Pokemon Sun and Moon

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CritialGaming

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Weaver said:
Supposedly, if you let the chain of summons go on long enough there is a higher chance you'll get a pokemon with a hidden ability or a shiny. But for people like me who don't give a fuck about those things, it sucks dicks.
I also don't care about those things lol. I've never dove deep enough to care about EV or IV points either, and really don't want to. And while I know they have a very dedicated and passionate fanbase that does care about these things - I can't help but feel the casual Pokemon players such as ourselves must outnumber them by a high margin.

If that is the justification for this feature, they should have it be a late game / end game feature. "Oh you got all the stamps, pokemon know how strong a trainer you are and will now call in their friends for help!" there's a story justification.[/quote]

The thing is, they already had a mechanic for this. If you complete the local pokedex you get a ticket that increases the chance of hatching or getting shinys in the wild. So people who cared could hunt them if they wanted them.

Not only is this current mechanic stupid, but it isn't ever explained or told to the player in game. Pokemon has always been full of hidden bullshit and features, and I don't understand why they continue to do that shit. Hidden abilities? Hidden Stats? Natures? Shinys? Why don't they explain this shit to people?
 

Wrex Brogan

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-looks at thread-

...fucking hell guys, it's a game about catching adorable critters and becoming best friends with 'em as you fight an evil corporation. Chillax thine mammories, and quit shit-kicking over 'demographics' or whatever. God damn.

*ahem* personally, I'm loving this new gen - especially the Alolan forms. Yeah, fuck you Alakazam, you can't Psychic my Muk now! I'm also quite enjoying the story of this one, and found it to be a rather refreshing change of pace to the other games with the focus on the various Trials rather than Gym battles (and the new end-game stuff ties into it all pretty interestingly too).

That said, I've still got a few quirks with the game - like... shit, why is everything so slow this generation? Muk, a pokemon characterized in the first gen as a bulky-but-slow physical attacker, damn-near outspeeds half the pokemon that've been introduced. While a lot of 'em tend to be quite bulky themselves, it's just weird that the number of non-legendary Alolan pokemon with a base speed higher than 70 is surprisingly low.

Also, slightly disappointed with Decidueye - advertised as a 'speedy mixed attacker', yet base-70 speed and a moveset that is entirely physical attacks doesn't really come to mind as a 'speedy mixed attacker'. Plus because of the general bulkiness of the Alolan pokemon, it doesn't have the punch to reliably 2-hit KO many of them, and lacks the bulk to take a hit in return. Ah well, at least it's design is pretty cool (and Rowlet is adorable in Pokemon Refresh).

Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
EIGHTEEN ELEKIDS, 6 ELECTABUZZ. GOD DAMMIT, LET ME CATCH THE ONE I STARTED THE FIGHT WITH.

Also there's a handful of pokemon that can only be encountered through the S.O.S battles, which is annoying. Though apparently you can also encounter shit like a level 8 Salamence in some areas because of it...
 

Shoggoth2588

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I've put about...19 hours into the game so far and while the game does start kinda slowly, I still found it to be really charming. It's also packed to the gills with Pokemon: I spent 2 hours on route 1 looking for Grubbin but instead found things like Ledyba, Caterpie, Pikipek, Trumpgoose and, Pichu. Anyway, it is kinda weird that the Ride Pokemon and Rotom stick around but aren't technically yours. It would be nice to at least see something about Lapras, Rotom and, Charizard in my Dex after I get the Amazon Dash Button that summons them.

When it comes to the game telling your about weaknesses, I don't see that as being too obtrusive, especially when it comes to peculiar type combinations like Ghost/Grass or, Steel/Electric. What I find more annoying are the Z-Moves which are effective to use but they have the same problem that Summons/GFs had from about Final Fantasy VII - XII (and probably XIII, I don't remember it as much): You press a button to make a strong attack happen and wind up in an unskippable animation for X seconds which seems fine the first few times but just gets to the point where the novelty wears out and you just want to get on with the fight.

I'm really liking Pokemon Sun so far and I see myself taking it all the way to the end-game. It's kind of an ass that I can't transfer from XYORAS to Sun/Moon without buying into Pokebank but I was never that big into that aspect of the games anyway.

