[Politics] Doctor allowed Patient to Walk Outside, wrongly arrested for Stealing Medical Equipment

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

I don't know much about US hospital regulations and law, but I know that in Sweden all parts outside of the hospital, like park areas and parking lots, are also considered parts of the hospital for juridical matters. So here you could go to the parking lot to pick up something in your car or take a walk with an IV, as long as it has been cleared with medical and nursing staff.

To the best of my knowledge not being a health care attorney, that's the case in the US as well, though the definition of a hospital campus was amended a couple years back to account for provider-based facilities because hospitals were screwing patients on Medicare (spoiler alert). As far as I know, disconnecting patients from IV's so they can walk hospital grounds, and walking grounds only with supervising personnel, aren't legal requirements, but they are common policy for lawsuit CYA. If Dukes' account is accurate, he sought consultation so he wasn't AMA, wandering, or potentially eloping.

Though, according to the cops (for what that's worth) he didn't seek consultation [https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-patient-hooked-iv-arrested-walk-michigan-hospital/story?id=64045701].

EDIT: None of which vindicate the security guard's behavior. He should have asked them to wait at the door and called up to verify he had permission to go outdoors, instead of going straight to "they're stealing shit".

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I don't know much about US hospital regulations and law, but I know that in Sweden all parts outside of the hospital, like park areas and parking lots, are also considered parts of the hospital for juridical matters. So here you could go to the parking lot to pick up something in your car or take a walk with an IV, as long as it has been cleared with medical and nursing staff.

To the best of my knowledge not being a health care attorney, that's the case in the US as well, though the definition of a hospital campus was amended a couple years back to account for provider-based facilities because hospitals were screwing patients on Medicare (spoiler alert). As far as I know, disconnecting patients from IV's so they can walk hospital grounds, and walking grounds only with supervising personnel, aren't legal requirements, but they are common policy for lawsuit CYA. If Dukes' account is accurate, he sought consultation so he wasn't AMA, wandering, or potentially eloping.

Though, according to the cops (for what that's worth) he didn't seek consultation [https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-patient-hooked-iv-arrested-walk-michigan-hospital/story?id=64045701].

EDIT: None of which vindicate the security guard's behavior. He should have asked them to wait at the door and called up to verify he had permission to go outdoors, instead of going straight to "they're stealing shit".

It is all in the wording, the article does not state that he didn't ask for permission to walk around outside, it stated that they did not give him permission to leave the hospital, which includes outside immediately around the hospital on the grounds, to which the man claimed he never left until the security guard forced him to.

In a police report of the incident, the hospital security guard told officers that after he questioned Dukes about why he was leaving the hospital attached to an IV, Dukes and the two men with him "got in my face" and began cursing at him. The security guard told police he felt "extremely threatened," acccording to the report.
Dukes said that the only time he left the hospital property was when the security guard called him over to his vehicle parked in the street outside the hospital.
He said that after attempting to explain that his doctor was aware he had gone outside for a walk after spending several days at the hospital, the security guard responded, "Well I don't care what they told you. As far as I'm concerned, this is hospital equipment and you're attempting to steal it."
In the cellphone video Dukes posted online, the security guard is heard telling police officers, "He's stealing hospital property, basically, by leaving. I don't care if he was coming back, that's stealing."
(MORE: Colorado police officer who pulled gun on black man picking up trash quits force)
Dukes and his two companions, Marqwandrick Morrison and Credale Miles, were arrested on charges of disorderly conduct.
"Our investigation revealed that at no time did any doctor or nurse give that patient or any patient permission to leave the hospital while still hooked to an IV machine," Freeport police officials said in a statement to ABC News.
Dukes said he has filed a complaint with the city.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-patient-hooked-iv-arrested-walk-michigan-hospital/story?id=64045701

Most likely he did ask either his attending physician or nurse if he could get up and get some air and they agreed, as is common, which he was doing when the security guard yelled at him to come over to the security guards car, which would have been in the road or lot and that would force the patient to move away from the building and courtyard in order to comply with the security guard at that time. Asking to get up and walk around and get some air is not asking to leave, and the wording is important here.

I also expect that it would cause anyone irritation and even anger to be falsely accused of stealing when they are sick and in the hospital, and he should have been rightly agitated by a security guard's inappropriate unnecessary escalation of conflict. All officers, security or otherwise should understand that is not an appropriate way to approach any situation.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

It is all in the wording, the article does not state that he didn't ask for permission to walk around outside, it stated that they did not give him permission to leave the hospital, which includes outside immediately around the hospital on the grounds, to which the man claimed he never left until the security guard forced him to.

Hence the "for what that's worth". Public statements by police departments are wont for imprecise wording in situations where precision matters. It's still entirely possible the department spokesperson meant "hospital" in the sense of "building" rather than "campus", as that is the most common use of the term even if that is not the legal definition. And likewise, it's possible Dukes didn't specify he wanted to go outdoors when he asked to go for a walk, the attendant misunderstood his intent, and/or they didn't specify for him to stay indoors. It's possible for both of these statements to simultaneously be true while assuming positive intent of all involved actors, if the discrepancy is due to imprecise communication at any point.

Either way, the salient points are that he was still on grounds, and the guard acted inappropriately.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

The fact is that it is illegal to have a IV drip attached outside of a hospital in the US. Or the fact that is illegally for a hospital anywhere in the US to allow a patient to walk outside with one. Or the fact that a patient not discharge cannot leave the premise under any circumstances unless discharged agreed by a doctor is signed. Or to discharge patient with a steroid antibiotic IV drip as it's consider by law to be administer under supervision.As that drug is considered a controlled substance which cannot legally be in the position of an non-healthcare personal. This is protocol in all hospitals in the US.

I can also tell you that hospitals do place security personal in the entrance way. They place a security desks right near when you walk in the ER .Just before you run into the main reception desk or right after you enter thought the ambiance drop off. Simply because LEGAL 2,000 happen A LOT (they try to harm self or others). I also know of this hospital, it's huge and if he was in the parking lot that is one large parking lot. They also used to have a third party contracted in charge of the security cameras on the hospital grounds. Lastly this is not a very safe area of Chicago and like all hospitals people try to steal anything all the time.

Beyond this I personally want to wait for the independent investigation report to find out what their findings are.

See I can understand 90% of this, as controlled susbtance laws are serious business but the part where they fucked up is removing the IV without a doctor, the man could have an infection or bleed out because of this stupid decision. That should really be the lead, not buried in the details.