Poll: A Certain Double Standard

[mechashiva77]

This isn't going to end well. Good lord it will not, and yet I still feel compelled to make this post.

A hypocrisy I often see is that it's ok for women to do/like masculine things, but it's not ok for men to do/like feminine things. People will often come to the defense of a woman wearing pants or watching Samurai Jack, but will harp on a man for manicuring his nails or watching My Little Pony (I can understand being put-off by crazy fans, but I am strictly talking about those who chide fans for watching a show aimed at girls). I vehemently disagree with it.

So against my better judgement, I would like to know what you all think about this.

EDIT: There's now an "other" option. (I only have eight slots people, give me a break.)

 

[Basement Cat]

Men and women tend to behave differently from one another. No one will contest that--but gender roles often crop up because of this.


I read an article where a man talked about him and his wife falling into the "classic model" of him working and her staying at home taking care of their new baby. This surprised the HELL out of them both--I think she made more money than him. And they were both 'progressive' or 'modern' thinkers or whatever you call couples who aren't wedded to the classic model.

To the best of my memory their situation came about basically because she enjoyed caring for the baby more than he did and one of them needed to stay at home and take care of the baby--at least early on.

Nothing sweeping here, but it's telling I think. When folks aren't involved in public political stuff and are in the privacy of their own homes and lives 'traditional models' may crop up simply because--GASP--men and women are different!

 

[Ryotknife]

As a general rule of thumb, im against double standards. Although even i will admit there are a few that probably should somewhat exist simply because we live in an imperfect world and some issues are a gray area.

as for gender roles for men....they probably would be better off if they didnt exist. But that is a very LONG process. Even ill admit there are things that go against the grain for me when it comes to disobeying my gender role.

 

[IndomitableSam]

I'd be happier if more guys did 'girly' things like manicures, moistureizing, 'manscaping', cooking, cleaning... all the stuff women are expected to do. If I had a guy who took care of himself really well, loved cooking, got so sappy over puppies and kittens that they babble, and so forth. If a guy could be comfortable enough to really be himself, I'd be a lot happier.

On the flipside, girls are usually fine for this, but I still get some crap because: I'm not married, I don't want kids, I love video games, I'm not married, I don't want kids, I like beer, ... okay, I just finished yoga and am still sick so Im still shaking. I'm tired.

Anyway. There's still a terrible double standard when it comes to women vs. men: the whole marriage/kids thing. It's perfectly fine if a man doesn't want either of those, but a woman is one of the following if she does't want a husband and kids:

(Beware, these are stereotypes and what 'people' think, not what I think)
1. Lesbian
2. Fooling herself
3. Too ugly to find a man
4. Lying to herself (same as above, I know, but it bears repeating)
5. Denying nature/biological clock
6. A career woman aka ice queen/*****
7. Not quite right in the head
8. Damaged goods
9. Spinster/cat lady

... And there's probably a few more. A guy who doesn't want kids is:

1. Straight or gay, both is fine
2. Focused on his career which is perfectley ok
3. Never going to grow up (not generally seen in a bad light)
4. Normal - all men don't need to want kids


And believe me, as a woman around the age of 30, I've been called/told all of the above. Even by family. And total strangers. People truly think there is something deeply, horribly wrong with you if you don't want kids and will tell you so. The nicest thing they say? "Oh, you'll change your mind" "Oh, you'll see sense later on" "Oh, you'll know better later" ... Yeah. Still makes me want to throat-punch them.

 

[Dags90]

On the flipside, girls are usually fine for this, but I still get some crap because: I'm not married, I don't want kids, I love video games, I'm not married, I don't want kids, I like beer, ... okay, I just finished yoga and am still sick so Im still shaking. I'm tired.

You should tell them you can't have kids and get all offended/upset. That'll teach 'em.

One of the easiest way to see this is with names. There are several names which have gone from specifically male to unisex (eg. Taylor, Jamie,, but none which have gone from specifically female to unisex. Some previous specifically male names are now even considered feminine (eg. Dana).

 

[uneek]

Men and women aren't similair. Men are good at certain things, women are good at certain things. Make of that what you will.

Well that statement that has no argument or proof whatsoever sure shut me up.

