why should you be allowed to get the game for free when people in Japan will have to pay for it? Ignoring the fact that it wasn't even released in your country. Is importing illegal btw? I don't think so, but I honestly don't know since I never checked. If it isn't, then why not import it instead? I know about the whole region locking thing, but if you really want the game legally then you better pay everything you need to in order to play it. Also I think you could get around any morality issues, if you pirated it from them, and then donated the cost of the game to the appropriate company.

 

[viranimus]

Im sorry I see no grey area here at all.

If the company is active and economically viable in a specific market and they decide to not give that market X game that is their decision. You cannot predict what a company will do, so you have no way of knowing categorically that the company will not one day down the road decide to start selling it in that market.

Project Rainfall anyone?

The only time you get to violate a copy write is an extremely rare instance when there is no one left to call foul at your violation of their copy write. So developers/publishers/copy write holders who no longer remain active in a for profit business. That essentially means you need both the developer AND the publisher to be defunct as well as any other possible copy write holders no longer staking claim to profits from that IP and do so for a span no less than a decade as assets can take time to change hands. Time the average gamer does not take into consideration.