Poll: A Rant About Emulation!
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What is the argument against piracy other than lack of support for the developer? I also want to hear some self-excoriation for your admission to piracy earlier in your life, which you claim there is "no good excuse".racrevel said:
I would say yes. The justification usually made in this case is "I would totally buy the game if I could, but I can't, so piracy is okay". Unless you had a different justification, you're probably morally obligated to buy.FoolKiller said:
That really is all I want for Christmas.faefrost said:
That and a bag of chocolate fudge-ems'.
I was making a comparison on how we can get feature films on home video, even really old ones. I'm fully aware that it's not digital emulation.zidine100 said:
But if you want to get super-powered technical and use my freakishly powerful film geek brain...
In 1941 Citizen Kane was released on film stock. The film was shown on a projector at 24 frames per second in cinemas.
When you view the film on the most recent release on Blu-Ray it is being shown on a MPEG-4 AVC codec at a data rate of 30.65 Megabytes per second at a frame rate of 23.97, though we just call that 24p. The Blu-Ray release stays true to the original 1.37:1 aspect ratio, however the resolution of the film is downsized to 1080p. Because this is data, the Blu-Ray player is digitally presenting you an imitation of what the real film looks like. The quality of the original 4K resolution is lost slightly because of the limitations of the Blu-Ray format.
Emulation is defined as imitation, hence Blu-Ray emulates real film.
Nice hidden passive-aggressive high-horse riding there.V da Mighty Taco said:I take it I'm alone in avoiding using emulators for this very reason then - it seems to similar to piracy to me for me to do it. As much as I'd like to run Turok 2 on a system that can actually handle it, my massive insistence on adhering to my morals causes me to just stick with playing it on the N64.Adeptus Aspartem said:Is this a thing now? Being anti-something-that-never-ever-was-a-problem?
This thread is literally the first time i heard anyone in rl & on the internet say something negative about emulating - except raging that the emulator doesnt work
You really think you're doing something morally wrong by playing a game you own.. on a diffrent system it was made on?
Mkay.
Back when i was 13? I used to pirate games and movies, was being poor a good excuse? No, did i know it was wrong? Yes, i just ignored all the warnings and used excuses to cover it i could have lived without them, but once i got a job i started buying all the games i once downloaded, i now own all the dvds i downloaded, Music not so much as i dont listen to it, i own maybe 2 cd's? My iphone is filled with my gfs music (she buys cds i dont) and the escapist podcastsVeylon said:
At most on my computer i have a few tv series that havent been released on dvd in aus yet, once they are released on dvd i purchase it, if i dont have the money i dont play the game, its not that hard to shell out $2 - $30 on an old game for a few hours play, i recently did it for kirby and banjo kazooie, I could have pirated bioshock with the excuse of im broke atm or some other crap but im fine waiting..
The last thing i emulated was.. I cant remember, i coppied my xbox games to my xbox and thats about it since i was about 15ish
Emulation is fine IMO. Most people think thats its piracy outright but thats incorrect. If I pull a rom off of my physical copy then its still mine its just converted into a file. No sales were lost because I originally bought the game. Some people may argue that you should buy the game for everything you play it on but thats at best unrealistic and at worst supporting the idea of companies nickle and diming us even more. It also doesnt touch on the problem that I literally cant buy Xcom: Enemy unknown (1993) for the Xbox 360, the PS3, the PS Vita, the 3ds, etc, etc. So if I want it on my Vita I have to make some kind of emulation happen
Even games like Descent (one of my other favorite games of all times) that were PC games require Emulation in the form of DOSbox because current windows systems dont have DOS (and Ill never understand why because I find it a much better system for searching for files then windows 7's search feature).
At the end of the day, I bought the game so Im allowed to do whatever the hell I want to with it. Its my property and if I choose to convert it into a file to play on something else then thats my choice and my time/money going into that.
Would it serve to have companies rerelease older games in current formats? Absolutely. More sales is more profit and maybe, just maybe, if companies started making money off more of their older titles publishers like EA wouldnt need 5 million sales to break even on a game like Dead space 3
Edit: There is one more argument to be made and thats regarding history. Gaming is roughly only 30 years old by now but one day people like me are going to die and with us gaming history. Emulation is going to be necessary for my children, their childrends children, etc to know where gaming came from and how it grew into whatever form it'll take in the future.
Maybe this is a pipe dream but I would personally like to see a huge museum with consoles and PCs lined up ready to play all sorts of games so that people can see where we can from and the huge variety of games out there. Not to mention the art behind it all
Even games like Descent (one of my other favorite games of all times) that were PC games require Emulation in the form of DOSbox because current windows systems dont have DOS (and Ill never understand why because I find it a much better system for searching for files then windows 7's search feature).
