Plot holes in "Avatar"

[kotorfan04]

quote="chickenlord" post="18.163465.4480783"]also how if their atmosphere isnt oxygen (im assuming its not oxygen cause human die in it) then how are there fires and explosions... not to get too technical but oxygen vital to fire...[/quote]
Well there could be oxygen there but there could also be stuff in the atmosphear like Carbon Monoxide or Arsenic, or some weird ass alien poison we don't know about yet.[

 

[Dovien]

The idea of betraying race is irrelevant when stacked up against betraying one's ethics. It doesn't matter what race he belongs to, in either case. The point is that he is doing what he believes is right. Should ethics be considered less important than loyalties? That's like saying every German should have sided with Hitler just because they were German.

 

[Commissar Sae]

And why did all the Na'vi arrows bounce harmlessly off the jets at first, and then at the end they are blasting straight through the cockpit windows?

They came from a steep angle better suited for penetration, building up force as they went, already had considerable speed, and they hit a larger piece of glass than the windows you saw get scratched and whatnot earlier in the movie when they tried their arrows. It's obvious in that part though that they simply couldn't get a proper hit with the proper angle, not did they have enough force in the impact because they came from beneath and the initial velocity was zero; the shooters were stationary, as opposed to flying some LSD-Dragons and coming from above with high velocity before they even fired their arrows. Simple 8th grade physics. This would give the arrows high initial velocity before the force of the bow is applied increasing the potential force of impact.

So it's definitely possible, just not probable, but it's a Sci-Fi, so they find ways...

This theory falls a part the moment you remember that all of this takes place IN MID-AIR..
How do you have a "steep angle" better suited for penetration and building up force when you're flying around on the back of a whatever it is, shooting at a fully armored helicopter thingy that itself is whizzing about and that, with armor designed to stop the penetration of futuristic bullets in war back on Earth presumably..

Are you saying the Navi arrowheads were made of stronger materials and fired with suitable enough force to puncture through what is undoubtedly highly advanced armor?

In Avatar however, we get big blue people on birds firing magic arrows into armored aircraft with devastating force (and accuracy).
ALthough we did see them die by scores... makes me wonder if in the end, their victory wasn't bitter sweet, considering the thousands upon thousands of Na'vi that were mowed down in the beginning stages of that battle.

I'll do some rudementary physics here, the angle is a help sure, but at the same time you have a bow being fired by a 10 foot tall uber-strong killing machine. Its firing like a Javelin from a psycho-strung ballista. This isn't quite like a human vs a tank, more like a ballista vs an armored car. (something I think we need to see tested.)
And yeah, it was a bit of a Phyrric victory for the Na'vi, but when the alternative was the genocide of their species. A few thousand vs several million if not billion seems acceptable.

 

[Commissar Sae]

True, but they haven't shown up in that kind of numbers at all. Not to mention with said deforestation, it's going to kill quite a few of them. Not to mention despite word going around the whole of Pandora, the Na'vi only gain 2,000 warriors. Allow me to emphesise that figure - 2,000?!?! In perspective, there are 6 billion human beings on Earth today, and no doubt more at the point Avatar sets us up with.

How much time did they have to mobilize? Was it a month? A week? Seriously, even if you get word to everyone the logistical nightmare of getting millions of people to show up in one place at one time pretty much guaranteed a limited number. Try walking or even riding across North America, it's going to take you more than a few weeks. And thats just you, Now imagine trying to get several hundred people to move at the same pace, set up camp at night and pack up early the next day. If they had had a few moths to prepare, they probably would have had 10,000s of warriors to work with, time and logistical constraints limited that to 2000.

 

[Sneaklemming]

They arent plot holes. One almost plot hole; is the part where the general dude (aka the badass evil human) tells the dude that he has a shuttle ready to take him back to get his legs repaired.

Protaganist declines; "he wants to save lives" or some bullshit.

Actually, what he does is get 100s of Navi killed in a stupid suicide run.

Had he left in the shuttle; at that point. Yes a few people would have been killed in that village, but, the second battle would not have occurred. Less people would have died.

 

[Undercover]

Avatar had a plot?

 

[HyenaThePirate]

I'll do some rudementary physics here, the angle is a help sure, but at the same time you have a bow being fired by a 10 foot tall uber-strong killing machine. Its firing like a Javelin from a psycho-strung ballista. This isn't quite like a human vs a tank, more like a ballista vs an armored car. (something I think we need to see tested.)
And yeah, it was a bit of a Phyrric victory for the Na'vi, but when the alternative was the genocide of their species. A few thousand vs several million if not billion seems acceptable.

Sorry, not buying it..
woodland Arrow < TANK/ARMORED VEHICLE.

Also, I'm not sure where people keep getting this "Genocide" stuff.
This was not a Genocidal campaign... their goal was not to wipe the Na'vi from the face of pandora...
They wanted ONE specific thing.. unobtainium, found in ONE specific place. The Na'vi were in the way, so they opted to try to remove them forcibly. That final effort with the bombing run was meant to demoralize the Na'vi not wipe them out, otherwise I'm pretty certain they could have just performed some sort of Nuclear bombardment from orbit, which I have to wonder why they didn't bother to do so in the first place.. I mean, if you have the technology to travel 5 years across space to wage war on indigenious lifeforms, clone new life forms with hybrid dna, and transfer a living beings consciousness INTO that cloned new hybrid lifeform, surely you can nuke an area and still harvest what you need through the radiation.

