I Reaaaaaaaly hate campers in multiplayer a reason why i only play a few times a mounth. I really wish campers had some kind of weakness e.g location shown, weaker weapon e.tc what do you think?
Poll: A game against camping
- Thread starter Ryanrulez5
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Sniping is basically camping, and I'll be damned if I let you say anything bad about sniping.
"Camping" is really just using superior map knowledge and positioning to gain an advantage. It's tactical thinking. Not everything has to boil down to who bunny hopped better while rolling their heads over the fire button.
"Camping" is really just using superior map knowledge and positioning to gain an advantage. It's tactical thinking. Not everything has to boil down to who bunny hopped better while rolling their heads over the fire button.
It is one thing to protect a valuable asset, and another entirely to camp a spawn so that your opponents can't even get into the game. Most Battlefield servers I play on will boot you if you spawn camp, I'm okay with that because I find no enjoyment in spawn camping. Finding a hiding spot and defending a capture point or MCOM is okay, denying a team any chance of playing the game is not.BloatedGuppy said:
As always, it depends. A sniper, using a sniper rifle, sitting in a sniper's perch or some other location designed for sniping is hardly a bad form of camping.
If you're playing a fast paced game on a fast paced map and you want to be patient and wait in a good location to catch people off guard, that's also pretty fine.
If you roll up in a hulking tank and sit front of a spawn location, I think that's pushing it.
I don't play enough shooters to think of a really good example of bad camping.
If you're playing a fast paced game on a fast paced map and you want to be patient and wait in a good location to catch people off guard, that's also pretty fine.
If you roll up in a hulking tank and sit front of a spawn location, I think that's pushing it.
I don't play enough shooters to think of a really good example of bad camping.
There is only one type of camping that is inexcusable and utterly bullshit; and that is spawn camping. All other forms of camping are fair game as it's about map knowledge and can be countered by someone who uses their brain to flush the camper out of their spot.
Spawn camping though, whether it's simply bad game/map design or the team just really hammering it to the opposition, is bullshit and you should be kicked from the server if you do something like that. It's pretty much a "hitting below the belt" kind of offense that degrades the match and doesn't give the people who just spawned much of a chance.
There are games that remedy this problem in one way or another thankfully, but when there isn't, then the game starts to lose a lot of its fun factor.
Spawn camping though, whether it's simply bad game/map design or the team just really hammering it to the opposition, is bullshit and you should be kicked from the server if you do something like that. It's pretty much a "hitting below the belt" kind of offense that degrades the match and doesn't give the people who just spawned much of a chance.
There are games that remedy this problem in one way or another thankfully, but when there isn't, then the game starts to lose a lot of its fun factor.
A while ago, my friend thought up a great new game mode for MW3 and I helped him with it a tiny bit.
Here it is:
For all intents and purposes, this game mode would be the same as TDM, Demo, any other game mode, except your movement is different.
If you stay in one position for more than 3 seconds, you get a giant beacon thrown over your head that everyone can see. The more time you stay still, the longer the beacon stays over your head.
If you don't want to have a beacon over your head, you have to keep moving, thus making games more flowing and entertaining.
We thought about making the beacon instant if you stop moving, but you may be throwing a grenade into a room, be recovering from just killing 2 guys, or taking a moment to think "ok where to next?". 3 seconds seems the ideal time limit you can stay static, because after that, you are lighting a camp fire and roasting marshmallows.
Another problem we thought of, is people either playing just within that 3 second time limit, or exploiting it.
A player could camp one position for 2 seconds, then move to another and so forth. Or they might be moving juuuuust enough so they don't get the beacon over their heads. The best counter for this that we could think of, is that you have to move X amount of distance for the game to say "ok, you're moving so you don't get the beacon". This would need some tweaking and testing to make sure it works the way we want it to.
By "exploiting it" I mean 1 person gets the beacon (say a flag carrier or a bomb carrier), naturally attracting enemies to him, which could lead them to a trap, other campers who are moving enough to not get the beacon, or away from the actual bomb carrier. This seems like strategy to me and can't be avoided. Kind of like grabbing the flag in lots of games puts a big "HEY I AM RIGHT HERE" beacon on you already.
So, what do you think of my friend's anti-camping game mode?
Edit: The camping I hate is the kind where the enemy team is posted up in un-attackable positions, locking down all avenues of attack, and essentially grinding the game to a halt or a bloody farming spree. That isn't fun at all. If they wanted to shoot cannon fodder, they should play Duck Hunt.
Edit: <url=http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/995751-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3/61305552>Here is a link to my friend's original idea if you wanna see it.
Here it is:
For all intents and purposes, this game mode would be the same as TDM, Demo, any other game mode, except your movement is different.
If you stay in one position for more than 3 seconds, you get a giant beacon thrown over your head that everyone can see. The more time you stay still, the longer the beacon stays over your head.
If you don't want to have a beacon over your head, you have to keep moving, thus making games more flowing and entertaining.
We thought about making the beacon instant if you stop moving, but you may be throwing a grenade into a room, be recovering from just killing 2 guys, or taking a moment to think "ok where to next?". 3 seconds seems the ideal time limit you can stay static, because after that, you are lighting a camp fire and roasting marshmallows.
