Please stop calling it "Medical Marijuana"

Sandytimeman

Brain Freeze...yay!
Jan 14, 2011
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IzisviAziria said:
I understand that many people legitimately get through difficult pains and ailments with the aid of marijuana, and while I totally support that, it is NOT the majority of use, and it is NOT why the majority of people want it legalized. That is my point.
Yeah I agree but the problem is multi-prong. You have alot of established industries and lobbyists against the legalization for so long.
  • Cotton Industry(to stop hemp from being grown locally)
  • Lobbyists for Prison Guard Unions which are pushing for longer sentences for minor crimes like possession. (btw yes Prisons make money and are privately owned in the US..its a business to keep people locked up. In 07' we locked up 750 people per 100,000. Where as say Japan only does 38 per 100,000)
  • Politicians that have remained ignorant of modern marijuana studies or know of the studies and just straight up lied to their constituents. So the first politician that comes out for it, will have to either be a liar or a moron and commit basically political suicide.
  • Lets not forget that according to some studies (info via The Union Documentary [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Union:_The_Business_Behind_Getting_High]) Marijuana is a safe mild substitute for almost 200+ Prescription medications. So you have the lobbyists and money from the Pharmaceuticals Industry also to contend with.

The term medical marijuana is an easy out for most politicians a way to legalize marijuana without having to admit that they were stupid or lied. They also don't have to fight as hard against all the money in their pocket to keep it relatively illegal.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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IzisviAziria said:
I don't have a problem with your argument, simply the wording of it. There are countless cases of people who actually do have medical issues which actually can be helped by partaking of the herb. I fully agree with the notion that the current system is ripe for exploitation and that in most cases all you have to do is go to a doctor and say "My back hurts" and you get your "pot is legal for me" card.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that marijuana DOES have numerous medicinal purposes. Do you consider cough medicine to not be medicine just because some people choose to chug it down and go robitrippin'? Or are prescription drugs not medicine either just because there's plenty of people who abuse those as well?

Again, I agree with your point that the notion of Medical Marijuana is, as a whole on average, just an excuse card for people who want to smoke pot. However that doesn't take away from the fact that there ARE plenty of medicinal uses for marijuana, so I do take exception with you for asserting that marijuana is nothing but a drug and has absolutely no medical purpose whatsoever. You say it never cured any disease, it's not supposed to, it's an anesthetic + appetite increaser. So yeah, you try telling my younger brother who went through chemotherapy that pot did absolutely nothing to help him make it through all the pain and nearly starving himself to death.
 

spartan231490

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Jan 14, 2010
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IzisviAziria said:
snip
-I understand that many people legitimately get through difficult pains and ailments with the aid of marijuana, and while I totally support that, it is NOT the majority of use, and it is NOT why the majority of people want it legalized. That is my point.
You kinda defeat your own argument right here. It's not like medicine is only medicine if it cures something. Tell that to all the people with HIV/AIDS. Tell that to the millions of people who get migraine headaches twice a week who live on painkillers. Medical Marijuana is a good fucking idea. It's almost as effective as narcotics, with far fewer side effects, and less risk of addiction, so I protest your assertion that medical marijuana doesn't exist.

That said, I'm all for legalization in general, I don't smoke, and I wouldn't, but neither I nor anyone in government has any right to tell people what they can and can't put in their bodies.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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IzisviAziria said:
Seriously. Stop doing it. You're not helping. You're not accomplishing anything. It does not fix any problem the body has, it does not fix any ailment, it is not a cure for anything. The number of people who have had diseases cured by pot is zero.
But you said...

-I understand that many people legitimately get through difficult pains and ailments with the aid of marijuana, and while I totally support that, it is NOT the majority of use, and it is NOT why the majority of people want it legalized. That is my point.
That's a legitimate medical use. That's why people say "medical marijuana." We're not talking about the majority of use, even if people will abuse the system and get prescriptions from dodgy sources.

There is a strong, legitimate argument for medical marijuana. The arguments for legalization and medical use are separate ones that can both be pursued.
 

iseko

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Dec 4, 2008
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Marijuana can induce psychosis. Several studies have been performed around this topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22213786

The link goes to one of these studies. Alcohol can do the same in a sense but only if you abuse it a long time (alcoholic -> korsakov syndrome). Some people can get psychosis from 1 puff of marijuana. The percentage of people in the population is larger then you think. So no I don't think they should legalise it.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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spartan231490 said:
Tell that to the millions of people who get migraine headaches twice a week who live on painkillers.
As someone who suffers migraines and takes a regular medication that at best suppresses the symptoms, I can certainly agree here.

Not curing something is not a reason for invalidating something as medicine.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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IzisviAziria said:
It does not fix any problem the body has, it does not fix any ailment, it is not a cure for anything. The number of people who have had diseases cured by pot is zero.
You could say exactly the same about Lemsip. Alleviating suffering is something else medicines do apart from curing - even if it's only the Placebo effect.