Either way, once the humans had the unobtainium beneath the life tree or whatever, they wouldn't be arsed to stick around.. they would have left and the Na'vi could have rebuilt in peace.

 

[Ignignokt]

And why did all the Na'vi arrows bounce harmlessly off the jets at first, and then at the end they are blasting straight through the cockpit windows?

They came from a steep angle better suited for penetration, building up force as they went, already had considerable speed, and they hit a larger piece of glass than the windows you saw get scratched and whatnot earlier in the movie when they tried their arrows. It's obvious in that part though that they simply couldn't get a proper hit with the proper angle, not did they have enough force in the impact because they came from beneath and the initial velocity was zero; the shooters were stationary, as opposed to flying some LSD-Dragons and coming from above with high velocity before they even fired their arrows. Simple 8th grade physics. This would give the arrows high initial velocity before the force of the bow is applied increasing the potential force of impact.

So it's definitely possible, just not probable, but it's a Sci-Fi, so they find ways...

Unless the military decided bullet-proof glass was for pansies, I still don't buy it.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

The biggest plot hole I found was that everyone apparently saw a god like movie, whilst what I saw was very average. Strange...

Well, the story is bad and the characters are obnoxious, extremist caricatures, but the action is good. So it all depends on how much you enjoyed the action. No big mystery there.

What really bugged me was all the characters unironically calling something everyone wants to get "unobtanium." That was so extremely retarded I felt my brain crash and reboot.

On the other hand, all of the scenes involving flying on winged creatures were awesome.

 

[ShadowKatt]

also how if their atmosphere isnt oxygen (im assuming its not oxygen cause human die in it) then how are there fires and explosions... not to get too technical but oxygen vital to fire...

Not entirely true. You need fuel for a fire, heat, and atmosphere, but that atmosphere doesn't have to be oxygen, it simply has to be flammeble. For example methane is a flammable gas, as well as any of lightweight gases (Hydrogen, helium, etc.)

However, not all gases burn the same color, so whether or not all the big explosions should have been yellow/orange is debatable (Did they ever state what Pandoras atmosphere was?)

Off topic, with all the holes and the rather simplistic plot, I still think this was the best movie I've seen in a long, long, long time. I can't remember a movie I've enjoyed more.

 

[scotth266]

I don't think they were after resources that they needed and had run out of, they were after a certain resource that sold for alot. Basically, they were trying make money not survive.

That's bullshit. Why would there be such a high demand for this resource if it wasn't necessary?

It's called consumerism.

Also, how many people die in gang wars over illegal drugs and how many people have died for things like blood diamonds? They're certainly not necessary.

Do people lose billions of dollars worth of future tech when fighting over drugs? I don't think so. The value of the unobtanium would have to somehow outweigh all the money they spent trying to get it. And the only way something could be that valuable was if it was neccesary for human survival/expansion.

Jake does say at the end of the movie "most of the aliens were forced to return to their dying planet": whether the human race needs the unobtanium to survive though is entirely up in the air.

 

[HollywoodH17]

And why did all the Na'vi arrows bounce harmlessly off the jets at first, and then at the end they are blasting straight through the cockpit windows?

They came from a steep angle better suited for penetration, building up force as they went, already had considerable speed, and they hit a larger piece of glass than the windows you saw get scratched and whatnot earlier in the movie when they tried their arrows. It's obvious in that part though that they simply couldn't get a proper hit with the proper angle, not did they have enough force in the impact because they came from beneath and the initial velocity was zero; the shooters were stationary, as opposed to flying some LSD-Dragons and coming from above with high velocity before they even fired their arrows. Simple 8th grade physics. This would give the arrows high initial velocity before the force of the bow is applied increasing the potential force of impact.

So it's definitely possible, just not probable, but it's a Sci-Fi, so they find ways...

Unless the military decided bullet-proof glass was for pansies, I still don't buy it.

Why would bullet-proof glass be necessary for an operation that involves research and mining?

 

[Duffy13]

Anyone else notice that they had the technology to create and maintain a wireless link to an Avatar body but not the ability to track it? (Hint: Generally the former requires the latter.)

That's the only plot hole I found.

As to the weaponry choices: I would say that aside from a few pieces of heavy machinery (the digger things, the shuttle, and the bigger gunship) Every other piece of tech looked to be light or entirely lower tech. They had two pieces that shouted "tank" and those were destroyed appropriately with explosives.

Anyways, my logic being they still appear to use rocket propulsion, and moving heavy shit is ridiculously expensive and resource consuming. Considering the probable options I would think it makes sense to base your military around a few pieces of very strong and over powered vehicles and have the rest be cheap/expendable.

And when a ten foot tall humanoid uses a proportionally sized bow to shoot you, it's like getting hit by a ballista, not a normal arrow.

