[politics] Neo Nazi's trying to sell Air to Air missle on WhatsApp?!

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Seriously.. First of all how did they get this missile and second, selling these sorts of things is apparently a " thing" on WhatsApp?!

Italian Police Seize Air-to-Air Missile, Dozens of Firearms in Raids on Neo-Nazis

The Italian General Investigations and Special Operations Division (DIGOS) seized an arsenal of weaponry ranging from bolt-action rifles and automatic weapons to a "combat-ready" air-to-air missile from a neo-Nazi group in a series of raids supported by police in Milan, Varese, Forli and Novara, the BBC reported on Monday.

In a statement to the BBC, police described the missile as "in perfect working order." According to the Drive, the missile is a French-made, semi-active radar-seeking Matra Super 530F, contained within a casing that identifies it as purchased by the Qatar Armed Forces in 1980. That year the Qatari government purchased 14 Dassault Mirage F1 fighter jets from France with armaments, though Qatar's F1s have largely been superseded in active service by Mirage 2000 jets that fire the newer MICA missiles, the Drive wrote.

According to Reuters, police said the neo-Nazis were communicating with possible customers via WhatsApp. Forza Nuova has denied any involvement in the arms-dealing plot or having current ties with the three suspects.

https://gizmodo.com/italian-police-seize-air-to-air-missile-dozens-of-fire-1836396339

Gun Sellers Are Advertising on Instagram and Directing Customers to Encrypted Chat Apps

Users on Instagram are advertising guns for sale despite the social network banning trade of weapons between individuals since 2016, according to a review of Instagram accounts.
Some Instagram accounts make clear in their bios and posts that they are interested in selling guns, but direct users away from the app and instead encourage them to use more secure communication methods to carry out a transaction. Motherboard has also obtained an internal document from Facebook, which owns Instagram, giving a more detailed understanding of what specific firearms related items it bans.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb94pb/gun-sellers-instagram-encrypted-messaging-apps

Facebook provides a home for illegal arms sales in Libya

Social media networks are providing a new avenue for the trade of illegal arms in Libya and Middle Eastern countries. Weapons like AK-47s and truck-mounted machine guns are being sold via sites including Facebook, WhatsApp, and Telegram, according to reports this week from BBC News and The New York Times. These reports are based on data collected by the specialist consultancy Armament Research Services (ARES) and commissioned by the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey. The researchers involved in the study call for more scrutiny of these channels.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/4/8/11391928/facebook-libya-illegal-weapons-market-whatsapp-telegram

So even though this is technically banned people are still using mainstream social media to traffic arms apparently. If these Neo Nazis were able to get their hands on an air to air missile, what else is out there in the hands of people who should be no where near them? Like we really need these things just out there to be bought, stolen and used by anyone.

 

[Pseudonym]

How did they get an air to air missile and who would want to illegally buy that? I presume you'd need an aircraft to make use of it and those are hard to hide. Or would somebody just strip it for spare parts or something?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

How did they get an air to air missile and who would want to illegally buy that? I presume you'd need an aircraft to make use of it and those are hard to hide. Or would somebody just strip it for spare parts or something?

I think only specific aircraft can fire it, though am not sure if it could be rigged to make some sort of terrorist bomb or something. Either way, the fact they had it at all is extremely disturbing to begin with. Yea I too would like to know how the hell they managed to obtain it in the first place, and if it was sold to them by someone in Qatar ( due to the Qatar markings) how did they get it into Italy? All of this just sounds so bizarre.

 

[Hawki]

So, what were they even going to use it against?

That aside, shit.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Could you imagine if it was antifa found doing this? We'd never hear the end of it from pearl-clutching cons. But par for the course with neo-nazi ideology. Albeit more brazen than ever.

 

[Satinavian]

So even though this is technically banned people are still using mainstream social media to traffic arms apparently. If these Neo Nazis were able to get their hands on an air to air missile, what else is out there in the hands of people who should be no where near them? Like we really need these things just out there to be bought, stolen and used by anyone.

