[Politics] "Pregnant Woman Indicted For Baby's Death After Being Shot"

[Cicada 5]

An Alabama woman who was shot in the stomach, resulting in the death of her five-month-old fetus, was indicted on a manslaughter charge by a grand jury. The reason? She started the dispute that led to her getting shot.

Initially, police charged 23-year-old Ebony Jemison for shooting 27-year-old Marshae Jones in December of 2018 outside a Dollar General in Birmingham. But according to AL.com, a police investigation determined that it wasn?t Jemison who was to blame for the shooting?it was Jones, for starting it:

?The investigation showed that the only true victim in this was the unborn baby,?? Pleasant Grove police Lt. Danny Reid said at the time of the shooting. ?It was the mother of the child who initiated and continued the fight which resulted in the death of her own unborn baby.?

Alabama recently passed a near-total ban on abortion, and it?s not unheard of for a woman to face jail time for miscarrying. While shocking, this case clearly delineates in the most gruesome terms what we already know: That women?s lives are not valued.

https://jezebel.com/alabama-woman-indicted-after-someone-else-shoots-her-in-1835892341

The world we live in, people.

 

[Trunkage]

Oh good, I was going to make a thread about this. I understand nothing. This makes no sense

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-27/alabama-woman-indicted-over-the-shooting-death-of-unborn-baby/11258240

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

For fuck sake...I guess they are saying the shooting was self defence so the woman who was shot is to blame? I mean I could see if it was genuine self defence not charging the shooter, but really?

Also, facing jail time for miscarrying? What in the ever loving shit is that? I guess they have to prove it wasn't somehow deliberate? i.e. backstreet/DIY abortion attempt etc? [EDIT: Ok, read the article that referred to, guess that wasn't it]

 

[CrazyGirl17]

...God, I hate people.

 

[Nedoras]

Yeah I saw this story the other day and I still don't know how to process it. "You murdered your unborn child because you made that person shoot you" is comically stupid. I don't really know what else to say. I mean, this is also the same state that's allowing a mega-church to have it's own police force, so I guess it's to be expected? If anything, expect more of this and worse. Fuckin' hell.

 

[Nielas]

For fuck sake...I guess they are saying the shooting was self defence so the woman who was shot is to blame? I mean I could see if it was genuine self defence not charging the shooter, but really?

The legal principle is that the perpetrator of a crime is responsible for all the foreseeable consequences of the crime even if they were unintended. eg. I rob a bank and a customer has a fatal heart attack as a result, I am guilty of murder.

In this case the legal argument is that the woman started a violent fight where a foreseeable outcome was that a bystander would be hurt or killed. The other woman was deemed to shoot in self defense which was also deemed foreseeable. If the shooting was justified self defense then all foreseeable consequences of it fall on the aggressor.

The big move here is that the third party that was shot was the woman's unborn fetus so all of this is overlapped with abortion laws and rights.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

The legal principle is that the perpetrator of a crime is responsible for all the foreseeable *snip*

Ah, I see, thought it might be something like that. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Agema]

The legal principle is that the perpetrator of a crime is responsible for all the foreseeable consequences of the crime even if they were unintended.

#

Yep.

And the end result of these laws added together is this astonishingly fucking stupid charge. But ultimately, it's WAD, innit?

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Hold the damn phone here! What exactly was it that supposedly she did that made employing lethal force justifiable? Did Jones pull a weapon first?

 

[CaitSeith]

So they blamed the pregnant woman not just for provoking someone else into shooting her, but for it resulting in the dead of the baby she was carrying?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU, AMERICA!!!

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Reid added that the fight began over the unborn baby?s father, and that the investigation found that Jamison was defending herself.

I don't see how one would need a gun to defend themselves from a pregnant woman. They don't tend to be very fast or strong, and guns should be the last option for self-defense, used only when there isn't an alternative.

There isn't any information in the article provided as to whether Jones had a weapon or something that caused Jamison to actually need lethal force to defend herself, and without that information any speculation is moot, but my gut feeling says there should always be an alternative to shooting a pregnant woman and at the moment I'm having trouble buying the self-defense angle with the info provided.

 

[Trunkage]

Reid added that the fight began over the unborn baby?s father, and that the investigation found that Jamison was defending herself.

I don't see how one would need a gun to defend themselves from a pregnant woman. They don't tend to be very fast or strong, and guns should be the last option for self-defense, used only when there isn't an alternative.

There isn't any information in the article provided as to whether Jones had a weapon or something that caused Jamison to actually need lethal force to defend herself, and without that information any speculation is moot, but my gut feeling says there should always be an alternative to shooting a pregnant woman and at the moment I'm having trouble buying the self-defense angle with the info provided.