Medical Viagra could also be prescribed, for instance.

iseko said:
Marijuana can induce psychosis. Several studies have been performed around this topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22213786
15 men who might have used it before might get psychosis. Here, let me grab the Conclusion for you.
These effects may contribute to the effects of cannabis on psychotic symptoms and on the risk of psychotic disorders.
So, no, discredited.

And if you're suffering from the last stages of Cancer et. al. I think your days of worrying about possible psychosis are way behind getting one good night's sleep.
 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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I didn't think people actually used that as an argument to legalize pot. There are plenty of drugs that you cannot get over the counter but can help treat symptoms. Pot is one of them.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Medical Viagra could also be prescribed, for instance.
Well, it might cure your depression.

Sorry...Had to.

(Also, "your" in the general sense, not you specifically)
 

The Funslinger

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Sep 12, 2010
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IzisviAziria said:
Greni said:
Regnes said:
ohnoitsabear said:
I agree that potheads should just come out and say that they want to get high without worrying about legal issues.

Also, I think this is relevant: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/
It's a hard call to make, governments are just unwilling to legalize recreational marijuana, they just won't touch it, it's almost like political suicide to them. I'm not very vocal about marijuana activism since it tends to get on people's nerves more than enlighten them, but this is a task we just can't accomplish by straight up admitting what we really want.

We ride on the medicinal marijuana movement because it serves to open loopholes and give us momentum, once medicinal marijuana is properly integrated and not controversial anymore, we can start working towards the next step.

We're very close to victory in Canada though, perhaps even closer than California was recently. In March there will be an appeal on a judge ruling last April, the government has been found guilty of violating the constitution with their marijuana regulations, failure to make amends during the appeal will result in nationwide legalization of all uses of marijuana.

The original deadline was going to be last July, but Harper managed to get an extension.
Just cause I want to tell ya: I went to Canada once, for six weeks, and boy! What a relief. Like stepping out of the crazy train to breath some fresh air and sensibility. People were open, sincere and enlightened on the issue. The people whose house I was staying at, let me, their daughter (who didn't partake) and her friends (who certainly did) toke on their lawn with a bonfire and it was all cozy and friendly. Gave me an insight on the world 'post-legalization', no more dark hiding places where you almost feel shameful indulging on the herb, just some friends together toking and enjoying life's finer moments. That is the future I'm hoping for, and a bright one it is.
That sounds FANTASTIC.
Exactly! I've seen the shady aspect of pot smoking, and there are, in fact, people who take that as part of the experience and they're complete DICKS! Literally, they've tried to get me arrested or killed because they thought it would be funny. I don't talk to those people anymore. I'd love a world where I can just sit with a couple of people I really feel comfortable with and smoke pot, without having to go outside somewhere, or air out a room afterwards to avoid being caught.

Also, a funny story: I was at a party in late December, and this guy I know says he has a present for me. He puts a bag of pot in my hand. I'm like "okay..." *pockets*. He says it's a christmas present, but I really think it's a "the first one's always free!" kind of thing.
 

Steampunk Viking

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Jan 15, 2010
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IzisviAziria said:
It does not fix any problem the body has, it does not fix any ailment, it is not a cure for anything. The number of people who have had diseases cured by pot is zero.
A bit like a placebo then?
 

IPunchWithMyFists

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Feb 14, 2011
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IzisviAziria said:
Seriously. Stop doing it. You're not helping. You're not accomplishing anything. It does not fix any problem the body has, it does not fix any ailment, it is not a cure for anything. The number of people who have had diseases cured by pot is zero.

"Medical Marijuana" is a trend. It's a catchphrase, a hotword that people who support legalization are trying to use to get it legalized. They use touching stories of cancer patients who rode out their chemotherapy by toking up. I get that. But that doesn't make it medicine. It makes it a painkiller. It's medicine the same way Vicodin is, which is to say, not at all.

Now, I'm not ranting against legalization. I genuinely believe it should be legalized, regulated, and taxed. I'm ranting against the pretense on which people are trying to get it legalized. You want pot to be legal so that you can come home from work, kick back, and have a toke or two the same way you can come home from work, kick back, and have a beer or three right now. And there's nothing wrong with that. But if we're going to get anywhere with the argument, we have to first acknowledge that. We have to be mature, upfront, honest, and genuine with our case. Yes, pot is recreational. Yes, we want it legalized so that we can recreationally use it without having to deal with some shady scumbag, or be afraid of losing our jobs to drug tests or incarceration.

Prohibition of alcohol wasn't defeated by shouting it's medicinal value. Nobody used sob stories or half-truths. People just said they wanted to be able to have a fucking beer without getting it from the mob. If marijuana is going to be legalized, that's how it's going to happen. People are going to say that we, as free human beings, have the right to use it if we so choose.


This rant was inspired by the following video


Couple flame shields here:

-I'm sure this thread has a high likelihood to devolve into another legalize vs don't legalize argument, in which case I plead for both sides to be civil, thoughtful, and mature in their arguments. It won't happen, but by saying that, I can sleep better tonight.
-I understand that many people legitimately get through difficult pains and ailments with the aid of marijuana, and while I totally support that, it is NOT the majority of use, and it is NOT why the majority of people want it legalized. That is my point.
Wow, I was about to call you a tool, but yeah, you're totally right.