Another problem we thought of, is people either playing just within that 3 second time limit, or exploiting it.
A player could camp one position for 2 seconds, then move to another and so forth. Or they might be moving juuuuust enough so they don't get the beacon over their heads. The best counter for this that we could think of, is that you have to move X amount of distance for the game to say "ok, you're moving so you don't get the beacon". This would need some tweaking and testing to make sure it works the way we want it to.
By "exploiting it" I mean 1 person gets the beacon (say a flag carrier or a bomb carrier), naturally attracting enemies to him, which could lead them to a trap, other campers who are moving enough to not get the beacon, or away from the actual bomb carrier. This seems like strategy to me and can't be avoided. Kind of like grabbing the flag in lots of games puts a big "HEY I AM RIGHT HERE" beacon on you already.
So, what do you think of my friend's anti-camping game mode?
Edit: The camping I hate is the kind where the enemy team is posted up in un-attackable positions, locking down all avenues of attack, and essentially grinding the game to a halt or a bloody farming spree. That isn't fun at all. If they wanted to shoot cannon fodder, they should play Duck Hunt.
Edit: <url=http://m.gamefaqs.com/boards/995751-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3/61305552>Here is a link to my friend's original idea if you wanna see it.
All you have to do is play games with objective modes and not play team deathmatch so someone camping only hurts their own team because if one team has less players going after the objective point, the other team has the advantage then.
It's really only because of people bitching about spawn camping from old-school shooters that almost every shooter has a bullshit spawning system with moving spawns (like COD). The whole strategy of team deathmatch is gone with moving spawns because taking over key map points is longer important when the other team can now be spawning from behind you. A spawn system should be simple, each team spawns at opposite ends the map and the spawns don't move so you know the general direction of where the enemy is coming from.
There's nothing wrong with spawn camping, it's your team's fault for letting the other team push up to your spawn. Pretty much every objective based game mode requires pushing the other team back from the objective point. If the other team is playing badly enough, then they will get pushed back to their spawn. Almost every game mode in a shooter on it's most basic level is a game of tug-of-war, the most basic goal is to push the other team back (even in team deathmatch so you can take and hold key map locations). If the team is poor enough to let the other team push them back to their spawn, then it's their own fault. I agree that when you spawn you should have some kind of advantage; for example, in Metal Gear Online, you spawn and are invincible for 5 or so seconds but once you aim your gun, you give up your invincibility.-Seraph- said:
It's really only because of people bitching about spawn camping from old-school shooters that almost every shooter has a bullshit spawning system with moving spawns (like COD). The whole strategy of team deathmatch is gone with moving spawns because taking over key map points is longer important when the other team can now be spawning from behind you. A spawn system should be simple, each team spawns at opposite ends the map and the spawns don't move so you know the general direction of where the enemy is coming from.
If you don't like campers go play Section 8 Prejudice, campers will have the entire enemy team literally falling on their heads... Fucking awesome spawn system btw
Shame the 360 version is basically dead, I think the PC version's servers are still alive though.
OT: Spawn camping is the only inherantly bad camping, except when it's taken to its absolute extreme then it's fucking hilarious. See MW2 on Rust + the infinite clip size for everyone glitch. Good times
Shame the 360 version is basically dead, I think the PC version's servers are still alive though.
OT: Spawn camping is the only inherantly bad camping, except when it's taken to its absolute extreme then it's fucking hilarious. See MW2 on Rust + the infinite clip size for everyone glitch. Good times
Not moving for 3 seconds is a bit short, what could be done instead is after 2-3 kills if you don't move outside a certain location, an area marker and bounty is placed on the camper (much like the bounty system in Homefront MP).Torrasque said:
The camper's play-style now becomes a liability for his team: people are now aware of the general area he's camping in (no more surprise) and there is a large bonus for killing him to benefit the team (more $ or points, camper has a longer dead time before respawning when killed).
Spawn-camping should be allowed if the spawn is like TF2 where it is inaccessible by the opposing team (as long as idiot teammates don't open the door), that way they can sit in spawn and build an uber to bust said spawn-camp. And if the team doesn't have a medic, than they deserve to be spawn-camped, as they are lacking in the teamwork. On a CP or PL map, coordinating enough to get to a spawn camp takes some work after all.
I avoid games with random spawns like COD because it often means a couple seconds for you to get your bearings and there's probably no 5 second invulnerability. I prefer ones with an actual base to get myself oriented.
3 seconds? Hell, that's no where near long enough? I've stopped, because I've heard someone creeping up on me, turned - hidden and waited, then shot them. Are you saying that's camping?Torrasque said:
Sometimes I've even waited for a few seconds to let a fire fight play out so I can sneak past to get a better firing position and then shoot onto the enemy team.
I'm not a slow player either, I'm an agressive player. If you heard me on BF3..."Push forward! Keep the momentum going!" I don't think I've lost a game of conquest on operation metro...
even "spawn camping"...Sometimes we've managed to push the enemy so far back, that our frontline is their spawn. We don't fall back, we don't stop and let them out, we hammer them and win.