I forgot to mention this: In every other Pokemon game before now, the Pokemon School seemed utterly pointless and that's if you even bothered to set foot into the place. In THIS game, it felt almost like a gym. Fight 4 kids, maybe read a blackboard if you want, then fight a teacher who put up more of a fight than the last few 1st badge gym leaders I can recall at the moment.
 

xaszatm

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Sep 4, 2010
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Jeez...none of you are going to like the huge reveal in this game then...

Your favorite games from Red/Blue all the way to X/Y? They're all destroyed. Yes, continuing from the Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire plot of this universe not being the same universe of the previous games before it, we are told that the Ultra Beasts invaded the old world and pretty much murdered every living soul. That means every Pokemon, every gym leader, every champion all died offscreen by the Ultra Beasts. And the Pokedex goes into detail how. UB-01 mind controls humans and cause them to go crazy and kill everything. UB-02 slaughters everyone in its path. UB-03 destroyed all forms of electrical power. UB-04 destroyed freaking skyscrapers by either crushing or slicing them. And UB-05 swallowed entire oceans (so...Team Magma victory?). The only two survivors from this universe was Looker from Pearl/Diamond and Annabeth from Pokemon Emerald. And they were survivors solely because the Ultra Beasts can track where these "fallers" go into new dimensions. Like Sun/Moon.

I personally enjoyed this game but MAN can I see people getting pissed at this information.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
If I recall correctly if you kill the original the chain stops but I might be misremembering that.
 

Wrex Brogan

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xaszatm said:
Jeez...none of you are going to like the huge reveal in this game then...

Your favorite games from Red/Blue all the way to X/Y? They're all destroyed. Yes, continuing from the Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire plot of this universe not being the same universe of the previous games before it, we are told that the Ultra Beasts invaded the old world and pretty much murdered every living soul. That means every Pokemon, every gym leader, every champion all died offscreen by the Ultra Beasts. And the Pokedex goes into detail how. UB-01 mind controls humans and cause them to go crazy and kill everything. UB-02 slaughters everyone in its path. UB-03 destroyed all forms of electrical power. UB-04 destroyed freaking skyscrapers by either crushing or slicing them. And UB-05 swallowed entire oceans (so...Team Magma victory?). The only two survivors from this universe was Looker from Pearl/Diamond and Annabeth from Pokemon Emerald. And they were survivors solely because the Ultra Beasts can track where these "fallers" go into new dimensions. Like Sun/Moon.

I personally enjoyed this game but MAN can I see people getting pissed at this information.
see, everytime I've seen all that come up I always see 'Theory' with it - is it actually stated anywhere in the game? I've finished the thing and I saw some 'maybes', but nothing definite or concrete.

especially considering Looker isn't a Faller? From all the post-game questline, he and Nanu were working with a Faller who got killed by Guzzlord, and Anabel's existence doesn't really prove the 'old reality got destroyed' since the Ultra Wormholes seem to be able to transport shit around the same plane as well. Destroyed another universe? Possibly, and as another post-game event goes the Ultra Wormholes can phase into other realities (i.e. enter Moon from Sun, or Sun from Moon), but nothing I saw was explicitly 'The R/B/Y timeline is destroyed'.

Maybe I missed a book somewhere or didn't read a conversation right, but... yeah, that theory just feels like the usual 'Over-reading Fan Theory' rather than anything concrete. Kinda like a lot of the stuff people were coming up with during the announcements for Sun and Moon itself, really.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Wrex Brogan said:
xaszatm said:
Jeez...none of you are going to like the huge reveal in this game then...

Your favorite games from Red/Blue all the way to X/Y? They're all destroyed. Yes, continuing from the Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire plot of this universe not being the same universe of the previous games before it, we are told that the Ultra Beasts invaded the old world and pretty much murdered every living soul. That means every Pokemon, every gym leader, every champion all died offscreen by the Ultra Beasts. And the Pokedex goes into detail how. UB-01 mind controls humans and cause them to go crazy and kill everything. UB-02 slaughters everyone in its path. UB-03 destroyed all forms of electrical power. UB-04 destroyed freaking skyscrapers by either crushing or slicing them. And UB-05 swallowed entire oceans (so...Team Magma victory?). The only two survivors from this universe was Looker from Pearl/Diamond and Annabeth from Pokemon Emerald. And they were survivors solely because the Ultra Beasts can track where these "fallers" go into new dimensions. Like Sun/Moon.