OT: My basic philosophy is that people should do whatever they want as long as they're capable of it and it doesn't harm anyone(innocent). Because double standards and gender roles are against that, I am against double standards and gender roles.

 

[shrekfan246]

You know, I could see this, actually.

Mostly because I'm a straight male who can seriously state that he would rather watch Moulin Rouge or Les Miserables than a football game.

I don't really think any gender roles should exist, I suppose. I shouldn't get weird looks because I don't like sports, and hell, there are probably just as many girls in my guild in World of Warcraft as there are guys.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

This isn't going to end well. Good lord it will not, and yet I still feel compelled to make this post.

A hypocrisy I often see is that it's ok for women to do/like masculine things, but it's not ok for men to do/like feminine things. People will often come to the defense of a woman wearing pants or watching Samurai Jack, but will harp on a man for manicuring his nails or watching My Little Pony (I can understand being put-off by crazy fans, but I am strictly talking about those who chide fans for watching a show aimed at girls). I vehemently disagree with it.

So against my better judgement, I would like to know what you all think about this.

You're half-right. Yes, I think it is less socially acceptable (at least in the Western world) for a man to be 'unmanly' than it is for a woman to be 'unwomanly'. However, it's not a hypocrisy, because in both instances the oppressors are more often than not, men. It's not a case of 'Women are enforcing oppressive gender roles on men now, where once men enforced oppressive gender roles on women', but more 'Some men are trying to enforce oppressive gender roles on both women and other men, and for some reason the other men are more inclined to lie down and take it than women are'.

 

[Ryotknife]

I'd be happier if more guys did 'girly' things like manicures, moistureizing, 'manscaping', cooking, cleaning... all the stuff women are expected to do. If I had a guy who took care of himself really well, loved cooking, got so sappy over puppies and kittens that they babble, and so forth. If a guy could be comfortable enough to really be himself, I'd be a lot happier.

On the flipside, girls are usually fine for this, but I still get some crap because: I'm not married, I don't want kids, I love video games, I'm not married, I don't want kids, I like beer, ... okay, I just finished yoga and am still sick so Im still shaking. I'm tired.

Anyway. There's still a terrible double standard when it comes to women vs. men: the whole marriage/kids thing. It's perfectly fine if a man doesn't want either of those, but a woman is one of the following if she does't want a husband and kids:

(Beware, these are stereotypes and what 'people' think, not what I think)
1. Lesbian
2. Fooling herself
3. Too ugly to find a man
4. Lying to herself (same as above, I know, but it bears repeating)
5. Denying nature/biological clock
6. A career woman aka ice queen/*****
7. Not quite right in the head
8. Damaged goods
9. Spinster/cat lady

... And there's probably a few more. A guy who doesn't want kids is:

1. Straight or gay, both is fine
2. Focused on his career which is perfectley ok
3. Never going to grow up (not generally seen in a bad light)
4. Normal - all men don't need to want kids


And believe me, as a woman around the age of 30, I've been called/told all of the above. Even by family. And total strangers. People truly think there is something deeply, horribly wrong with you if you don't want kids and will tell you so. The nicest thing they say? "Oh, you'll change your mind" "Oh, you'll see sense later on" "Oh, you'll know better later" ... Yeah. Still makes me want to throat-punch them.

ehh...if a guy doesnt want marriage/kids he is viewed as an immature adult who doesnt know what is good for him. Generally something that society expects a woman to eventually come around and "fix" him of that immaturity. It is not viewed in a terrible light because society expects women to "train" men to be something remotely close to civilized. Or put it another way, society views men as having an IRRATIONAL fear of marriage/kids.

Not nearly as bad as women who dont want either, whom society views as some kind of horrible monster.

Although it seems to be improving. I mean, the typical age when people get married and have kids is significantly older than in my parents generation, which was basically right out of high school. Granted these improvements crawl at the speed of generations, but still.

Thankfully my parents are not pushing me TOO much to have kids (although they just want (more) grandkids. They are not doing it for my sake). My older sister on the other hand...

 

[Eddy-16]

Anyway, to add more fuel to the fire, isn't it interesting how a guy that sleeps around is a "player", and yet a girl that sleeps around is a "slut".