Maybe that's just me though - sometimes being stationary is also useful for being more mobile. If that makes sense?
It might be your teams fault, but it isn't your fault personally, considering the vast majority of online gaming is random people on random teams. Spawn camping when the entire team is getting destroyed at their base is lame, but it's an inevitable result of team imbalance. Usually games account for this with team scrambles, and if not it's not a problem anyway because everyone on the losing side will leave and in a couple of games time the influx of new players will have balanced things out.Phoenixmgs said:
The bullshit spawn campers are the ones who come into the enemy base regardless of where the front lines are, steal a tank and sit there waiting for people to spawn. It's just lame tactics and i have no sympathy for people practicing this behaviour being kicked.
As for the usual camping, it's only ever been a problem for me when i'm new at the game, or for the first 1-2 times i get killed by that camper. I can't remember being in a game where i've felt completely powerless to campers.
Really though it depends how you define camping. I myself am probably guilty of camping to a lot of guys on this forum. I'll rarely sit in one place for that long, but i'll happily hole up in a house or building or whatever structure and hold it for a while, i don't really feel that this is particularly lame because i can still be outplayed and killed by anyone who wants to try, there will always be plenty of ways to clear me out. That and i'm actively searching out kills from people outside, rather than sitting in a corner and waiting for the kills to come to me.
The lame style of camping to me are the people who literally sit in one corner of a room, waiting for someone to come through the door so they can be shot in the back time and time again. It's lame and i have plenty of contempt for these sorts of people, but i've never played a game where i've felt that i'm powerless to stop them, usually i can just go through a different door, use a grenade, use a bit of teamwork, or just ignore them entirely
agreed, especially on the 2nd part.BloatedGuppy said:
really can't say much else...unless it's like 5 guys hidden in the top corners of a room all with shotty's and noobtube's, i can't really say much bad about camping..
We set it at three seconds because that is the standard time it takes for a sniper to set up shop, get a no scope going, and/or have his defences down. It could be longer, but we haven't tested this game mode at all so /shrugDectomax said:
I know what you mean when you hear someone and just wait for them to come your way. Even though footsteps are insanely quiet in MW3, I can still soundwhore in S&D games and the occasional TDM when there is a lull in the gunfire. Unfortunately, our "I'll just wait here and let him come to me since I know where he is and where he's going to be" is technically camping. It isn't a full campsite set up with a clothes line and fire pit, but you have your tent set up and have your feet up. It would take a lot of fine tuning to get this game mode set up to punish real campers like it is supposed to, but this is just theorycrafting atm.
I also know what you mean when you can get the enemy trapped because they are that bad, or you find a good headglitch to post at and decimate the 5-6 enemies you know are coming down the hallway. I know when I play S&D against a team that is actually formidable, I'll stick close to an ally and we'll check each other's corners; I push up checking corners, find a good spot to hold, then he pushes up past me. While I am technically camping as my buddy moves up, it isn't the camping this game mode is designed to punish.
I once got into an infinite score limit TDM match on Rust. With 30-odd players running around. There were so many of us the only way to survive spawning was to mash the melee button and run like crazy away from it, hosing down the spawn point with automatic fire. That was the most fun I've ever had in online multiplayer, and I played on there for over two hours in the end.The Wykydtron said:
OT: Personally, I don't think camping is an inherently bad tactic; hell, their location is given to you by the killcam in CoD. If someone is squirreled away in a corner of the map, then go and find them and take them out. I've never understood why some people insist that the only legitimate way to play online is to be constantly moving.
So you want to punish a team for playing better, and smarter, than the other team? Where in the heck is the fairness in that idea? If the game has un-assailable positions or bad spawns, then it is the result of bad map design. Its not the player's fault for recognizing the best spots on the map, nor is it "camping" when you choose to control them rather than run around like a chicken with your head cut off. Besides, if they are staying in one position why do they need a big arrow above their head? You should already know where they are, if they keep killing you. If you don't want to die, don't go there, simple as that.Torrasque said:
I can't think of any popular FPS that has truly un-assailable positions. There are always flanking routes or indirect means of attack, if you are willing to actually use them instead of running straight into a kill zone. If you are getting locked down, then work with your team and break the lock. If you can't do that, then the other team is better and deserves to win.
I never understood this fascination with handicapping good players or winning teams. You wanna close a skill gap? Practice and get better at the game, and maybe next time you grab those positions before the other team does .
Camping is fine. The people who camp (not all campers) with sniper rifles can be useless to the team though. Camp more than 500 meters away from objective, get around 1 kill every 10 minutes and joins an attacking squad (to probably make the team lose or something). If you can't help the team out effectively, then move in a bit. If that doesn't help, well, sniping may not be for you.
I have no problem if the other team camp, since if it is not exploiting something and allowed in the game, then it should be okay.
I don't like spawncamping though, unless the game gives you 5 second invincibility if you spawn at your base.
I have no problem if the other team camp, since if it is not exploiting something and allowed in the game, then it should be okay.
I don't like spawncamping though, unless the game gives you 5 second invincibility if you spawn at your base.