I personally enjoyed this game but MAN can I see people getting pissed at this information.
see, everytime I've seen all that come up I always see 'Theory' with it - is it actually stated anywhere in the game? I've finished the thing and I saw some 'maybes', but nothing definite or concrete.

especially considering Looker isn't a Faller? From all the post-game questline, he and Nanu were working with a Faller who got killed by Guzzlord, and Anabel's existence doesn't really prove the 'old reality got destroyed' since the Ultra Wormholes seem to be able to transport shit around the same plane as well. Destroyed another universe? Possibly, and as another post-game event goes the Ultra Wormholes can phase into other realities (i.e. enter Moon from Sun, or Sun from Moon), but nothing I saw was explicitly 'The R/B/Y timeline is destroyed'.

Maybe I missed a book somewhere or didn't read a conversation right, but... yeah, that theory just feels like the usual 'Over-reading Fan Theory' rather than anything concrete. Kinda like a lot of the stuff people were coming up with during the announcements for Sun and Moon itself, really.
Hm...maybe i'm misremembering it? The Looker I'm talking about is the amnesiac one from ORAS, btw. not the one here. I recall this information being relayed to you before you go to fight Ultra Lusamine but it could be the overeactionary fanbase that pushed me to that conclusion. I'm doing my Moon campaign right now so I"ll be able to figure that out myself soon enough.
 

Saelune

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Kibeth41 said:
Okay yeah... Everything I took your word for in the OP ended up being exaggerated bull. The beginning is a bit longer, but not '2 hours'. Even then, it's just story elements, not tutorials. The hand-holding seems to just be referring to elements which make the game slightly easier than past iterations, with objective markers, Pokedex conveniences and listed typings in battle.

It's now pretty evident that your opinion is just a product of wanting to be 'right' in your initially overly cynical opinions.
I could say the same to you. But if you want to just be confrontational instead of having a discussion about it, thats your choice. Ive seen enough people echo my sentiments, and ofcourse there are always going to be die hard fans who accept everything fed to them, no matter how tart.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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I love and hate the game.

There are a lot of things I love about it. With some exceptions, a lot of the pokemon are actually good looking. Mostly, they're animals or plants of some kind, that are monsters - rather than fucking humanoids all over the place, or weird things like a set of just two gears floating in the sky. That said, there are still some weird ones, but I guess there always will be.
Pokemon seem to have more HP, more defences, less damage, or a mix of all the above. Even 10 levels higher than an opponent, I find I'm often not guaranteed a 1HKO, unless its a super effective move, or a Snorlax body slam. Hell, starting the game a Litten with ember took 4 hits to beat a Rowlette. With its super effective move. I can only imagine had I used scratch like in the originals. I find this makes fights more interesting in total, because even if I've got a main deathbot or something, I can't just 1HKO my way through 30 trainers and only go to the PC for PP. You'll slowly take attrition damage, and this encourages people to use more of their party, more often, and adds more choice to the game in terms of who you use, when and why.
The graphics are nice, and the removal of HMs for the Pokemon summons has been a long time coming. Maybe not the best way to have handled them overall, but still good. The characters, as a broader look, are kind of cool and fun - and in general that plays through the whole game, with the team obviously having had fun making this and making it a less serious game in many aspects.
The slight changeup from Gyms to challenges is also pretty fun. It was getting hard for them to make new puzzles for the gyms I felt, and the formula there was starting to get a bit up tight. As things are now, it feels a lot more fresh and fun.

The downsides though?
Dear god, this game isn't hand holdy, it is literally on-rails. You're not kidding about 2 hours to just get your starting pokemon [As opposed to maybe 10 minutes in red, at most]. And probably 1.5 of those two hours is spent in an incredibly long cutscene. You don't even get to play much, and what little you do get to play, is walking.
I've played a LOT more from then on, and things do get better, but the game constantly interrupts you and stops you in a cutscene.
Its also terrible with false choices. "Go see character x to do x, or see character y to do y", really means "Go see character y". Character x does nothing and just gives you a reason why they can't do anything, despite literally 5 minutes ago the game telling you to go see them and do something with them. The linearity is normal. It hides it FAR worse than previously.
Some of the dialogue and characters is also just downright cringeworthy with how over the top stereotypical it is. Like, holy hell.
Additionally, not a huge fan of the mechanical map design level. It feels like the trend that started with Black/White, of the world being mostly a set piece with no mechanical point, has continued on. There are a couple of cool bits and pieces, but so much of it also seems to just be in the way "But it looks cool" stuff as well. To compensate for this, a lot of it is non-continuous. There isn't an interconnected overworld, there's a bunch of zones that I'm 75% sure probably don't actually piece together properly, and are made the way they are so that things can look cool, rather than feeling like a continuous world. Almost all of the actual exploration of the world is gone, and its just "Look at the pretty! Now follow this very linear path to your next destination". There is some side stuff to do and look around at, but that's very short, and fairly rare.

