PlayStation All-Stars Vs. Super Smash Bros.

[Kross]

That said I hate the kill mechanic. No matter how well you do in a fight, as long as you can land one super you're good.

Well, a more casual player is able to jump right in and feel fairly effective until the supers start coming out, but there's a lot of provisions for strategy in the AP system if you know what you're doing.

Level 1 supers are relatively easily dodged or interrupted - you really can't use most of them against someone who's directly on you. They all make a similar sound/flash that players who know what they are doing will see coming, and can react to. Level 2 supers can be hit out of their slower animation with any other super (preferably a 1). Doing a throw or certain special moves will deplete an opponent's AP bar (and drop AP orbs on the ground for you to pick up). If you get up to pro esports level, then managing your opponent's AP bar is very doable, and level 3s should only really happen if they're outplaying you by quite a bit - a good player will deplete your AP, or will get multiple kills on you while you're sitting on all your AP building to level 3 (some 3s are worth it if you can wipe out 3 other players multiple times).

It may not be everyone's thing, and I'm not the greatest at it, but I liked the no hp system quite a bit. There's definitely more to it then unloading a bunch of hits and unleashing a screen wiping super though.

 

[axlryder]

while i understand your complaints to call brawl a crap game is idiotic

No one here said it was crap. We're saying Melee has better gameplay and that there are good reasons for people preferring Melee. Do try not to misrepresent an opponent's argument, it's very bad form.

especially when the latter of the two fanbases are the minority

Who represents the majority or minority has nothing to do with one's subjective assessment of the quality of the game. Just because a game might successfully pander to its intended demographic doesn't mean that I can't think it's a worse game for it when considering the changes that were made.

shouldn't they all be happy that Nintendo is even considering their input and deciding to do something about their complaints in ssb4 instead of going par for the course.

Again, that's a pointless thing to bring up. We're talking about comparing two games that exist. Not what Hal and Nintendo plan on doing for the sequel. If anything, their stated intentions for the future is a better defense for the previous title, not its successor.

i am in this "tournyfags" category, i know i am the minority for me to even expect a company like Nintendo who prides themselves on doing the same sh** kinda different(there are so many, of their idea's that they are implanting now, that they have had since nintendo started making games, the Wii and WiiU are 2 of those things) to cater to a minority is insane, if they did that before, i would have a 4th mother by now. i didn't expect brawl to be this combo heavy place, just a fun brawler.

i am just glad Nintendo decided to try and be more competitive and do something different, in ssb4, i would have played it regardless, sonic is gonna punch Mario in the face.

That's nice

i think the " everything is awesome and no one is happy " line should be used here, this isn't street fighter x tekken or capcom fighting jam, there are no huge scandals or systematic failures, you can't do the same combo's , meh.

again, you're saying "so they just took out a potentially KEY fighting mechanic, meh". You're trying to downplay an important factor. If they took the combo system out of any other fighting game there would be total outrage. What's more, there's more to it than JUST the combos. I think that should have been made apparent by the laundry list of things in my previous comment. People preferring a game that they view as "better", and thus placing that game as the standard to compare others against hardly fits the "everything is awesome and no one is happy" scenario you're proposing.

also anyone this being able to hack with no repercussions as a plus. i have shadow the hedgehog and zidane in my brawl, i am quite happy.

That's entirely missing the point. You can hack just about any game. That's not how you compare two games though. That's like saying "which is better, Super Mario World or Yoshi's Island?" and then someone saying there are waaaay more hacks for SMW so obviously that's the superior game. It's a silly point to bring up considering the game isn't even designed to do that.

and while i again i kinda agree with you in a combo aspect, everything else grabs damage intake, i think its fine.

A lot of people don't, and considering your assessment is not the template we use to test the validity of our opinions, those criticisms still stand as valid.

anyways that my shtick, take or leave it

I'll leave it, thank you.

 

[axlryder]

i will respond to he some things

Augh, don't do that. Either respond to all or none. Cherry picking points is a very obnoxious debate tactic and just makes it look like you have a poor overall argument.

first there are quite a few who are quick to label the game crap.