A key that can open many locks is a fucking awesome key, on the other hand a lock that is opened by many keys is a shitty lock.

EDIT: Just realized that I didn't talk about the the topic.
OT: Erm Gender roles are bad I suppose, people shouldn't be judged for doing things they enjoy yadda yadda.

 

[Rawne1980]

I tend to have a bit of banter with a few male friends of mine that do generally "feminine" things. One of them has a whole collection of pink tops and the other likes to go to health spa's and have facials (hurr hurr ... yes I giggled when he said he likes facials because i'm that mature) and the like.

But folk do what folk want to do and i'm not going to go into full abuse mode due to people liking to do things I wouldn't normally associate with that gender.

I mean take my kids (literally, take them ... they do nothing but talk ... i'm joking, don't panic) my youngest daughter said "she wants to be like daddy" and at 7 year old has taken up Jeet Kune Do (funnily enough that's the age I started) and wants to join the army yet my son loves knitting, my wife taught him. I won't call him for it because I can't knit for shit and he's only 8 so fair do's to him. Plus he has aspirations of being a chef which is strange because no one in our house can cook (although i'm not going to pull the gender thing on the kitchen role seeing as some of the top chefs in the world are male .... and I am slightly jealous, i'd love to be able to cook like some of them do).

My step daughter and second youngest daughter are also tomboys and both love football. My daughter plays for the school team and my step daughter used to and they are both better than me (although, admittedly, i'm crap so that's not hard). The both love motorbikes too which is something else I know nothing about.

My other daughter is the only "typical" type in the house and loves all things girly .... and UFC.

Technically i'm the only actual "stereotype" in the house. I drink beer, watch sports, scratch my balls and have happy dreams about my muscles.

My wife swears like a trooper .. more than me (and that is saying something) and doesn't do much in the "girly" stakes either. When we got married she wore a white suit because "fuck dresses" were her exact words.

She never wears skirts only jeans and the only "girly" items of clothing she owns are a french maid outfit and a nurses uniform (not her work one, that's not very sexy) but that's another story and one for adults only.

 

[mechashiva77]

Anyway, to add more fuel to the fire, isn't it interesting how a guy that sleeps around is a "player", and yet a girl that sleeps around is a "slut".

A key that can open many locks is a fucking awesome key, on the other hand a lock that is opened by many keys is a shitty lock.

EDIT: Just realized that I didn't talk about the the topic.
OT: Erm Gender roles are bad I suppose, people shouldn't be judged for doing things they enjoy yadda yadda.

So what are we not supposed to have sex ever? To take the metaphor to the extreme, say that all women take that metaphor to heart and turn down every single guy because having sex is a bad thing. The metaphor implies that we're SUPPOSED to be hard to get, we're SUPPOSED to deny guys over and over again, but then that makes us prudes instead.

 

[Eddy-16]

So what are we not supposed to have sex ever?

By all means have sex whenever and with who ever you want, I was just posting a joke just don't sleep around if you don't want to be called a slut I guess?

CAPTCHA: Big nose, Well now I feel insulted.

 

[mechashiva77]

So what are we not supposed to have sex ever?

By all means have sex whenever and with who ever you want, I was just posting a joke just don't sleep around if you don't want to be called a slut I guess?

CAPTCHA: Big nose, Well now I feel insulted.

So why do guys get to sleep around without being called a slut but we do? Why aren't we allowed to enjoy it as much as they do? It's not like we're less careful.

 

[Ryotknife]

So what are we not supposed to have sex ever?

By all means have sex whenever and with who ever you want, I was just posting a joke just don't sleep around if you don't want to be called a slut I guess?

CAPTCHA: Big nose, Well now I feel insulted.

So why do guys get to sleep around without being called a slut but we do? Why aren't we allowed to enjoy it as much as they do? It's not like we're less careful.

because society views men as being slaves to their sexual drives. You dont hear jokes about women having their brain in their pants.

EDIT:Not endorsing it or anything. Also "players" are viewed by society as immature/"missing the true meaning of life". Among a certain sub-set of men they may be adored, but not society as a whole.

on the flip side, a man who turns down sex is viewed as a freak.

(sorry Eddy)