At the end of the day, I bought the game so Im allowed to do whatever the hell I want to with it. Its my property and if I choose to convert it into a file to play on something else then thats my choice and my time/money going into that.
Would it serve to have companies rerelease older games in current formats? Absolutely. More sales is more profit and maybe, just maybe, if companies started making money off more of their older titles publishers like EA wouldnt need 5 million sales to break even on a game like Dead space 3
Edit: There is one more argument to be made and thats regarding history. Gaming is roughly only 30 years old by now but one day people like me are going to die and with us gaming history. Emulation is going to be necessary for my children, their childrends children, etc to know where gaming came from and how it grew into whatever form it'll take in the future.
Maybe this is a pipe dream but I would personally like to see a huge museum with consoles and PCs lined up ready to play all sorts of games so that people can see where we can from and the huge variety of games out there. Not to mention the art behind it all
I think emulation is pretty inevitable, for the preservation of games for the future. There was an episode of Extra Credits that talked about this--basically, filmmakers have the ability to view old films from the late 1800s and early 1900s to learn about the beginnings of film. Visual artists can look at paintings and sculptures and pottery from ancient times. Writers can read translations of the oldest stories we have documented on paper. Backwards compatibility isn't an issue with any of those things. Regardless of how old they are, there are always ways to continue to view them, and copyright is never an issue (except in the case of some films).
But with games? Our history is essentially getting rolled up with every console generation. If an Atari or NES game isn't ported to a newer console, if you can't get ahold of that specific hardware to run that ROM that was made at that specific time, it's gone. Once all the copies of the games and working models of the console die, the game is dead with it. Legally, anyway.
So that's where emulations step in. They preserve the games and allow future generations to play them and see what game design was about back in ye olden days. Just as people who go to film school study the earliest films, it's important that people who study to be game designers play these games. And it's also important for just anybody interested in old games and films to be able to have access to that history and experience it for themselves. Video games aren't going away anytime soon, and they are constantly exploring new possibilities and whether or not people like it are inevitably becoming established as a form of art.
Personally, I think it does a greater disservice to the people who made the game to let it die out and never be played again, than to put it on the Internet as an emulation so that people can continue to play it. I think it's safe to say people who were making Commodore 64 and Atari games weren't expecting to still be making money from those games in 2013. But for people to still have the opportunity to play them and experience their works so far into the future? I don't think even they could have predicted that would become possible.
But with games? Our history is essentially getting rolled up with every console generation. If an Atari or NES game isn't ported to a newer console, if you can't get ahold of that specific hardware to run that ROM that was made at that specific time, it's gone. Once all the copies of the games and working models of the console die, the game is dead with it. Legally, anyway.
So that's where emulations step in. They preserve the games and allow future generations to play them and see what game design was about back in ye olden days. Just as people who go to film school study the earliest films, it's important that people who study to be game designers play these games. And it's also important for just anybody interested in old games and films to be able to have access to that history and experience it for themselves. Video games aren't going away anytime soon, and they are constantly exploring new possibilities and whether or not people like it are inevitably becoming established as a form of art.
Personally, I think it does a greater disservice to the people who made the game to let it die out and never be played again, than to put it on the Internet as an emulation so that people can continue to play it. I think it's safe to say people who were making Commodore 64 and Atari games weren't expecting to still be making money from those games in 2013. But for people to still have the opportunity to play them and experience their works so far into the future? I don't think even they could have predicted that would become possible.
If it's obsolete then it should be fine.
Of course we now have places like GOG giving another brilliant option. But if you want to play Crash Bandicoot 1 or FF7 or something like that and your 'station doesn't run the game then I certainly would.
Of course we now have places like GOG giving another brilliant option. But if you want to play Crash Bandicoot 1 or FF7 or something like that and your 'station doesn't run the game then I certainly would.
I like emulation. It helps people without the money (could be hundreds of dollars) play some of the old games.
There are a lot of classics not on any virtual stores that, for historical reasons and for the appreciation of our hobby, I think many gamers should experience.
Furthermore, if you want to record a game for a Let's Play a console game you own, emulating is a very continent option unless you own an expensive PVR.
There are a lot of classics not on any virtual stores that, for historical reasons and for the appreciation of our hobby, I think many gamers should experience.
Furthermore, if you want to record a game for a Let's Play a console game you own, emulating is a very continent option unless you own an expensive PVR.
Fun fact: If you've opened an old game you bought on Steam or gog.com and a little box called "DOSBox" appears at the same time as the game you're launching, YOU JUST USED EMULATION.
I can't imagine who would be against that.