Yes, some people. I'm not some people. Don't bring up the position of some people when talking to a specific person.

next i said you cant do the same combo's there are plenty of them you can do, you just dont like the system brawl has set up. reasonable some people like 3rd strie better than super street fighter 4.

I'm obviously aware of how this all works. They did, however, remove the combo system that was available in Melee. It's nearly impossible to chain more than a 3 or so attacks in Brawl. It's a flimsy excuse for combo potential. Brawl is objectively limited/nerfed in this regard. That's just the way they designed it. SF4 and 3rd Strike aren't good comparisons since they both have deep combo systems. Yes, it does come down to preference, but no, it's not like they're on different yet even footing.

the rest of it i will leave it alone

shocking

i think we are going to dissagreem plus i dont feeling typing a full argument.
i disagree with you ,can we be the friends now

Only if you provide the liquor.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

I know why Crash and Spyro didn't make the roster...but it would have made so many people happy if they did...

I know it would've made me happy...
Activision loves money, isn't there any wheel greasing Sony can do to make this happen in the future?

 

[144_v1legacy]

In comparisons I've heard, I'm confused as to why the standardized moveset model is implied to be a negative?

In SSB, the idea that every character followed a common template meant that the game was easy to learn, and that one could switch between characters more fluidly. Complicated and individualized movesets are actually a major turn-off for me in fighting games, and the simplicity of the Smash Bros scheme is part of what makes it so fun. The players, regardless of their character choice use a common set of rules to respond to a variety of scenarios. Advantages can shift based on the combinations of characters and levels (which is why it helps to have a lot of both), but the tools we have are more or less unchanged.

The way I hear it, the implication that it is better for each character to become more individualized seems like a plea for the game to be more like a traditional fighter that demands character-intensive practice and not context-applied experience.

 

[DjinnFor]

Finally, you also forgot an important part for hardcore gamers: design philosophy. Melee became hyper-competitive, because of a glitch. It was never intended, yet it was what made the game legendary. Yet, in Brawl, they tried to remove wavedashing and combos and even inserted random tripping into the game in order to undo all that Melee had (though it hasn't stopped people from playing it competitively).

PSABR was designed by people who were in the competitive fighting game scene at one point (Omar Kendall, Clockw0rk, Seth Killian) and tried their hardest to make PSABR competitive. My point is, both games moved in different directions in how competitive they wanted to be.

Might actually consider picking this up now.

 

[Ephidel]

I haven't played Public Service Announcement (PSA, lol) and as such I'm probably a biased SSB fan, but it's important to remember that SSB is a game that was created as a quick release title for the N64 as a cash grab that wasn't supposed to take off the way it did (much like portal) and as a result, it's evolutions are based on the decisions made during that period. I bring this up as a small counterpoint to the Mario stomp example.

Clones have a similar "rushed" problem. Ganondorf in Melee was thrown in at the last minute due to public demand from fans and Roy was included in an attempt to boost Fire Emblem Sales for Roy's game: Fire Emblem Blazing Sword, which was released in march 2002 (approx 4 months AFTER the release of Melee in nov 2001 both release dates are JP)

However none of these change the current gameplay differences between SSB and PSA. Ultimately, I'll have to make the judgement for myself and I always like the idea of world cross-over brawlers.

Actually, Roy's game was Sword of Seals (Fuuin no Tsurugi). Blazing Sword (Rekka no Ken) was FE7 with Eliwood (Roy's father), Lyn and Hector and it was the first Fire Emblem to be released outside of Japan (Released on 25th April 2003 in Japan, 3rd November 2003 for North America and 16th July 2004 for Europe).

You can probably guess why I know that if you ever played it.

Regarding the topic, I've been a Nintendo fan for 25 years. I'm obviously biased and my opinion is predictable enough that there's no real point trying to say anything of consequence, other than kids who grew up with a "Nintendo education" tend to actually be better people in real life. I could probably write a whole article or mini-thesis on how and why, and I'm not looking to cause an argument, it's just a passive observation throughout my life.