So, overall, its a new-gen pokemon game. The strengths of the game have been improved, and the weaknesses have gotten worse. Overall its a good and fun game, and I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean its perfect. Its still got its problems.
 

WeepingAngels

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My copy comes in today. 2 Hours to get your starter??? That might be a deal breaker. I mean it takes no more than 15 minutes in Omega Ruby (which I am currently playing). I can't even imagine it taking 8 times as long.
 

Yoshi178

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Wrex Brogan said:
That said, I've still got a few quirks with the game - like... shit, why is everything so slow this generation? Muk, a pokemon characterized in the first gen as a bulky-but-slow physical attacker, damn-near outspeeds half the pokemon that've been introduced. While a lot of 'em tend to be quite bulky themselves, it's just weird that the number of non-legendary Alolan pokemon with a base speed higher than 70 is surprisingly low.
2 Words: Battle Royale.

Play that game type and the slow speeds will make ALOT more sense to you.
 

Saelune

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WeepingAngels said:
My copy comes in today. 2 Hours to get your starter??? That might be a deal breaker. I mean it takes no more than 15 minutes in Omega Ruby (which I am currently playing). I can't even imagine it taking 8 times as long.
It wasnt 2 hours for me, but it was 20 minutes, even with rushing through it. But it takes a long time before you feel like you can do much, and even then I feel very limited.
 

WeepingAngels

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Saelune said:
WeepingAngels said:
My copy comes in today. 2 Hours to get your starter??? That might be a deal breaker. I mean it takes no more than 15 minutes in Omega Ruby (which I am currently playing). I can't even imagine it taking 8 times as long.
It wasnt 2 hours for me, but it was 20 minutes, even with rushing through it. But it takes a long time before you feel like you can do much, and even then I feel very limited.
That's a huge difference, 20 minutes to 2 hours even with rushing.
 

Saelune

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WeepingAngels said:
Saelune said:
WeepingAngels said:
My copy comes in today. 2 Hours to get your starter??? That might be a deal breaker. I mean it takes no more than 15 minutes in Omega Ruby (which I am currently playing). I can't even imagine it taking 8 times as long.
It wasnt 2 hours for me, but it was 20 minutes, even with rushing through it. But it takes a long time before you feel like you can do much, and even then I feel very limited.
That's a huge difference, 20 minutes to 2 hours even with rushing.
It took 20 minutes to get my starter, but after 2 hours of playing the game, I still felt stuck in a hand-holding tutorial. Hell, I still feel like I am. In red and blue, once you got past the Old Man who teaches you to catch Pokemon, I felt like I was let to play the game without being told what to do all the time.
 

CritialGaming

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7 hours and 52 minutes of playtime, and i'm still bogged down by tutorials forcing me down a very linear path. Sun and Moon are starting to look like Final Fantasy 13 with each passing day.
 

Joccaren

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WeepingAngels said:
My copy comes in today. 2 Hours to get your starter??? That might be a deal breaker. I mean it takes no more than 15 minutes in Omega Ruby (which I am currently playing). I can't even imagine it taking 8 times as long.
Two hours is a bit of an exaggeration, but it was close to an hour for me, and I was sitting there playing with my partner and making sure she could see what was going on.

