Plot holes in "Avatar"

[sauerkraus]

Does anyone else laugh every time they read 'unobtanium' ?

 

[House_Vet]

Nope, cos it's a real scientific term.

 

[Manhattan2112]

I had a huge problem with the fact that in the beginning of the movie, the one guy says that "the Na'vi are hard to kill because of their naturally reinforced bones," however, Norm died in one shot. What was that?!

 

[House_Vet]

Yeah I understand the Allegory thing its just I think movies often cave in on themselves trying to draw parallels.

For example district 9 was an allegory to the Apartheid but I had huge issues with this:

Black Africans were not technologically superior to the White Europeans that first began to migrate to Africa and assume control. (Saying the aliens were biologically more powerful (ripping humans apart in some scenes, and also technologically superior but were just uninterested in self preservation yet still built weapons and committed criminal acts or revolted was a psychological cluster fuck of logic.)

That would be like saying the Zulu had AK-47s during the Victorian era but just decided they would not use them, because they were docile. Where in reality they fought very hard and bravely but just could not win due to the technological gap.

I thought If I was African the movie seemed quite insulting as if to say they failed to gain the upper hand because they did not care enough.

More pertaining to Avatar I believe If I understand it correctly Avatar is an Allegory to the colonization of the America's.

1. European's did not bring brutality or war to the America's, tribes were warring with one another far before they got involved. (The Aztec's were even enslaving entire civilizations to use as work horses or even to sacrifice in blood rituals.)

2. Many Native Americans assimilated fairly quickly after their civilizations were falling apart due to plague/war (granted the plague was brought by Europeans but then it was not understood as to how such things were spread).

3. Many European cultures were once centered around nature. (For instance Druids)

I just thought the movie sounds like it over demonizes or underplays certain parts of a culture to get a point across under false pretenses.

You can portray anything in any way you like (See Propaganda).

Edit: Sorry I meant at the end there to add that I get that its a Go Green movie, I just mean from the sounds of this movie it would of been much more interesting and even clever if it was less of a captain planet knock off (With overly good good guys and overly bad bad guys).

This movie sounds like a John Wayne Film set in reverse.

I agree with you about District 9 - I thought it was more than a bit odd on the prawns being almost 'cattle-like'.

Whilst it's true that the druids were pagan, the message in this film is closer to the idea of Gaia as a deity, and the understanding of that fact (fact within the film anyhow). Also, the idea of warring tribes is mirrored, if not spoken of in Avatar, as it takes something pretty special to bring them together. Also, quick hegemony is not a great argument IMHO - what is lost stays lost - common literary theme concerning language and culture.

The film is indeed propaganda of a sort, but as far as I'm concerned, sugaring the pill and using broad strokes of the brush (type rather than individual characters etc) is acceptable for what I'd consider a message that, if taken, will do the world good.

So I guess I'm recommending the film to you - you may not like its pretensions, but as far as a spectacle goes, it's pretty damn epic - well worth a trip to the cinema.

@Manhattan2112
Oh, and I'm not sure Norm's Avatar died - it was his shoulder that got hit, and (debatably) you see his Avatar at the end.

 

[RealLifev2.0.09]

Yeah I understand the Allegory thing its just I think movies often cave in on themselves trying to draw parallels.

For example district 9 was an allegory to the Apartheid but I had huge issues with this:

Black Africans were not technologically superior to the White Europeans that first began to migrate to Africa and assume control. (Saying the aliens were biologically more powerful (ripping humans apart in some scenes, and also technologically superior but were just uninterested in self preservation yet still built weapons and committed criminal acts or revolted was a psychological cluster fuck of logic.)

That would be like saying the Zulu had AK-47s during the Victorian era but just decided they would not use them, because they were docile. Where in reality they fought very hard and bravely but just could not win due to the technological gap.

I thought If I was African the movie seemed quite insulting as if to say they failed to gain the upper hand because they did not care enough.

More pertaining to Avatar I believe If I understand it correctly Avatar is an Allegory to the colonization of the America's.

1. European's did not bring brutality or war to the America's, tribes were warring with one another far before they got involved. (The Aztec's were even enslaving entire civilizations to use as work horses or even to sacrifice in blood rituals.)

2. Many Native Americans assimilated fairly quickly after their civilizations were falling apart due to plague/war (granted the plague was brought by Europeans but then it was not understood as to how such things were spread).

3. Many European cultures were once centered around nature. (For instance Druids)

I just thought the movie sounds like it over demonizes or underplays certain parts of a culture to get a point across under false pretenses.

You can portray anything in any way you like (See Propaganda).