Libya is still kinda in a low intensity civil war. At least Saudi Arabia and Turkey are supporting different factions strongly and shipping weapons there. It is possible but far from certain that Qatar does the same. But both Tukey and Saudi Arabia use a lot of weapons made by different Nato members for their forces and are prohibited from giving them away to some warlords. That is why most of this stuff is channeled through organized crime.

As for the social media aspect, well, Libya is not in a situation to have a gouvernment control social media, they don't even have a gouvernment that can control a third of tits official land mass. Also social media played a huge part in making the democratic revolutions of the Arab spring possible in the first place. The idea that a gouvernment that came to power via Twitter and Facebook would start to censor it now... well, it would cost them dearly in popularity if they could do it at all.

The air-to-air missile specifically ? Probably only landed on the black market because there was a possibility to steal one. To use it properly you would need an air force. And it should be way to expensive for improper use if sold for anything near the market value. Seems like the Nazi just wanted to act as fence.


There is a lot of weapon smuggling going on on the Mediterranean. Because of all the warlike situations with lots of irregular forces.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

So even though this is technically banned people are still using mainstream social media to traffic arms apparently. If these Neo Nazis were able to get their hands on an air to air missile, what else is out there in the hands of people who should be no where near them? Like we really need these things just out there to be bought, stolen and used by anyone.

Libya is still kinda in a low intensity civil war. At least Saudi Arabia and Turkey are supporting different factions strongly and shipping weapons there. It is possible but far from certain that Qatar does the same. But both Tukey and Saudi Arabia use a lot of weapons made by different Nato members for their forces and are prohibited from giving them away to some warlords. That is why most of this stuff is channeled through organized crime.

As for the social media aspect, well, Libya is not in a situation to have a gouvernment control social media, they don't even have a gouvernment that can control a third of tits official land mass. Also social media played a huge part in making the democratic revolutions of the Arab spring possible in the first place. The idea that a gouvernment that came to power via Twitter and Facebook would start to censor it now... well, it would cost them dearly in popularity if they could do it at all.

The air-to-air missile specifically ? Probably only landed on the black market because there was a possibility to steal one. To use it properly you would need an air force. And it should be way to expensive for improper use if sold for anything near the market value. Seems like the Nazi just wanted to act as fence.

There is a lot of weapon smuggling going on on the Mediterranean. Because of all the warlike situations with lots of irregular forces.

I thought social media controlled social media rather than the government, so it is up to Facebook to police what is on Facebook and WhatsApp to police what is on WhatsApp rather than needing the government to step in. This sort of thing should be flagged somehow right? Of course I am sure they use burner accounts, but wouldn't the social media apps have a way to block certain hashtags or search terms and flag it somehow in the system? Yes, I know they really suck at policing any of their apps, but I would think there would be some way to have this sort of thing autoflagged and shut down fairly quickly even if there is no functioning government in the region.

Since they were able to get it into Italy, how difficult would it be for them to move it through into other EU nations? I am just wondering how frequently arms trafficking is caught doing something like this. I mean not necessarily an air to air missile, as this in itself seems odd to begin with, but other types of arms say rocket launchers, firearms, grenades and such.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I think only specific aircraft can fire it, though am not sure if it could be rigged to make some sort of terrorist bomb or something.

Semi-active radar means it needs an active radar attached to something else (normally the plane firing it) to work. You could make it into a bomb, but you'd be able to get yourself a normal IED much easier and cheaper and work just as well.

Either way, the fact they had it at all is extremely disturbing to begin with. Yea I too would like to know how the hell they managed to obtain it in the first place, and if it was sold to them by someone in Qatar ( due to the Qatar markings) how did they get it into Italy? All of this just sounds so bizarre.

This.

 

[Trunkage]

they don't even have a gouvernment that can control a third of tits official land mass.