Just don't get so mad, jeez, can't a dog get this dank shizznitz down on sum righteous-ass MEDICINAL MARIJUANA in peace, brah?
 

funguy2121

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Oct 20, 2009
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IzisviAziria said:
You watch too much TV and are too informed by conventional wisdom. Marijuana can slow the onset of Alzheimer's/dementia, it can benefit people who suffer from cataracts and glaucoma, it can help with impotence and for those who have cerebral palsy or anything else that causes tremors and nausea, it helps them as well. Marijuana can help people to eat when they feel sick. These are medical facts supported by a wealth of empirical data and lab studies. It's already legal purely for medicinal use in many areas. The federal government grows it at Old Miss and provides it to 6 American citizens, including George McMahon, whom I've met. He has Nail Patella Syndrome and will tell you that he's alive today because of Marijuana.

Why do you suppose that is? Are you smarter than all of the doctors who risk their practice to recommend marijuana to their patients? Are these docs just a bunch of stoner hippies?

I work with surgeons for a living, so let me tell you: not one of them is a stoner hippie. We clear on that? 'Kay.

People should be able to get high for fun, just as they get drunk for fun. But that isn't nearly as important as sick people being able to access it.

So, in summary: you are dead wrong. I will continue to use the term medical marijuana, because medical marijuana exists, no matter how much it annoys you that sitcoms make fun of it.

"By the way, keep drinkin' beer, morons!" --Bill Hicks
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Sep 15, 2010
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IzisviAziria said:
med·i·cine/ˈmedisən/
Noun:

The science or practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease (in technical use often taken to exclude surgery).
A drug or other preparation used for the treatment or prevention of disease.

Marijuana is a drug. Opiates are a drug. Penicillin is medicine. Pain relievers are not medicine, they are drugs.
**face-palm**

Medicine and 'drug' are synonyms. Your definition uses them as such - I've highlighted the relevant bit.

It is almost impossible to treat diseases directly. Typically, the best you can do is reduce the harm the disease does, strengthen the immune system, and hope for the best.

Marijuana is a medicine that reduces or eliminates nausea, a common side-effect of chemo therapy (which is literal poison that will hopefully kill your cancer before it kills you).

Whether or not you can get high on something has no baring on it's effectiveness as medicine. You can get high on cough syrup - doesn't mean it doesn't treat your cough.
 

wintercoat

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Nov 26, 2011
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IzisviAziria said:
Kendarik said:
Not all medical drugs cure things. In fact most don't, most treat symptoms. That's why marijuana is good for.
GrandmaFunk said:
Also, you seem to be under the impression that "medicine" implies "cure", which is simply not true. A huge portion of medicine is concerned solely with alleviating pain or reducing symptoms or side-effects of other treatments. The fact that a treatment or drug does not cure an illness does not mean it's not medicine.
med·i·cine/ˈmedisən/
Noun:

The science or practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease (in technical use often taken to exclude surgery).
A drug or other preparation used for the treatment or prevention of disease.

Marijuana is a drug. Opiates are a drug. Penicillin is medicine. Pain relievers are not medicine, they are drugs.
You left out the most important part!

medicine med·i·cine (měd'ĭ-sĭn)
n.

The science of diagnosing, treating, or preventing disease and other damage to the body or mind.

The branch of this science encompassing treatment by drugs, diet, exercise, and other nonsurgical means.

The practice of medicine.

An agent, such as a drug, used to treat disease or injury.


That's from a medical dictionary by the way. Drugs are classified as medicine. I do agree, though, that people should stop piggy-backing the medicinal uses when they just want to toke up, it does more harm than good. Just wanted to point out that it is indeed medicine.
 

Deathmageddon

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Nov 1, 2011
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Regnes said:
Anesthesia is for medical purposes, it reduces stress and thus allows the body to function on a more healthy level.
Anesthesia is used so that patients won't feel the doctor cutting them open and looking around, not reducing stress...

Also people shouldn't have to alter their brain chemistry just because they're uptight. You know the best way to promote good health and reduce stress? Exercise. All pot does is make you too stupid to worry about stuff for a few hours, which are better spent getting stuff done and eliminating the cause of your stress.
 

GrandmaFunk

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Oct 19, 2009
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iseko said:
Marijuana can induce psychosis. Several studies have been performed around this topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22213786

The link goes to one of these studies.Alcohol can do the same in a sense but only if you abuse it a long time (alcoholic -> korsakov syndrome). Some people can get psychosis from 1 puff of marijuana. The percentage of people in the population is larger then you think. So no I don't think they should legalise it.
Apparently you totally misunderstood both the context and findings of that study. As well as what's meant by the use of the term "psychosis", which in this cases is used to mean an altered state of mind, which may include hallucinations.

this state of psychosis is temporary and is basically a scientific way of describing "getting high".
 

Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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Do you know how many drugs don't actually affect the course of a disease, but are merely palliative in nature?

A lot.