Therumancer said:
The big question is "would you kill a bunch of innocent civilians to maintain or establish a cover so you could save millions". There is only one answer to that question and it is "yes". If you answer no, then basically you fail and take society down with you.
Hrmm. Put simply with no other variables I suppose I would agree, but outside of hypothetical situations there are many other ways to look; put succinctly, given a choice, there is always another option. That's the space where optimists can reside in the situation, without having to sacrifice rationality. (Really it's a fuzzy area as to where it stops being "rational" to hope for something better.)
That said, your statements do appear to be in contrast with the article in that the article argues that without context the above powerful situation simply doesn't exist. Who is this man, and would participating in this slaughter of hundreds really save millions, and if so, how? Is success guaranteed, and if not, what's the risk of failure? Is there truly no better way? Moreover, it can be argued that, knowing the future outcome of the scenario, the situation is doubly pointless; your actions as player are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Granted, it's the intention that matters but nonetheless one wonders what the CIA guy hoped to accomplish, and how.[/quote]
It's like this. Part of being realistic and "gritty" is that there is little room for optimism. There is no room for guarantees. It's all about the big picture, and the biggest bastard winds up winning, you just hope he's the one who represents the right side.
Think of it as like Lord Of The Rings type "high fantasy" with clear cut good and evil, and where the good guys can be noble and straightforward for the most part, and say "Dragon Age Origins" type dark fantasy (I'd use Michael Moorcock's writings as an example but many are probably not familiar with him) where you need to save the world despite itself, and while a huge threat looms about to destroy everyone you wind up needing to do things like decide which of two corrupt politicians get to rule the dwarf kingdom before it can go to war, when both are absolute B@stards in their own way.
Modern Warfare 2 is sort of like the dark fantasy version of James Bond. James Bond has a lisecnse to kill, meaning the goverment says it's okay for him to do exactly what the guy in MW2 is doing (albeit for MI-6), it's just that being campy you never see him do things like this, it's all implication based on other missions.
Modern Warfare 2 is sort of like what happens if James Bond-type stuff was to meet a much more real and gritty world. As far as the level of threat being faced... well I'm not a shooter fan so I have not played it. However the hype for the game is that the protaganist winds up operating internationally with setpieces that would make James Bond proud, and even goes into pure science fiction for some space action, and there is an exploding space station involved....
No offense but in the context of the game it definatly seems like the stakes are that high. Is success guaranteed? Of course not, nothing in life is guaranteed, but getting a man on the inside is the best chance you'd have in dealing with an organization on this obvious level (which all told from the scope of the terrorist threat implied would probably give SPECTRE a run for it's money).
Given it's contreversial nature I've read some stuff about the bits in question, and honestly it does not seem to be saying "oh joyeous slaughter, killing civilians is such a wonderful thing to do" but rather making a point about doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, and how argueing against the ends justifying the means sounds great on paper but all the moral principles in the world don't matter when it comes down to "us vs. them" and the rubber meets the road.
They pretty much removed all the glitz and camp from modern adventure like "James Bond" and show it like it could happen, with a realistic take on how this stuff would go down, as ugly as it might be.
Besides, as I also said in my previous response: how exactly is this something new?
The article writer implies that games up until this point had been "training us not to kill civilians". Really? What about all these sandbox crime games. What about games like prototype. Heck, what about Origins "Crusader" series (Crusader No Remorse, and Crusader No Regret) where you would brutally dispatch civilian techs and stuff to steal their money in the course of "cleansing" corperate bases and such.
To me the article seems off kilter, and given what I've seen of gaming I fail to see how MW2 is any more contreversial than anything we've seen for years. Granted people have been criticizing the entire issue of games where you victimize innocent people for a very long time BUT the fact that people are making a big deal about this one leads me to believe someone is trying to make a contreversy where there isn't one to generate hype.