Only Mars has third tits

Also, I thought the Libyan Army was the de facto government and the rebels made their own thing in the capital

Edit: Or you probably mean that's the government West recognises

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Well, as Sir Humphrey once wisely said ?If you sell arms, they well inevitably end up in the hands of those with the capacity to buy them? or words to that effect. Although for some reason the use of WhatsApp sort of kills some of the mystique being a freelance arms dealer once had. Now its just like running the least ethical division of Amazon Prime.

 

[Satinavian]

they don't even have a gouvernment that can control a third of tits official land mass.

Only Mars has third tits

Also, I thought the Libyan Army was the de facto government and the rebels made their own thing in the capital

Edit: Or you probably mean that's the government West recognises

A significant part of it is sparsely populated desert no one actually controls. The two main factions sit in the population centers at the coast, while smaller groups sometimes pop up elsewhere. Neither one controlls a third of Libyas area. Population is a different story.

 

[Satinavian]

Since they were able to get it into Italy, how difficult would it be for them to move it through into other EU nations? I am just wondering how frequently arms trafficking is caught doing something like this. I mean not necessarily an air to air missile, as this in itself seems odd to begin with, but other types of arms say rocket launchers, firearms, grenades and such.

It would be pretty easy to move it around in the EU as there are no interior border controls. But why should they? Potential buyers are most likely not in the EU anyway and Italy has lots of ports and still a problem with organized crime.

There are controlls at the EU outer border, but i have no deeper knowledge how effective those are in practice. Trafficker of weapons inside the EU usually get caught when they try to aquire/sell this stuff or when there are police raids for unrelated things, not when they move the weapons.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Ok then. I thought this would be some kind of man-portable missile like a Stinger, but no, that's fucking air-launched ordinance.

Like, what in the actual flying fuck?

 

[CaitSeith]

Could you imagine if it was antifa found doing this? We'd never hear the end of it from pearl-clutching cons. But par for the course with neo-nazi ideology. Albeit more brazen than ever.

But it wasn't antifa; and unless the way that would stop antifa works with neo-nazis, you better stop daydreaming about it and bring up some solutions to reality.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Not gonna lie. If I had the funds, I'd buy one of those just to flex.

But seriously though. If they managed to actually get that thing sold how the fuck was the buyer gonna transport that thing? And if you have a military organized enough to have a plane to strap that to, why not a legit arms trader?

 

[Saelune]

Oh, Nazis are bad? Who knew?

Oh wait, me. I did.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And if you have a military organized enough to have a plane to strap that to, why not a legit arms trader?

Lots of places have fairly well equipped militaries, but find it hard to buy stuff. Iran, for example, got lots of gear from the US, who then decided nobody should sell them anything more (to over-simplify).

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

I'm starting to feel more and more like the general from Mars Attacks. There's an increasingly militarized threat that has proven again and again that is wants to and will kill everything in its way and all the higher ups keep giving them second chances and acting as if it's all just some misunderstanding. A conservative politician here in Germany was shot by a neo nazi just a few weeks ago and only days later we had our former president talking about how we need to be more tolerant towards the right. It's a farce.

 

[Saelune]

I'm starting to feel more and more like the general from Mars Attacks. There's an increasingly militarized threat that has proven again and again that is wants to and will kill everything in its way and all the higher ups keep giving them second chances and acting as if it's all just some misunderstanding. A conservative politician here in Germany was shot by a neo nazi just a few weeks ago and only days later we had our former president talking about how we need to be more tolerant towards the right. It's a farce.

But its only the Nazis who get the second chances too. Its only the racists who get the 'benefit of the doubt', its only the rapists who 'shouldn't have their lives ruined over a mistake'.

 

[Shadowstar38]

And if you have a military organized enough to have a plane to strap that to, why not a legit arms trader?

Lots of places have fairly well equipped militaries, but find it hard to buy stuff. Iran, for example, got lots of gear from the US, who then decided nobody should sell them anything more (to over-simplify).

Foreign policy can be an outright fickle mess