 

[rex922]

also how if their atmosphere isnt oxygen (im assuming its not oxygen cause human die in it) then how are there fires and explosions... not to get too technical but oxygen vital to fire...

Maybe its not the oxygen content in the air but the co2 content in the air since co2 is in fact poisonous.

 

[Commissar Sae]

I'll do some rudementary physics here, the angle is a help sure, but at the same time you have a bow being fired by a 10 foot tall uber-strong killing machine. Its firing like a Javelin from a psycho-strung ballista. This isn't quite like a human vs a tank, more like a ballista vs an armored car. (something I think we need to see tested.)
And yeah, it was a bit of a Phyrric victory for the Na'vi, but when the alternative was the genocide of their species. A few thousand vs several million if not billion seems acceptable.

Sorry, not buying it..
woodland Arrow < TANK/ARMORED VEHICLE.

Also, I'm not sure where people keep getting this "Genocide" stuff.
This was not a Genocidal campaign... their goal was not to wipe the Na'vi from the face of pandora...
They wanted ONE specific thing.. unobtainium, found in ONE specific place. The Na'vi were in the way, so they opted to try to remove them forcibly. That final effort with the bombing run was meant to demoralize the Na'vi not wipe them out, otherwise I'm pretty certain they could have just performed some sort of Nuclear bombardment from orbit, which I have to wonder why they didn't bother to do so in the first place.. I mean, if you have the technology to travel 5 years across space to wage war on indigenious lifeforms, clone new life forms with hybrid dna, and transfer a living beings consciousness INTO that cloned new hybrid lifeform, surely you can nuke an area and still harvest what you need through the radiation.

Either way, once the humans had the unobtainium beneath the life tree or whatever, they wouldn't be arsed to stick around.. they would have left and the Na'vi could have rebuilt in peace.

Nuclear genocide is bad for public opinion. This is a company we're talking about, Imagine a modern company openly bombing a region to get their resources, the shareholders would bail faster than rats from a sinking boat. So Cultural genocide and the destruction of their very way of life was deemed more publicly acceptable under the veneer of "civilization being brought to the savages." Also considering the makeshift bomb they had to make to try to destroy the hub, I doubt the company had access to top grade military hardware. (bringing us back to the choppers vs arrows argument.)
The thing is the tree thing the humans were going to bomb was a very real source of global interconnection between all life on the planet. It would have been like lobotimizing the planet.

Back to the arrow thing. Keep in mind the average longbow had the power to punch through the plate mail covering a knights leg, through his flesh, through the armour on the other side and keep going into the horses flank. This isn't 30 pounds of force here, A longbow could have up to 180 pounds and the Na'vi bows have a greater draw than that. Also the larger ship was likely better armoured than the smaller transport gunships. Cab't remember if the cockpit for the carrirer was ever punctured.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

Nuclear genocide is bad for public opinion. This is a company we're talking about, Imagine a modern company openly bombing a region to get their resources, the shareholders would bail faster than rats from a sinking boat. So Cultural genocide and the destruction of their very way of life was deemed more publicly acceptable under the veneer of "civilization being brought to the savages." Also considering the makeshift bomb they had to make to try to destroy the hub, I doubt the company had access to top grade military hardware. (bringing us back to the choppers vs arrows argument.)

So you honestly think humans living on a dying world (assumably) 5 YEARS of CRYOSLEEP away from what would otherwise be considered an ass-backwards planet full of savage giant creatures really A.) would care about the plight of the Na'vi to FORM a publically acceptable opinion, and B.) would even hear much about the place to begin with? I doubt there would be much media coverage...

Honestly the corporation would have been able to spin whatever story they wanted, painted the Na'vi as an agressive savage race (like was done with the Native Americans back in the early days of America where every "civilized" white person thought the Indians were savage scalping monsters who killed women and children and had all manner of strange superstitions that drove their blood lust). Who was going to contest this? Hell, now they have PROOF to corroborate their story... "look at what they did.. they attacked us and we barely escaped with our lives! we tried to bring them peace!"

Anyone who was friendly enough with the Na'vi to contest that statement openly is either DEAD, or living as an Avatar back on Pandora.

 

[Soushi]

#1: who knows. They probably hadn;t done anything worthy of being accepted by teh Na'vi so they were kicked off Pandora. But who knows, some of them may have stayed behind, you never find out. Just have to wait for teh second one.
#2: Was his Avatar killed? I didn't think so, just shot in teh shoulder. He looked like he was in a lot of pain, he probably wasn't thinking clearly and stumbled off somewhere and passed out,, i dunno.

Here is another plot hole though...at teh end that scientist who was Jake's mole in the base, he is seen to be one of teh ones staying behind. How? he doesn't have an Avatar, and the base can only have so many supplies. How will he survive in an atmosphere he can;t breather, unless he grows himself an avatar, but i get teh impression teh the na'vi might object to that..

 

[Soushi]

Plot holes?
One for me is the fact that a human betrayed his fellow human to help aliens.
I personally don't understand why he would do it.

So he isn't betraying RDA, he's betraying his race!

and...what is wrong with that? You follow your own heart, and if there are people doing something that you see as evil, and you are willing to fight them, then you fight them, no matter what thier genetic structure is.