Also, I regularly recommend games like Sam and Max Hit The Road, Day of the Tentacle, and the like. You need to run them on DOSBox, or even better, SCUMMVM, both of which are emulators. Emulation is good!
I can't imagine who would be against that.
Also, I regularly recommend games like Sam and Max Hit The Road, Day of the Tentacle, and the like. You need to run them on DOSBox, or even better, SCUMMVM, both of which are emulators. Emulation is good!
They're not another option, because they run all the oldies on DOSBox... an emulator.CardinalPiggles said:
Seriously. Go open an early 90s game you bought from gog.com, and you'll see a second window that looks like a command prompt pop up. That's the emulator.
The Escapist community. Avid against piracy, but when it's for emulation, hell yeah it's alright.
I myself use emulators, don't think I'm knocking it, I just find it amusing how contradictory this community can be.
I myself use emulators, don't think I'm knocking it, I just find it amusing how contradictory this community can be.
The reason why is because Emulation does not equal piracy. You can take the files off of anything and emulate it to play on another system and theres nothing wrong with that. Its your property so you can do whatever you want with it. People are even more for regular emulation where a company takes an old game and puts it on something else. Kind of how Atlus had Persona 4 on PS2 originally but recently rereleased it on the PS Vitaklaynexas3 said:
That kind of stuff is not piracy and still uses emulators
I have a collection of ROMs for 4th-6th gen consoles. I have a rule where a game has to be 10 years old before I'll get a ROM of it.
Now if legal emulations exist, like SEGA's PC port classic collections on STEAM, I buy those.
1)These games have been out-of-print for a decade or longer & cannot be purchased new.
2)I'd have to buy both a region 1 & region 2 of each console, & that would take up a lot of physical space. Emulators barely take up digital space.
3)Those consoles are also OOP, & some of them tend to break very easily & you can't just get replacement parts.
4)The developers aren't still selling these for profit, so you can only get them secondhand.
5)Physical 2edhand cartridges also take up a lot of real world space.
6)Collectors value makes getting some physical releases of old games cost prohibitive.
7)Some are unofficial fan translated games, some are ROM hacks that make whole new games, some are unreleased prototypes/vaporware.
8)Sometimes the emulations run better on a PC than they did their own consoles. Fan bugfixes I guess.
Now if legal emulations exist, like SEGA's PC port classic collections on STEAM, I buy those.
1)These games have been out-of-print for a decade or longer & cannot be purchased new.
2)I'd have to buy both a region 1 & region 2 of each console, & that would take up a lot of physical space. Emulators barely take up digital space.
3)Those consoles are also OOP, & some of them tend to break very easily & you can't just get replacement parts.
4)The developers aren't still selling these for profit, so you can only get them secondhand.
5)Physical 2edhand cartridges also take up a lot of real world space.
6)Collectors value makes getting some physical releases of old games cost prohibitive.
7)Some are unofficial fan translated games, some are ROM hacks that make whole new games, some are unreleased prototypes/vaporware.
8)Sometimes the emulations run better on a PC than they did their own consoles. Fan bugfixes I guess.
Sorry, I guess I should clarify, free emulation. I assumed that that was just an unspoken guideline.lacktheknack said:
i grew up with Nintendo and i have most of my Snes games bought from my Wii but fuck you Nintendo for not giving back Yoshi's Island! the best platformer of all time, right next to DK2 of course.
most of the emulator games i have are games that are impossible to either play now, find or download legally through Wii. so i feel like i have a right. i didnt grow up with a PS1 so theres no games besides Final Fantasy 7,8,9 and i have the physical copy of them i just play them on my PS2
what i dont agree with is cracking or stealing/selling recent games, making emulators for Wii/360/PS3/PC games where it actually hurts the company. i dont think downloading a free Rom of Super Mario World for the Snes is going to hurt Nintendo even a tiny bit. so go nuts, jus dont touch anything over 2006 or something. i dont know.
most of the emulator games i have are games that are impossible to either play now, find or download legally through Wii. so i feel like i have a right. i didnt grow up with a PS1 so theres no games besides Final Fantasy 7,8,9 and i have the physical copy of them i just play them on my PS2
what i dont agree with is cracking or stealing/selling recent games, making emulators for Wii/360/PS3/PC games where it actually hurts the company. i dont think downloading a free Rom of Super Mario World for the Snes is going to hurt Nintendo even a tiny bit. so go nuts, jus dont touch anything over 2006 or something. i dont know.
Emulation can never be as perfect as playing the game on the original hardware, so it will always be flawed. And in terms of control, a PC's peripherals are not what the game was designed to use, so some parts in games can be hard to control. Plus, it's fun to collect the original hardware and use cartridges and stuff (Hu-cards are awesome!)