Edit: Sorry I meant at the end there to add that I get that its a Go Green movie, I just mean from the sounds of this movie it would of been much more interesting and even clever if it was less of a captain planet knock off (With overly good good guys and overly bad bad guys).

This movie sounds like a John Wayne Film set in reverse.

I agree with you about District 9 - I thought it was more than a bit odd on the prawns being almost 'cattle-like'.

Whilst it's true that the druids were pagan, the message in this film is closer to the idea of Gaia as a deity, and the understanding of that fact (fact within the film anyhow). Also, the idea of warring tribes is mirrored, if not spoken of in Avatar, as it takes something pretty special to bring them together. Also, quick hegemony is not a great argument IMHO - what is lost stays lost - common literary theme concerning language and culture.

The film is indeed propaganda of a sort, but as far as I'm concerned, sugaring the pill and using broad strokes of the brush (type rather than individual characters etc) is acceptable for what I'd consider a message that, if taken, will do the world good.

So I guess I'm recommending the film to you - you may not like its pretensions, but as far as a spectacle goes, it's pretty damn epic - well worth a trip to the cinema.

@Manhattan2112
Oh, and I'm not sure Norm's Avatar died - it was his shoulder that got hit, and (debatably) you see his Avatar at the end.

I get what your saying but I still find it ironic for someone to say a movie is pushing for the following of natural orders yet rejects hegemony as being natural.

To me it is just the predatory tendency of civilizations to devour and assimilate other cultures. You can say that it is terrible that the wolf would eat a rabbit, but to say that it is not the will of Gaia for a wolf to eat a rabbit is just silly. Competition and predation is natural and repeated in all Eco systems.

Edit: This in tying with the film I only mean to say that competition between species is relevant to a movie that is trying to say lets get more in touch with nature. It is more natural for wolves to help other wolves then for wolves to help other rabbits, so I think they kind of lose their natural argument when they have humans unnaturally rebirth themselves into the others society. In fact this movie sounds more like it is less about the natural universe, as much as it is about how perceptions can change when you change bodies.

 

[House_Vet]

I get what your saying but I still find it ironic for someone to say a movie is pushing for the following of natural orders yet rejects hegemony as being natural.

To me it is just the predatory tendency of civilizations to devour and assimilate other cultures. You can say that it is terrible that the wolf would eat a rabbit, but to say that it is not the will of Gaia for a wolf to eat a rabbit is just silly. Competition and predation is natural and repeated in all Eco systems.

Edit: This in tying with the film I only mean to say that competition between species is relevant to a movie that is trying to say lets get more in touch with nature. It is more natural for wolves to help other wolves then for wolves to help other rabbits, so I think they kind of lose their natural argument when they have humans unnaturally rebirth themselves into the others society. In fact this movie sounds more like it is less about the natural universe, as much as it is about how perceptions can change when you change bodies.

All of what you're saying is true, apart from the fact that human expansion is decidedly unnatural: We've become so successful as to redress nature's balance in many ways. We do not prey on other humans, and in the same way, the humans in Avatar do not prey on the Na'vi themselves - they simply lack any form of empathy, or humanity towards them, calling them "blue monkeys". Jake, quite accidentally, finds himself taken by surprise by the Na'vi's humanity. When you gain empathy for the people you're subjugating, that brings personal and social conflict. Avatar is about what happens when you step into another people's shoes.

 

[Tarkand]

I think the sequel will be a very dark movie. Think about it, the corporation will probably attempt to re-invade Pandora and the Na'vi really are in no shape to challenge that invasion force. Not only that, but most marines will deem the Na'vi beasts. I mean, the people who rebelled against the corporation only did so because they actually spent time with the tribe and learned about their ways, something which that invasion force never did.

What do you base this on thought?

Jake starts the movie by saying you hear of pandora when you're a kid and he never thought he'd go there.

Somewhere in the movie, we get a very good shot of a book called 'The Na'vi' written by Susan's character which is at least 500 pages thick. It's obvious humanity has been on this planet for a while and both it's eco system and people have been studied for years if not decades.

If anything, the corporation getting its butt kicked back to earth may cause a sensbilation to the native's plight by humanity.

 

[Drax715]

People used to fight wars over spices (you know, the stuff you season food with), not to mention tea, neither of which are inherently necessary for people to survive

 

[Drax715]

That's bullshit. Why would there be such a high demand for this resource if it wasn't necessary?

People used to fight wars over spices (you know, the stuff you season food with), not to mention tea, neither of which are inherently necessary for people to survive

 

[Drax715]

Sorry double post

 

[enzilewulf]

Plot holes?
One for me is the fact that a human betrayed his fellow human to help aliens.
I personally don't understand why he would do it.