Spoilers not for content, I keep it vague and mostly just say cutscene or the basic actions you can take, but for length. A list of what it takes to get your first pokemon:
It starts off with a 3 minute, not fast forwardable cutscene of the Professor welcoming you. And by not fast forwardable I mean you can't just press A to have the text appear and move on to the next text message, its synced with animations and takes a while.
Then, you select your name and base image, which has more cutscene to go along with it.
Then, there's a story cutscene that goes for about another minute.
Then its another 2 minute cutscene of your mother and pet.
Then, after 7 minutes of playing this damned game, you finally get to take your first action. And all that it is, is to get out of bed, and walk downstairs.
Then its another 40 second cutscene.
Then your second interaction for the game; walk 10 steps closer to the door.
Then another cutscene for 2 minutes
Then a small walk upstairs and collecting a hat and bag.
Then another minute of cutscene, which includes you automatically walking downstairs with no control.
Then you get to walk out the door, and try to find the professor. He gave you no instructions on how to follow him, but he tells you if you're going the wrong way, then a good 5-10 second fade to black and put you closer to him.
Then its another 30 second cutscene and teleportation.
Then you get to walk up a very linear path for another 30 seconds.
Then its another couple of minutes of cutscene.
Then you get your first real opportunity to do any level of exploring; you're in a small town, and can look around a bit, but need to walk out the top end of town. And yes, this one small town with maybe 4 buildings counts as a lot of exploration for this point in the game. Until then, for the first nearly 15 minutes of the game, you've been confined to your house, and a very short, linear road with no features.
Once you've crossed the town, you walk up that curvy road from the demo. Its empty this time. During this there are a couple of short, 5 second cutscenes that I'll just discount.
Then there's a 30 second cutscene. Then you walk 5 steps. Then another 30 second cutscene.
Then you get a staggered walk for another 10 steps or so.
Then another couple minutes of cutscene.
Then literally 2 steps of walking, and another 2 minute cutscene.
Then you finally get to pick your pokemon.

After that, its a short battle with your friend/rival, and a ton more cutscenes before another battle the same, and a ton more cutscenes, then a shopping trip, then a ton more cutscenes...

It takes you 20-30 minutes to get your starter, but that isn't the start of you being able to use it or explore freely. You're stuck in cutscene after cutscene for hours in the game, and that's trying to rush through it. The game slowly speeds up and gives you more freedom to do stuff, but slowly is the key word, and you'll still be blocked by cutscenes constantly, and need to follow the story - which is more obnoxious than in previous pokemon games where you also had to follow the story, because the story is far more defined now.

The game is still good and enjoyable, but it has its problems getting started. It takes about twice as long as Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire to get started. The biggest problem though is that even after you get your pokemon and can start playing... You're not able to actually just run off on your adventure like in Ruby/Sapphire. You are railroaded through a ton of cutscenes and are very limited in what you can do during that time.

But there are also a lot of things to like about the new generation, and gameplay changes that are pretty nice. There are also problems though.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Yoshi178 said:
Wrex Brogan said:
That said, I've still got a few quirks with the game - like... shit, why is everything so slow this generation? Muk, a pokemon characterized in the first gen as a bulky-but-slow physical attacker, damn-near outspeeds half the pokemon that've been introduced. While a lot of 'em tend to be quite bulky themselves, it's just weird that the number of non-legendary Alolan pokemon with a base speed higher than 70 is surprisingly low.
2 Words: Battle Royale.

Play that game type and the slow speeds will make ALOT more sense to you.
I have, and by the time all the slow pokemon have attacked I've destroyed half of them with my super-fast pokemon (especially since Royale uses a lot of Swamperts and Torterras anyway, which are still faster than Alolan pokemon). Hell even using fragile shit like Aerodactyl and *ahem* a certain spoiler pokemon and I'm still coming out 5 - 1. If I can kill one before they kill me/kill one before they all gang up on me and spoil their plan, it's still a solid strategy.
 

totheendofsin

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Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
it's worth noting that the SOS mechanic is the new "chaining" mechanic with each time help is called it has a better chance for having the hidden ability, having better IVs, or being shiny

edit: On topic, I finished the game last night and I think it might be my favorite pokemon game since second gen. It does take some time to get moving but once the story picks up it's probably the best story the series has had. I haven't dug much into the post game but it seems like it's going to be better than X and Y's post game
 

Weaver

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totheendofsin said:
Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
it's worth noting that the SOS mechanic is the new "chaining" mechanic with each time help is called it has a better chance for having the hidden ability, having better IVs, or being shiny
Except I'm a causal and I don't care about those things so it's just annoying to me lol