I remember a case last year when a guy was abusing a kid, the dad came out and pushed the guy over for the abuse and the guy shot him while on the ground. It was deemed self defence becuase of the push. There were no other weapons involved, the victim didn't carry anything.

I keep getting told wanting gun laws in America is crazy. I find these situations crazier.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Welcome to the theocracy of America. Separation of church and state HAH!

 

[Abomination]

Hold the damn phone here! What exactly was it that supposedly she did that made employing lethal force justifiable? Did Jones pull a weapon first?

She made the wielder of the firearm fearful (for their life) and thus Patriotism (bang-bang-pew-pew) was not only justified, but mandatory.

 

[Worgen]

Well, you see, as we all know, woman are emotional creatures who are barely capable of even carrying a child, so we need strong men to make sure the are completely subservient to the unborn fetus, as is the proper way. A womans body is not her own, it is owed to the man who is with her or the baby she carries, unless its a girl but only if its born.

 

[Red Sentinel]

Everyone here seems to be on the same page over this. If Lunatic was still here I bet he'd be in support of the charges. Seems like his style.

 

[Trunkage]

Everyone here seems to be on the same page over this. If Lunatic was still here I bet he'd be in support of the charges. Seems like his style.

There are no men involved. There is no clear person in the right

 

[Abomination]

Everyone here seems to be on the same page over this. If Lunatic was still here I bet he'd be in support of the charges. Seems like his style.

There are no men involved. There is no clear person in the right

There's a person with a gun, which can be substituted for a man.

And since there's a dead baby it can't be the person with a gun's fault so it needs to be the person who was shot's fault.

 

[Leg End]

Everyone here seems to be on the same page over this. If Lunatic was still here I bet he'd be in support of the charges. Seems like his style.

Guess someone has to get the target painted on them. Hold my beer.

The legal principle is that the perpetrator of a crime is responsible for all the foreseeable consequences of the crime even if they were unintended. eg. I rob a bank and a customer has a fatal heart attack as a result, I am guilty of murder.

This is the rub. As far as I can tell, Abortion law has absolutely nothing to do with this case, at least directly. The reasoning actually makes a degree of sense, with the woman involved being seen as having forcefully brought a third party into the matter which resulted in their death.

I don't see how one would need a gun to defend themselves from a pregnant woman. They don't tend to be very fast or strong, and guns should be the last option for self-defense, used only when there isn't an alternative.

There isn't any information in the article provided as to whether Jones had a weapon or something that caused Jamison to actually need lethal force to defend herself, and without that information any speculation is moot, but my gut feeling says there should always be an alternative to shooting a pregnant woman and at the moment I'm having trouble buying the self-defense angle with the info provided.

This is the biggest issue. There is so much missing information here, it's hard to make any kind of call. I've looked for anything resembling a proper police report regarding the incident, but I haven't found jack. All we have is an extremely lacking bit of information from quick news reports, and a lot of opinions with not enough fact.

I remember a case last year when a guy was abusing a kid, the dad came out and pushed the guy over for the abuse and the guy shot him while on the ground. It was deemed self defence becuase of the push. There were no other weapons involved, the victim didn't carry anything.

I keep getting told wanting gun laws in America is crazy. I find these situations crazier.

And this just sounds like bullshit on part of law enforcement because committing a crime typically negates self-defense claims. Something is wrong there.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Reid added that the fight began over the unborn baby?s father, and that the investigation found that Jamison was defending herself.

I don't see how one would need a gun to defend themselves from a pregnant woman. They don't tend to be very fast or strong, and guns should be the last option for self-defense, used only when there isn't an alternative.

There isn't any information in the article provided as to whether Jones had a weapon or something that caused Jamison to actually need lethal force to defend herself, and without that information any speculation is moot, but my gut feeling says there should always be an alternative to shooting a pregnant woman and at the moment I'm having trouble buying the self-defense angle with the info provided.

I remember a case last year when a guy was abusing a kid, the dad came out and pushed the guy over for the abuse and the guy shot him while on the ground. It was deemed self defence becuase of the push. There were no other weapons involved, the victim didn't carry anything.

I keep getting told wanting gun laws in America is crazy. I find these situations crazier.

What counts as assault and battery is pretty surprising to me, if you touch an object a person is holding, not even the person, then you can be considered guilty of assault and battery, then they get to defend themselves with a gun and theres no place you can really shoot a person reliably where they arent at risk of bleeding to death. Too bad people can't just punch each other when theres a dispute like they used to.

Now think of all the times during normal human interactions you could be considered guilty of assault and battery and killed with a pistol in America....

This case in particular, also she was 5 months pregnant which makes me wonder, did they really need to shoot her to defend theirselves, or could they just have jogged away at a light pace?