Unobtainium must be a very valuable resource and must be being used to fuel humanity's growth if it's worth so much, if RDA was granted monopoly rights to mine for it and the fact that they are spending so much to get it.

So he isn't betraying RDA, he's betraying his race!

Still you can't knock out a sacred place for another race just because your race was to stupid to relize that fossil fules = limited. Honostly the Humans cause was almost as stupid as this war in Iraq's cause.

 

[WaderiAAA]

Plot holes?
One for me is the fact that a human betrayed his fellow human to help aliens.
I personally don't understand why he would do it.

Because he liked the Na'vi more than the humans. Doesn't get more simple than that

He's a traitor in my opinion.

No, it is one that believes their is something ultimately right in the universe. The Na'vis are intelligent, so they are the humans' equals. The humans have no right to just go in and destroy the aliens' homes, therefore Jake fights for what is right.

The Na'vi are in the stone age! (exageration) I never said the Humans are right or if they had the right to do it, read my edited version of my post on the first page, the Humans obviously need the resource that's on Pandora and I believe the end justify's the means.

Then you are exactly the kind of ignorant fool that makes something like that possible. For the record, unobtainium was meant as an energy source for electricity, so it doesn't have that great importance. Also, you can't justify such a thing by the Na'vis not having advanced technology.

 

[imc440]

Haven't been reading so I don't know if this has been asked, but how does Jake know that the goo from that one plant that he uses for his torch is even flamable? I mean that's a pretty good guess for somebody new to a foreign planet. Later he puts the torch down in the grass while he fights those dog like alien creatures and doesn't burn down the whole forest. Another great guess.

 

[squirrelman42]

the whole thing is "dances with wolves", but the wolves are aliens

 

[Monkeytacoz]

http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/

 

[MasterKirov]

Your missing one signifigant hole:

- Where in god's name did every creature on Pandora show up like that during the final fight? Alright, Signourney mentioned the trees and plants were all interconnected, but the animals? Deus Ex Machania?

 

[AlphaOmega]

Where is Zuko's mom ?

Oh that Avatar?

 

[TheDoctor455]

So I went to the theater yesterday and saw Avatar in 3d. It was pretty good. Today, I was reflecting on the movie a little when I realized there was something odd. I shall recount the scenes in which this plot hole occurs.

WARNING, SPOILERS

Hole #1 (my friend actually pointed this one out): In the beginning scene where Jake first takes control of the avatar, he comes across numerous other avatars (the ones playing basketball, numerous others you see scattered about). These ones are never seen in the movie again. Who's avatars are they and what purpose do they serve?

Hole #2: During the final battle, we see that the avatar of Norm (the other scientist guy) is killed. Norm emerges from his pod, perfectly fine but visibly shaken. Later, once the main bad guy dies, Jake's real body ends up on the ground outside his pod, struggling for air. Na'vi princess lady comes in and everythings fine.

END SPOILERS

#1: Ok, so it's not really a plot hole, but it's still interesting to point out. There seems to be no purpose for them to be there.

#2: So, where did Norm go? Did he just wander off into the jungle? Surely he would have gone to help his friend Jake, who was struggling for breath on the floor of the mobile outpost. We see him again later at the end, but where did he go?

Did anyone else catch these? Or am I just wrong and missed something that would explain this?

Well judging from how shaken he was, I'd say he was going through the psychological stages of shock. He wouldn't necessarily be going through the physical ones, but the psychological ones certainly. So he most likely passed out for the rest of the battle.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Your missing one signifigant hole:

- Where in god's name did every creature on Pandora show up like that during the final fight? Alright, Signourney mentioned the trees and plants were all interconnected, but the animals? Deus Ex Machania?

You are forgetting that all of those animals are fiercely territorial... and what has the industrial-military complex been doing all this time? Invading their territory and burning down their nests/homes. At this point, they are PISSED.

 

[Firenz]

This film's plot is not the strongest of things.

Check out this and you'll see why http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/#comments

Still a great film though (although the bit *SPOILERS* where you almost see a naked Sigourney Weaver (sp?) is pretty damned scary)

EDIT:

Your missing one signifigant hole:

- Where in god's name did every creature on Pandora show up like that during the final fight? Alright, Signourney mentioned the trees and plants were all interconnected, but the animals? Deus Ex Machania?

You are forgetting that all of those animals are fiercely territorial... and what has the industrial-military complex been doing all this time? Invading their territory and burning down their nests/homes. At this point, they are PISSED.

I think you guys may have slept through the earlier scene with Jake at the Tree of Souls asking Eywah for help.